Ashamed to be on AM (1 Viewer)

Troch77

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 4, 2015
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Southern PA
Not the best link. A good case of "if it's on the web it is so." The reference to bandwidth is wrong. AM is allowed an overall 10khz (NRSC rules) plus occasional overshoots for "averaged" measurement. Part 15 AM's are not required to do this, (low power AM's, unlicensed, only the licensed ones.)

Also, the "cost by comparison....." "Cheaper?" Transmitters are transmitters. Electricity is Electricity. FM has expensive antennas on towers. AM has NO expensive antennas, JUST towers, but a grounding system. Nothing is 'stored' in an AM or FM signal, either. Embedded? perhaps, as part of the signal is divided to carry information OTHER than the audio on BOTH AM and FM. (as in HD on EITHER.)

I've paid $16k for NEW top of the line FM transmitters, and $45k for others. Depends on your needs, power output, features, brand, even manufacturer's location...not necessarily the AM vs. FM argument. .

Coverage for either AM or FM is dependent upon POWER output, and a combination of terrain, antenna, even processing. AM travels terrain better, but it's not got a "get out of jail free" for coverage vs. FM.

There's enough wrong there to put any broadcaster in orbit. Some good info, some total, well....
This is a No win topic, Because your opinion of Am is just that opinion.
Your trying to play off that AM RADIO is just as good,reliable and has the sound quality of FM signal.

Which is flat out Factual that it ISN'T.

Sorry. If it was it would be no doubt a widely used band today, and they wouldn't needed to develop FM.

AM radio is dismal, and maybe you should have watched the old military video at the end of my link.

Sure AM radio travels greater lengths but that just makes it more susceptible to even more interference.
You turn a light switch on next to AM radio and it distorted,

But I'm sure that's my 2014 wiring right?

AM radio isn't the way of the future and obviously never was.
 

radio

"On the Air" in MI
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Oct 13, 2007
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1) Try listening to a good (AM) broadcaster for potential sound.
2) As a nearly 30 year radio veteran and combined 17 year owner, I know how it works. I live it every day on BOTH bands, and still put out a helluva product on AM.
3) People who spread DISinformation about broadcasting on the web do a GREAT industry a DIS-service, and that's exactly what you're doing to my industry.
4) Well done, AM can serve and sound just as good. If you would like, I can also comb the web for "facts." (notice the quotes.) Truth is, there are FM's out there with less quality than what you'll hear coming from my AM towers, and those of many other GOOD AM broadcasters! Again, you refer only to the "bad" side of your experiences, because you cannot speak to the "good" side and potential in a first-hand basis. Many good stations prove great sound and coverage every day, 24/7 from hard work and attention to detail including upkeep!
5) "If it was it would be no doubt a widely used band today, and they wouldn't needed to develop FM." Note the attachment. Wide use? Of commercial stations (meaning non-hobby REAL broadcasters) there's only 1671 more FM's than AM's out of a total the FCC counts at 14,355. I'd say we're pretty widely used/utilized.
6) AM is doing well and YOU should listen to a good one now and then. (sparring back at the "you should watch" comment.)

I know 'boards are for opinions, but it helps if the information presented has some degree of credibility in fact.

apples to apples AM and FM.JPG
 
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radio

"On the Air" in MI
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Oct 13, 2007
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West Central Michigan
1) Try listening to a good (AM) broadcaster for potential sound.
2) As a nearly 30 year radio veteran and combined 17 year owner, I know how it works. I live it every day on BOTH bands, and still put out a helluva product on AM.
3) People who spread DISinformation about broadcasting on the web do a GREAT industry a DIS-service, and that's exactly what you're doing to my industry.
4) Well done, AM can serve and sound just as good. If you would like, I can also comb the web for "facts." (notice the quotes.) Truth is, there are FM's out there with less quality than what you'll hear coming from my AM towers, and those of many other GOOD AM broadcasters! Again, you refer only to the "bad" side of your experiences, because you cannot speak to the "good" side and potential in a first-hand basis. Many good stations prove great sound and coverage every day, 24/7 from hard work and attention to detail including upkeep!
5) "If it was it would be no doubt a widely used band today, and they wouldn't needed to develop FM." Note the attachment. Wide use? Of commercial stations (meaning non-hobby REAL broadcasters) there's only 1671 more FM's than AM's out of a total the FCC counts at 14,355. I'd say we're pretty widely used/utilized. There's also places in very hilly terrain where FM won't cut it no matter WHAT the power! Try Wisconsin, Colorado and other states!

6) AM is doing well and YOU should listen to a good one now and then. (sparring back at the "you should have watched" comment.)

I know 'boards are for opinions, but it helps if the information presented has some degree of credibility in fact.
 
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Troch77

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 4, 2015
4,182
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Southern PA
1) Try listening to a good (AM) broadcaster for potential sound.
2) As a nearly 30 year radio veteran and combined 17 year owner, I know how it works. I live it every day on BOTH bands, and still put out a helluva product on AM.
3) People who spread DISinformation about broadcasting on the web do a GREAT industry a DIS-service, and that's exactly what you're doing to my industry.
4) Well done, AM can serve and sound just as good. If you would like, I can also comb the web for "facts." (notice the quotes.) Truth is, there are FM's out there with less quality than what you'll hear coming from my AM towers, and those of many other GOOD AM broadcasters! Again, you refer only to the "bad" side of your experiences, because you cannot speak to the "good" side and potential in a first-hand basis. Many good stations prove great sound and coverage every day, 24/7 from hard work and attention to detail including upkeep!
5) "If it was it would be no doubt a widely used band today, and they wouldn't needed to develop FM." Note the attachment. Wide use? Of commercial stations (meaning non-hobby REAL broadcasters) there's only 1671 more FM's than AM's out of a total the FCC counts at 14,355. I'd say we're pretty widely used/utilized.
6) AM is doing well and YOU should listen to a good one now and then. (sparring back at the "you should watch" comment.)

I know 'boards are for opinions, but it helps if the information presented has some degree of credibility in fact.

View attachment 110963

1.Try finding me one.

2. Its time to stop living in the 40s.

3. Yes so knock it off already

4. I'll be sure to look for some HD AM traffic reports.

5.Widly used for Traffic reports, So is Google maps.

6. AM radio is doing so well that's why they all Have an FM sister station. After All someone needs to keep the lights on between traffic reports.
 

radio

"On the Air" in MI
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Oct 13, 2007
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West Central Michigan
For the pure entertainment value to our readers, can you add any value to the insults above? Anything to back them up?

If I'm living in the 40's it'll come as a huge shock to our streaming listeners, our app users, the vendors of my on air software, my advertisers who get results, and gee, um, NO traffic reports, lost dogs, obituaries, here. Just a good AM station in a good county, providing a wide range of entertainment, just like many others do across the USA! People who make their livings at it, and they WOULDN'T be able-to if the station didn't have listeners and a following. There's no "magic" and no "license to print money" in radio, it comes ONLY when the product is getting results for advertisers, and if it is, guess what...you have LISTENERS and a good product. If not, the station fails. Content and QUALITY of product including delivery have to be top notch to win.

Again, YOUR experience is entirely negative, and you spew it well, but you don't even acknowledge the fact there ARE good AM's out there, good operators, and good programming, all of which must have some degree of success or they couldn't survive economically on their own. Not every AM has an FM counterpart! I will give you this: Some operators put all their eggs in the "FM" basket and don't do what they should to maintain, market, and program an AM....but... As I've told many folks, we were six YEARS on the air with AM only before adding an FM translator. We brought AM back from the dead in this county. We didn't NEED (FM) it for survival or listeners, we added it when it was offered to us by a religious FM company that didn't know how to maintain their income from so many signals. There's a GREAT AM in Durand, Wisconsin doing local VERY well on 2kw, serving it's county where FM couldn't do it better! I'd name more, but for full disclosure, I work at keeping my station(s) up so much that I can't travel to visit the many more who would echo my sentiments.

Now back to our regularly scheduled ping pong game...and please keep the Insults to the AM industry to a minimum.
 

Troch77

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 4, 2015
4,182
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Southern PA
It's a Fact that AM RADIO will never be as good audio quality as FM Radio.

You can Google that until you are blue in the face and you will NOT find anything to disprove it.

But I know, don't believe everything you read about on the Internet, Which is why I Take your post with a grain of salt.

Which is why research multiple sources and it doesn't take rocket science to determine AM radio is by far distorted by just about anything from a Metal building, to a light switch turning on.
Oh and let's not forget the Airplane flying overhead!
 

Scott Greczkowski

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It's a Fact that AM RADIO will never be as good audio quality as FM Radio.
You can Google that until you are blue in the face and you will NOT find anything to disprove it.


You are wrong. I found something to disprove it. CLICK HERE.

Now with that proven, the real issue here is with the majority of owners and operators don't want the invest in the equipment or spend the time constantly tweaking their equipment to get the best sound out of it possible. For them as long as they are getting their billable ad time sold then its all good.

I have been in many... many radio stations where the owners and management could not give a rats ass of what the programming was that was playing on their station as they told me point blank they are not in the business of selling music, they are in the business of selling ad time... anything that runs between the ads to them is filler.

This unfortunately is the norm and one of the big reasons why AM radio is failing. Under the correct control and operation it can be a positive community experience where listeners are entertained and informed and keep tuning back in. Its no secret that by using the radio is the best was for companies to get their message out there. More people listen to the radio every day then watch tv and read the newspaper.

AM is almost dead because of the boneheads that are beancounters and not radio guys. AM could be a much bigger success if the owners allowed to invest in the technology and spend properly to maintain to keep the sound great. But now its rare to have a radio station with its own engineer. In fact ts quite normal for a stations engineer to work on 10 stations in three different states.

To me those are the issues
 
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Troch77

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 4, 2015
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Southern PA


You are wrong. I found something to disprove it. CLICK HERE.

Now with that proven, the real issue here is with the majority of owners and operators don't want the invest in the equipment or spend the time constantly tweaking their equipment to get the best sound out of it possible. For them as long as they are getting their billable ad time sold then its all good.

I have been in many... many radio stations where the owners and management could not give a rats ass of what the programming was that was playing on their station as they told me point blank they are not in the business of selling music, they are in the business of selling ad time... anything that runs between the ads to them is filler.

This unfortunately is the norm and one of the big reasons why AM radio is failing. Under the correct control and operation it can be a positive community experience where listeners are entertained and informed and keep tuning back in. Its no secret that by using the radio is the best was for companies to get their message out there. More people listen to the radio every day then watch tv and read the newspaper.

AM is almost dead because of the boneheads that are beancounters and not radio guys. AM could be a much bigger success if the owners allowed to invest in the technology and spend properly to maintain to keep the sound great. But now its rare to have a radio station with its own engineer. In fact ts quite normal for a stations engineer to work on 10 stations in three different states.

To me those are the issues
You just proved me Right.
Not sure how you didn't.
But thanks!.
 

navychop

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Does your car have an AM and FM antenna?
They may use a different ones at the Radio stations.
But I'm fairly confident your radio does the tuning.
I remember taking apart AM/FM radios in high school. Sometimes as part of a school project! ;)

Inside there was some copper wire wrapped around something, separate from the extensible silver antenna. It seems to me one or the other was disconnect and one band still worked.
 
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radio

"On the Air" in MI
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Oct 13, 2007
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Correct. AM antennas are a ferrite bar with wire in portable radios, FM via the whip. In a (traditional style) car, a metal whip is used for both bands, with high amplification. Newer cars may, again, separate bands'antennas even if in one odd shaped housing (depending on the design of the antenna) and separately amplify the bands, or put terrestrial antenna in glass, and satellite antenna in small housing on the roof. Depends upon the manufacturers' wishes. BEST for FM is the 31" whip antenna, tuned to the middle of the FM band, which outperforms smaller antennas and high amplification any day for FM. The TOUGHEST environment for any radio has always been in a car, especially today with all the noise from computers, inverters and high voltages.
 
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NMoon

SatelliteGuys Family
Aug 27, 2015
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Brownsburg Indiana
Umm that IS a radio broadcast... not a feed from the board.
Yep, it is a Carver TX-11a as I recall but if not the B or C models which are similar. The TX-11b even being AMAX compliant with optional de emphasis for the curve used by many AM stations. It is what the FCC and NRSC call a "modified 75 uS curve" but in reality it closely resembles the European 50 uS FM curve. I first heard a recording from this tuner back in 2001 picking up WMNI 920 from Columbus Ohio in full stereo and playing one of those mid 1960s songs with very wide stereo separation. As someone who was used to poor quality AM and just then beginning to hear AM stereo for the first time I was blown away at the quality. It sounded very close to what I expected from FM at that time.
 

radio

"On the Air" in MI
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Oct 13, 2007
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West Central Michigan
the "A" we use does have switchable AM de-emphasis and wide/narrow selections! It also contains a gain switch on the front. GREAT description of the Carver and it's capabilities in your post, by the way! As a mater of fact, the AMAX name is kind of a "downer" to a Carver. AMAX receivers which were branded with the NAB logo and sold by Denon offered a stock 7.5khz AM stereo bandwidth promised. Meanwhile, a well-maintained Carver will easily produce the 10khz needed for GREAT sound! Enjoyed your post and thanks for chiming in! It's fun presenting AM in it's best light through a receiver being used for the actual streaming source. Doing this brings us many communications from all over the world, and helps disbelievers to think a second time about AM's potential. Many of the comments we get by the way are here:
www.i1430.com/comments.html and don't forget to click over to the SECOND and growing page of comments about WION and it's sound!
 

radio

"On the Air" in MI
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Oct 13, 2007
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(insert Sarcasm here) It's called the FEDERAL communications commission. They're too busy making money selling TV and other bandwidth off for a "bandwidth hungry" country.

However, hats off to Commissioner Pai who is a very STRONG supporter of AM and it's broadcasters! He's in our court, and very open to hearing from broadcasters and consumers about AM!
 
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Brian1430

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Oct 26, 2015
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Durand, Wisconsin
I'll toss my 1/2 cent into this. In 2011 I put back on the air an AM that had been on and off air for 5 years. The FM "sister station" was moved to a metro and the AM left to die. Many of the "radio experts" told me I was crazy to do this as "AM is dead" they told me. One person was very supportive. He said to me, "It doesn't matter if its AM, FM, Internet, Smoke Signals or you on a bullhorn, if you give a crap about your community and listeners, they will give a crap about you". Well he was right, our station has obits, long form news, farm news, a church service, NASCAR Races and even a polka show. We have local programing from 6:30am-1pm Monday-Friday and have as many community people on with us in between traditional country music..yes music on AM. In afternoon we have two hours devoted to Farm programing. We also broadcast over 70 local high school sports games and have even done the 6th grade basketball holiday tournament(we were requested to do the tournament and I was like..why not that will be fun!). I know real small town hokey radio. We also stream on the internet and even sell CC WiFI radios because I can't ignore the new technology. You know what..people will listen. In 2013 I had a chance to meet with Commissioner Pai in Washington DC. I took over 30 letters of support from members of my community, young and old alike. In one of those letters the writer admitted he had not listened to AM for over 20 years until the station came back on air! We are making money and our clients are happy. I don't know how the rest of the world is, but in my little corner of it, AM is still working..yes with some help of the internet. Some of our biggest fans are the kids! Why..because of all the stuff we do at the school. I take pride that when I asked our listeners to write public comments on the AM proposal to the FCC, they did! Why..because we give a crap about our community so they give a crap about us. To me the biggest advantage of AM is the band itself! I don't have to worry about playing 20 songs in a row(that WOULD be suicide in my opinion) so I have flexibility to do different types of programming that may not be what the "radio experts" would agree with but my community does agree with and support! So there is my 1/2 cent.
 

RONZ

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 30, 2010
685
94
Luzerne
Does your car have an AM and FM antenna?
They may use a different ones at the Radio stations.
But I'm fairly confident your radio does the tuning.

Not quit correct. The FM tuner in the car goes through a ceramic filter along with a AGC circuit
Am is a lot different which requires a choke since the antenna on the car is not big enough. The choke feeds a ferrite coil before making it to the Antenna on your vehicle. So technically the antennas are different
The car antenna is really made for FM reception mainly
 

RONZ

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 30, 2010
685
94
Luzerne
the "A" we use does have switchable AM de-emphasis and wide/narrow selections! It also contains a gain switch on the front. GREAT description of the Carver and it's capabilities in your post, by the way! As a mater of fact, the AMAX name is kind of a "downer" to a Carver. AMAX receivers which were branded with the NAB logo and sold by Denon offered a stock 7.5khz AM stereo bandwidth promised. Meanwhile, a well-maintained Carver will easily produce the 10khz needed for GREAT sound! Enjoyed your post and thanks for chiming in! It's fun presenting AM in it's best light through a receiver being used for the actual streaming source. Doing this brings us many communications from all over the world, and helps disbelievers to think a second time about AM's potential. Many of the comments we get by the way are here:
www.i1430.com/comments.html and don't forget to click over to the SECOND and growing page of comments about WION and it's sound!

I still have a Carver new in the box from those days
 

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