Are you happy with your 811 OTA

W

WeeJavaDude

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SimpleSimon said:
As for computers, that's what I do, so every one I build works A-OK with the exception of infant mortality component failures, and those are quite rare nowadays.

I was not including computers that a person builds. I built my own and even with that I had problems with a video editing card. (Long Story and it was bleeding edge at the time) I was referring to pre-loaded computers one would buy at a computer store.

The examples I gave ran over a long period of time and there are some of the experiences I have had with consumer electronics. Some of them have been features that have been half baked in my eyes and reliability issues.

Guess you are luckier than me with your electronic purchases but you still support my point from what I can see. Since you are also in the software field, I am sure you understand the Dish model. I think they are being too agreesive on releasing products but none the less it is a model.

The point is that I was taken exception to Gary's post claiming all his electronic purchases being perfect or near perfect. Being that he is in the Audio/visual consumer electronics field, based on my experience I am very surprised at his claim.
 
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WeeJavaDude

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GaryPen said:
Actually, WJD. You sound rather unlucky with your purchases. I would venture to say that Simon's and my experiences are the more common.

BTW, I was not including PC's in my definition of consumer electronics.

And, you really have to stop dwelling on the word "perfect". I don't expect perfection. But I do expect something close to it. The 811 as it is, six to nine months after release (and apparently most modern Dish receivers during their first year of release) are not only not near-perfect. They aren't even far-perfect. They appear to be across the international date line from perfect, and traveling there by canoe.

Well since there is no data related to our points, I am not sure whose experience is more common. I ,like a lot of people on here, are very tech savvy so what I would consider a short sided feature, defect, or reliability issue might not be for the common Joe.

Example: maximum number of channels one can place into the Favorite list. Power users may use this feature to remove all the channels they don't subscribe to and hit the maximum limit. Most users will use this feature to just add the channels they like and never hit the limit. To the power user this is a bug or a defieciency in the product. To the average joe, it is a great feature with no defieciency. From what I can tell, favorites list was designed for the Average Joe scenareo and the name tends to indicate it. In otherwords, some person bug is not anothers. ;)

As for dwelling on the word perfect, you gave indication that you have not had any problems with any other consumer electronics if my memory serves me. You used the word perfect and I took it to mean what it refers to. I actually took it to mean no major issues or inconviences. I still find that hard to believe given my experience on purchasing leading edge consumer products, but like you said maybe I am unlucky. By the way, I know of other issues where friends and relatives have hit reliability problems and bugs with consumer products. Before we rathole here, Lets get back on topic.

72% here have stated that they are somewhat happy to very happy with the OTA. That is much higher than I would have expected given the post and threads basing OTA performance. Does this mean Dish is done? Nope. It does indicate, however, you do have a good chance of getting OTA to work. Will it work under all circumtstanced? Nope.. Some are having issues and we know that the 811 is picky and still have some OTA bugs in it. You might need to do more work to get your 811 working where other STBs worked before and in some cases the 811 might not work at all.

The poll is by no means official as I am sure you know. Just a data point for people to take into consideration.
 
GaryPen

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I am "somewhat" happy, as well, in regard to OTA reception, which is what this poll was about.

I am more than "somewhat" UNhappy when it comes to the "acquiring signal", "downloading guide", "OTA channel recall", "loss of dark area detail", and "intermittant closed caption" defects.

I'm not sure why you continue to argue with me, as you appear to agree with Simon's and my assesment that Dish releases their products well before they are ready. Then, attempts to correct and play catch up for months to years after release, using its customers as involuntary beta testers. You know it is wrong. Period. No argument is necessary or justified.

Now, let's shake hands, have a beer, and make fun of middle managers, directors, and corporate VP's, like any good cubicle dweller.
 
Bobby

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Can I get in on that beer? I could use one right now.... :clap :yes

GaryPen said:
I am "somewhat" happy, as well, in regard to OTA reception, which is what this poll was about.

I am more than "somewhat" UNhappy when it comes to the "acquiring signal", "downloading guide", "OTA channel recall", "loss of dark area detail", and "intermittant closed caption" defects.

I'm not sure why you continue to argue with me, as you appear to agree with Simon's and my assesment that Dish releases their products well before they are ready. Then, attempts to correct and play catch up for months to years after release, using its customers as involuntary beta testers. You know it is wrong. Period. No argument is necessary or justified.

Now, let's shake hands, have a beer, and make fun of middle managers, directors, and corporate VP's, like any good cubicle dweller.
 
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WeeJavaDude

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GaryPen said:
I am "somewhat" happy, as well, in regard to OTA reception, which is what this poll was about.

I am more than "somewhat" UNhappy when it comes to the "acquiring signal", "downloading guide", "OTA channel recall", "loss of dark area detail", and "intermittant closed caption" defects.

I'm not sure why you continue to argue with me, as you appear to agree with Simon's and my assesment that Dish releases their products well before they are ready. Then, attempts to correct and play catch up for months to years after release, using its customers as involuntary beta testers. You know it is wrong. Period. No argument is necessary or justified.

Now, let's shake hands, have a beer, and make fun of middle managers, directors, and corporate VP's, like any good cubicle dweller.

I actually fell in the Happy choice. :) I got better reception than with my 6000 under the same circumstances.

As to the other defects you mention, the only one that I am concerned about is the Loss of detail in the shadow area. I hope they can fix this without a hardware change. The others I don't use the feature or I consider them annoyance level. Don't run into them enough to cause me a lot of customer pain, but I am using my 811 on a daily basis. If I recall, you are using it off and on so that might be leading into more updating guide related experiences. I only see updating guide when I run into acquiring signal and that is about 1 ever two weeks.

As for continueing to argue with you. Well I don't see it as arguing, but calling you on your point. I felt you were overstating it and I felt the need to provide my perspective.

As for Dish's software practices, I understand your point and your position. However, mine is a bit different. There is always a balance of release vs. product stability. I don't mind getting a product sooner with some defects, but I think Dish releases it too soon. I think you are of the position that the product should not be released until it their is confidence in a near-perfect Out of Box experience. If you want near-perfect Out of Box experience from Dish, the release cycle will be much longer. This feeds back into the discussion of "Should Dish pre-announce products", but I will keep that out of this discussion to minimize rat holeing.

What I think Dish should do to improve their software quality is the following:

1) Read these boards relegiously. We provide a great source of information from the field. Make contact with people on here that seem to have a pulse on a particular product and work with them to improve the product.
2) Release a list of fixes with each revision to these forums so that we can see what is fixed and what is going to be fixed. That way we can feed back if it was and add any issues that Dish might not be aware off.
3) Expand their Beta program to people on these forums so that we can official be part of the process of fixing the issue.
4) Do a much better early cycle test program to catch the glaring bugs that they let out. This is my biggest area of gripe. Though the recall channel bug I consider minor, it should not have reached the field. Easy one to catch and very well defined.

Ok ... I ratholed. Damn.. :shocked

I apologize if I came across as arguing. This was not my intention. I was attempting to provide my perspective. I do disagree at your stated level of of near-perfect consumer products, but that is based on my perspective and experience. I also find it hard to believe your orginal assertion on your near-perfect experience with other consumer level products. That is why I orginally offered a counter-point. On a final point of your no argument is justified statment. Well I personally try to keep an open mind and try to understand the other person's perspective and point of view. I might disagree with it, but I would never state that my position is right and no argument can justify the other position.

In the case of Dish's software quality in regards to the 811 release, I think they were too lose with the release criteria but I actually understand their motivation. My guess is that the release criteria was, "Is it a step forward on the 6000?". Well I could see how the answer came back was "Yes" and that is why they released it. What they missed in my Opinion

1) Not enough relaibility information.
2) Not enough field testing (Beta).
3) Underestimated amount of people that would actually use the svideo/composite.
4) Underestimated the desire for a number of features they deleyed.

Ok ... I ratholed again. Damn.. Damn... :shocked

Well, No problem shaking your hand, however I don't drink. I will have an non-alcholic beer thought! ;) Nothing wrong with disagreeing. I don't think we are that far in our thinking, but I also think I do have a different understanding of the process that differs from you and that is why I posted.

Cheers!!
 
S

snathanb

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WeeJavaDude said:
Well, No problem shaking your hand, however I don't drink. I will have an non-alcholic beer thought! ;)
Cheers!!

Good for you! (Yes, really!) Same here. LDS.
 
GaryPen

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WeeJavaDude said:
What I think Dish should do to improve their software quality is the following:

1) Read these boards relegiously. We provide a great source of information from the field. Make contact with people on here that seem to have a pulse on a particular product and work with them to improve the product.
2) Release a list of fixes with each revision to these forums so that we can see what is fixed and what is going to be fixed. That way we can feed back if it was and add any issues that Dish might not be aware off.
3) Expand their Beta program to people on these forums so that we can official be part of the process of fixing the issue.
4) Do a much better early cycle test program to catch the glaring bugs that they let out. This is my biggest area of gripe. Though the recall channel bug I consider minor, it should not have reached the field. Easy one to catch and very well defined.
100% agree.

1) Not enough relaibility information.
2) Not enough field testing (Beta).
3) Underestimated amount of people that would actually use the svideo/composite.
4) Underestimated the desire for a number of features they deleyed.
100% agree...AGAIN!

.... I don't drink.
Ahhhh...that explains everything. ;)
 
SimpleSimon

SimpleSimon

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Well, I'll go farther in beating on E*. The 921 is/was never tested. Most recent case in point was the release of the Sirius support, where the most basic use of it (listening) would cause the box to reboot when you tried to change channels. 100% of the time, and on all receivers. Obviously, NO one ever tried to use it. At all. Period. Totally unacceptable, and sadly all too common with E*.
 
W

WeeJavaDude

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SimpleSimon said:
Well, I'll go farther in beating on E*. The 921 is/was never tested. Most recent case in point was the release of the Sirius support, where the most basic use of it (listening) would cause the box to reboot when you tried to change channels. 100% of the time, and on all receivers. Obviously, NO one ever tried to use it. At all. Period. Totally unacceptable, and sadly all too common with E*.

Since Sirus was a big rollout and listening to the channels caused a reboot, I would agree with you Simon that the missed a biggie. I assume it does not take long for the bug to happen? I could understand if it happend after listening for hours or days without switching channels, but if it happens in a relatively short period that is a huge miss. Add the fact that it crashes because of it is a what I would call a crit 1.
 
SimpleSimon

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As I remember it (it's over on DBSTalk's 921 forum if it matters to anyone), there was a very common action that caused it to crash 100% of the time if you listened to Sirius. Something lke selecting TV from Guide, or selecting a recorded event, or something you do like EVERY time you pick up a 921's remote.
 
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WeeJavaDude

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GaryPen said:
Sort of like pressing "guide" while watching an OTA channel on the 811.

Come on Gary.. The 811 does not crash.. just gives you the nice informative Acquiring signal. At least you get the update counter. With the 6000 you just got "Acquiring Signal" and you got not idea how long you had to wait. ;) I really wish then would fix that one.
 

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