Ask the Dish TSR's OTA Questions
- Thread starter dfergie
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If it makes you feel any better, the vast majority of my OTAs here in Denver show "Digital Service". In fact, about 20 of my OTA channels are like this. Channels 22-01 through 23-05, 28-01 through 28-05 and 31-02 (brand new local Fox affiliate sub channel that launched yesterday) all the way through 41-1 are missing guide info. Tony, you can probably see this too since you get the same OTAs as me.
Interestingly ION (59-01) and ION Life (59-03) do have the guide in Denver. Strange considering that this is the one you have issues with in your market.
Interestingly ION (59-01) and ION Life (59-03) do have the guide in Denver. Strange considering that this is the one you have issues with in your market.
Just wanted to mentioned that I pm'd Tony and he replied in a timely, professional manner.:up I'm very happy to have him and the other TSRs here!
Ed
Ed
I think (I haven't read all of the posts yet) it should be renamed "OTA channel guide errors".
My turn...
Local PBS, WPTD, has (5) channels. There has always been one or two of the channels mixed up. When the analog shutoff took place, WPTD swapped their -1 and -5 channels around. That took a while to get resolved, including one of the engineers from the station calling Dish. They got the -1 and -5 channels straightened out but then messed up the -2 channel. It currently reads "Digital Service". Here is the station's channel line-up: Digital Transition, OnAir, ThinkTV
Local PBS, WPTD, has (5) channels. There has always been one or two of the channels mixed up. When the analog shutoff took place, WPTD swapped their -1 and -5 channels around. That took a while to get resolved, including one of the engineers from the station calling Dish. They got the -1 and -5 channels straightened out but then messed up the -2 channel. It currently reads "Digital Service". Here is the station's channel line-up: Digital Transition, OnAir, ThinkTV
Dish is using PSIP data (specifically, the TSID or Transport Stream ID) to match up with Tribune's data. If the database that Dish or Tribune is using it out-of-date, channels won't "match". This can cause a station's sub-channels to be out of order (see my post just above ... this occurred for a while with my PBS when they swapped their -1 and -5 channels around) or it can cause "Digital Service" to appear because there is NO match.
Thinking I will add OTA, then open a new thread with the old name, when we get questions leaning towards another topic rename it and keep on...I think (I haven't read all of the posts yet) it should be renamed "OTA channel guide errors".
Evidently Dish receivers DO use at least part of the PSIP or TSID (not sure if there is a difference between these two acronyms) signal integrated in the ATSC stream to assign the correct guide data with the correct OTA channel.
We had a situation where one RF channel (RF 22) was broadcasting three XX.1 virtual channels, 14.1, 22.1 and 46.1, but all my Dish receivers 722k, 2 211's and one 211k displayed the 22.1 guide data on all three channels in the guide.
The local channel station manager has been working with Dish to correct this problem and here is the explanation of the technical issue he sent me:
"Channels 14.1, 22.1 and 46.1 are delivered via one RF channel. DISH’s system only recognizes one TSID from KLCW 22.1. Their system only recognizes a single guide data set and then applies it to all station streams from the RF channel. Our engineers have tried to resolve the issue before but with no luck. I’m trying another avenue inside DISH."
This series of stations has recently realigned their whole digital channel lineup putting 14.1 on virtual channel 22.2 and 46.1 on virtual channel 22.3 and now all three channels are receiving the correct guide data.
They probably could have gone to 14.2 and 46.3 and achieved the same result (WAG).
The problem was Dish hardware not able to correctly interpret the two extra XX.1 channels on the same RF stream, putting them on 22.2 and 22.3 in addition to their old 14.1 and 46.1 virtial channels has fixed the problem.
The 14.1 and 46.1 virtual channels still do not have guide data, but the new ones 22.2 and 22.3 do.
I just use the 22.X channels in my guide and lock and hide the ones that do not work.
Evidently ATSC allows multiple virtual channels to be defined inside the real channel not only for different digital streams but also for the same digital stream.
We had a situation where one RF channel (RF 22) was broadcasting three XX.1 virtual channels, 14.1, 22.1 and 46.1, but all my Dish receivers 722k, 2 211's and one 211k displayed the 22.1 guide data on all three channels in the guide.
The local channel station manager has been working with Dish to correct this problem and here is the explanation of the technical issue he sent me:
"Channels 14.1, 22.1 and 46.1 are delivered via one RF channel. DISH’s system only recognizes one TSID from KLCW 22.1. Their system only recognizes a single guide data set and then applies it to all station streams from the RF channel. Our engineers have tried to resolve the issue before but with no luck. I’m trying another avenue inside DISH."
This series of stations has recently realigned their whole digital channel lineup putting 14.1 on virtual channel 22.2 and 46.1 on virtual channel 22.3 and now all three channels are receiving the correct guide data.
They probably could have gone to 14.2 and 46.3 and achieved the same result (WAG).
The problem was Dish hardware not able to correctly interpret the two extra XX.1 channels on the same RF stream, putting them on 22.2 and 22.3 in addition to their old 14.1 and 46.1 virtial channels has fixed the problem.
The 14.1 and 46.1 virtual channels still do not have guide data, but the new ones 22.2 and 22.3 do.
I just use the 22.X channels in my guide and lock and hide the ones that do not work.
Evidently ATSC allows multiple virtual channels to be defined inside the real channel not only for different digital streams but also for the same digital stream.
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Follow-up:
Made another trip to Carlsbad this weekend and the in-laws cable now has 10 unscrambled digital channels - KOBR is now in HD; KOB Weather channel; 3 PBS channels from KENW all 3 had HD programming from time to time; KOCT in HD; KOCT spanish sub channel; KBIM in HD; QVC; and a movie channel that had a bug in the lower right corner that was a big W.
Either US Cable added some unscrambled channels or they boosted their signal enough for them to scan.
Made another trip to Carlsbad this weekend and the in-laws cable now has 10 unscrambled digital channels - KOBR is now in HD; KOB Weather channel; 3 PBS channels from KENW all 3 had HD programming from time to time; KOCT in HD; KOCT spanish sub channel; KBIM in HD; QVC; and a movie channel that had a bug in the lower right corner that was a big W.
Either US Cable added some unscrambled channels or they boosted their signal enough for them to scan.
I didn't see this thread when I started a new topic about not getting the guide info for the new OTA Antenna TV here. Perhaps a Dish TSR could help.
My 722k picked up the signal several days before the service went live, but it's been 2 weeks & my guide still shows "Digital Service." I can get the guide with TV Guide in EyeTV on my iMac so the guide info in Seattle is there but I don't get it on my Dish Vip 722k. My Sony HDTV doesn't pick up the signal at all (same antenna).
My 722k picked up the signal several days before the service went live, but it's been 2 weeks & my guide still shows "Digital Service." I can get the guide with TV Guide in EyeTV on my iMac so the guide info in Seattle is there but I don't get it on my Dish Vip 722k. My Sony HDTV doesn't pick up the signal at all (same antenna).
Interesting find last night, I just purchased a new Mitsubishi TV and it has guide data for about 12 hours from the OTA stations including KBIM, still getting digital service on my 622...
The stations aren't doing anything wrong, as you can see. They're clearly transmitting PSIP data. The error/issue is on either Dish or Tribune's end ... and is clearly very low priority
Tony, I'd like to second this one. I started a thread in the main forum: http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/244023-missing-ota-guide-data.html I'll provide some more details:
The Birmingham DMA is pretty large, geographically. We have several stations that are transmitted on two channels. The three examples are:
WTTO 21 (Main channel) and WDBB 17 (satellite) (CW Network)
WBIQ 10 (Main channel) and WCIQ 7 (satellite) (PBS-Alabama public television)
WBMA-LP 58 (Main channel) and WCFT 33 & WJSU 40 (satellites) (ABC)
In each case, the satellite stations carry *exactly* the same video feed as the main station. They are completely interchangeable, and in a lot of cases they are if you are a cable subscriber. Even on DBS, Dish uses 40 for ABC and DirecTV uses 33. And when I say one uses 40 and one uses 33, I would bet a paycheck that they use the same video feed and arbitrarily picked a channel number to use.
The problem is with OTA data. Since Dish uses channel 10, 21, and 40, I believe they only map those channels' guide data to their OTA counterparts. When I scan in channel 7 and 33, I get "Digital Service". I don't get a signal for 17, but I assume it's the same.
The issue with this setup is that since the DMA is so large, depending on where one lives, you might not be able to get the channel that has guide data. What Dish needs to do is add channels 7, 17, and 33 and simply link them to the exact same guide data for 10, 21, and 40 respectively. I don't know if mapdowns are possible with the OTA-only guide data, but that's all it should take. The guide data NEVER differs between the main stations and their satellites. PLEASE pass this along to someone in engineering or whatever department handles this stuff. It would make my life and I think bobvick's life much easier.
Actually my guide has now populated except for the KBIM CBS affiliate (which I will be depending on soon).
The DISH TSR's have nothing to do with the guide listings but have asked us to post this thread so people can post guide bugs here so that they can work to pass them along to the correct department.
Since most guide issues are area based its easier to post here once then having everyone PM the DISH TSR's with issues since many will be reporting the same areas.
We are hoping to have someone on board from the department that handles guide issues in the future.
Thanks for your understanding!
Since most guide issues are area based its easier to post here once then having everyone PM the DISH TSR's with issues since many will be reporting the same areas.
We are hoping to have someone on board from the department that handles guide issues in the future.
Thanks for your understanding!
