Ask the Dish TSR's OTA Questions

[dfergie]

My 40" Sony TV's OTA tuner kicks both my Dish & Directv's tuners butt's.... I'm getting 9 channels where with both of those I get 4... KBIM does have guide info, plus I found a PBSHD feed

 

[dfergie]

Looks like I get a better antenna as I'm also getting the NBC affiliate in HD now thru the Sony... (antenna I have is 20+ years old, but was a "fringe" antenna in it's day.)

 

[Jim5506]

Interesting, you are able to get KOBR in HD OTA, because my parents in south Carlsbad and my wife's parents in La Huerta only get KBIM and KOCT in HD on US Cable, no FOX or KOBR unscrambled in the digital tier.

So, are KOBR, KBIM and KOCT now all three broadcasting HD OTA?

TVfool tells me that if I get my Funke PSP1922 up high enough I can get KOBR from my residence in Lubbock.

 

[dfergie]

Yeah all 3 in HD no FOX though, the, last time I tied to get KOBR, it was still SD although digital... it also shows no guide info (just Digital Service) on the 622's (not able to just add digital channels to my Directv receivers without scanning & having a total reboot losing guide info etc... to check it for guide info ) just guessing but if my tv gets program info, then it must be sent with the Psip data...

 

[bobvick]

Hey Tony, I have a couple for you to check. WDBB-17 in Bessemer, Al is a satellite of WTTO-CW Birmingham. Is there any way that the guide data could be reflected to show the WTTO schedule on WDBB from OTA. Also in the Birmingham DMA, WCFT-ABC 33 (ABC3340 from the PSIP data) is the same as WJSU-ABC Birmingham/Anniston. These stations from OTA only show "digital service" in the guide. Could you see about this please.

 

[macongasub]

I would like to know what Dish is going to do to keep from losing hundreds if not thousands if not more subscribers in the Macon, Ga Local area. Most subscribers here got a nasty surprise today when they turned to ABC 16 and Fox 24 to find those channels were no longer on.

Everybody I know that has Dish is pissed and some if not most are planning on calling Directv or Cox Cable to replace Dish.

What incentive is Dish going to provide to keep from losing so many subs? Or is Dish betting that many won't leave or doesn't care if they do?

 

[Jim S.]

I'd like to know why Dish doesn't either demand that Tribune give them accurate guide data, or switch to a source that will. See the two threads I started last night titled "guide idiocy alert" for just two examples out of many.

 

[jerryez]

I would like to know what Dish is going to do to keep from losing hundreds if not thousands if not more subscribers in the Macon, Ga Local area. Most subscribers here got a nasty surprise today when they turned to ABC 16 and Fox 24 to find those channels were no longer on.

Everybody I know that has Dish is pissed and some if not most are planning on calling Directv or Cox Cable to replace Dish.

What incentive is Dish going to provide to keep from losing so many subs? Or is Dish betting that many won't leave or doesn't care if they do?

Disputes happen. Its just your turn. How many thousands of Dish subscribers do you really know in the Macon area.

 

[Slamminc11]

I'd like to know why Dish doesn't either demand that Tribune give them accurate guide data, or switch to a source that will. See the two threads I started last night titled "guide idiocy alert" for just two examples out of many.

you had to start two thread on the subject?

 

[macongasub]

Disputes happen. Its just your turn. How many thousands of Dish subscribers do you really know in the Macon area.

Go back and reread my post. I didn't say I knew thousands of Dish subscribers. I said everybody I knew that had Dish was pissed to point of dropping Dish.

Dish itself is at risk of losing subscribers, whether it be a few, hundreds, or thousands. We didn't just lose one, we lost two of the major networks (ABC and FOX). If it had just been one, loss would likely be minimal. But two,... it could get real ugly.

 

[dwarren2]

Also I think I have a contact that used to work in Roswell (where KBIM comes out of) I think he still works for LIN, maybe for KRQE... will see if he can shed any light on my question if the tv's do not have any guide info.

Have you tried deleting the channels in question and then do a manual rescan? When 2 of our stations here changed to VHF, I had to do that to get them back.

 

[dfergie]

Yeah, I've scanned & deleted several times... for awhile when the antenna would lose signal I'd get the searching for satellites screen so I removed the OTA's for awhile...

 

[dwarren2]

How far are you from the transmitting towers and is your current antenna set up for UHF reception? The old fringe antenna were designed for VHF reception. I live about 20 miles east of Rochester, NY and 50 miles west of Syracuse. I live on top of a small hill and have a fringe antenna on my roof. With an amp in my attic and a rotor I get excellent reception from both cities. I also get the full guides for Syracuse while my "locals" are Rochester.

 

[Jim S.]

you had to start two thread on the subject?

Well, I wanted to make sure that they got read by people looking for the shows in question.

 

[TonyT@DISH Network]

Sorry about the silence, much needed days off. I see this thread got long. DF, I read and re-read the outcome of your channel scan. You got more channels, but did the ones missing the guide information get that information through the TV or no?

As far as the AL locals and the availability to splice the guide information... I would have to head to the lab again (YAY, another experiment!).

And as far as Jim S. and the question about requiring Tribune to provide the information to us, it gets tricky. I do not know what information DISH Network pays for (if it is ALL or just what we carry) so it is impossible to commit to an answer in that respect. Tribune, like any other "for profit" may require additional monetary input to provide that information to us. Also, if the station transmits "....." for the guide information, it is hard to imagine Tribune would know otherwise (espionage for guide information is highly unlikely).

I have not forgotten to keep experimenting with guide information being incomplete and showing "Digital Service". I went home and tried it on a Dynex 40". No difference there (and unfortunately no "new" channels like DF wrote about **shucks**). I unfortunately do not have every brand of TV and all my competitors equipment to play with to experiment fully, so I have to make do with what I do have and my responses are limited to what I have found in the gear I have access to. Guess the next option is to invade BB and make them really work to sell me a TV.

 

[Jim5506]

The 3 stations in SE NM with distance from Carlsbad and TVFool values are:

ABC - 6.1 (19) - KOCT - 28.3 mi. - 40.7 NM @ 35 ft AGL
CBS - 10.1 (10) - KBIM - 51.9 mi. - 39.2 NM @ 35 ft AGL
NBC - 8.1 (8) - KOBR - 73.4 mi. - 12.4 NM @ 35 ft AGL

Back in the analog days ABC and CBS were receivable with a small VHF antenna, but had to have a good one to get NBC without perceptible snow. I presume this means a fringe antenna setup is necessary to get KOBR OTA. It helps that they are VHF channel 8, ABC which is now on RF ch 19 barely reaches downtown Roswell (45 miles) if at all, so , I believe, the owner (KOAT out of Albuquerque) has a LP UHF translator there.

New Mexico TV DMA is a strange one, except for 3 or 4 slices that are covered by Texas or Colorado stations, the Albuquerque stations cover the entire state with either translators or satellite full power stations. In some directions more than 400 miles. This was set up by cable systems who began importing the Albuquerque stations 30-40 years ago as economig necessities began killing local TV origination in outlying areas.

SE NM TV has originated from El Paso, Odessa/Midland, Lubbock and now almost wholly from Albuquerque 285 miles away.

 

[dfergie]

The 3 stations in SE NM with distance from Carlsbad are:

ABC - 6.1 (19) - KOCT - 28.3 mi. - 40.7 NM @ 35 ft AGL
CBS - 10.1 (10) - KBIM - 51.9 mi. - 39.2 NM @ 35 ft AGL
NBC - 8.1 (8) - KOBR - 73.4 mi. - 12.4 NM @ 35 ft AGL

Back in the analog days ABC and CBS were receivable with a small VHF antenna, but had to have a good one to get NBC without perceptible snow. I presume this means a fringe antenna setup is necessary to get KOBR OTA. It helps that they are VHF channel 8, ABC which is now on RF ch 19 barely reaches downtown Roswell (45 miles) if at all, so , I believe, the owner (KOAT out of Albuquerque) has a LP UHF translator there.

Exactly... Thanks Tony, I will be at CES and the Dish booth this week so will try to capture some techs there.

 

[dfergie]

That is one thing I have noticed also... my TV & Directv do the sub channels... KOCT has 7.1 & 7.2(SD spanish), NBC has 8.1 & 8.2 (weather) & none for KBIM... TV only gets NBC & Sub...

 

[Jim5506]

That is one thing I have noticed also... my TV & Directv do the sub channels... KOCT has 7.1 & 7.2(SD spanish), NBC has 8.1 & 8.2 (weather) & none for KBIM... TV only gets NBC & Sub...

So that's what that Spanish language station unscrambled is on US Cable in Carlsbad, KOCT subchannel 7.2. Maybe US Cable will pick up KOBR-DT when they start HD OTA.

 

[TheKrell]

I have not forgotten to keep experimenting with guide information being incomplete and showing "Digital Service". I went home and tried it on a Dynex 40".

Tony, I don't see the relevance of examining the output from a TV ATSC tuner for PSIP program data. There is (or are) approximately ONE Dish Network receiver that uses PSIP data to populate it's guide, rather than the Dish EPG from satellite. I suppose we can find examples of missing PSIP data from a broadcast station. But if it is missing, they're violating regulations, and Tribune (I would guess) do not take their guide from individual stations' real time PSIP data anyhow. So the station's PSIP data is irrelevant to the problem; it all boils down to Tribune data, what Dish is paying for, and technical details.

I can't imagine that Dish is paying for guide data for Ion (my WPXW example) and can only stick that on the national feed (satellite) channel, and not our local OTA channels as well. This was working before the digital transition. I think it's some arcane datum somewhere that's set incorrectly, and as soon as Dish finds it and sets it correctly, then the missing guide data should appear.