ATSC 3.0 Discussion

[navychop]

Is there a cutoff date for new ATSC 1 stations, after which they must be ATSC 3?

I doubt it, but I thought I’d ask.

I suspect banks and investors might view this as a bad time to start a TV station, preferring to wait until after the success or failure, and timing, of ATSC 3 is clear.

 

[comfortably_numb]

Is there a cutoff date for new ATSC 1 stations, after which they must be ATSC 3?

There's no mandate for 3.0; it's voluntary, so no deadline. But if they elect to go 3.0, they have to simulcast their old 1.0 signal for 5 years, IIRC.

 

[navychop]

But new out the gate can be ATSC 3 only, no?

 

[comfortably_numb]

But new out the gate can be ATSC 3 only, no?

I don't think so. I don't think anybody has to use it if they don't want to.

Edit: I thought you were asking if they HAD to be 3.0 only

 

[harshness]

But new out the gate can be ATSC 3 only, no?

Perhaps they could but perhaps only a dozen or so people in the entire US have access to suitable tuners, what would be the point?

advertising revenue = eyeballs = 0

Even if you're riding on someone else's carrier, you still have to pony up for content.

 

[navychop]

Naw, I’m imagining a year or two down the line.

Some ATSC 1 stations may be well along in the pipeline now, and open this year. But I imagine no new plans will go far until the Money sees how ATSC 3 works out. Place your money on the wrong horse, and it could be costly.

So will 2019 see ATSC 3 broadcasts popping up in various places? Start that 5 year timeline.

Or 2020?

2021?

Maybe by year’s end we’ll have some better idea of how fast and if. I guess there’s not much doubt, if wise, if the broadcasters are so gung ho about it.

 

[harshness]

Thus far we haven't heard much from Congress on the subject and I expect that they were be considerably more deliberative about changing the standard than the current FCC board has been (especially given the political split of the votes).

For all of the ATSC's bold announcements about being ready for prime time, they still never fail to mention that Next-gen continues to evolve.

Finally, without some manner of mandate, the five year plan is probably not going to sweep the entire industry. We're hearing from a handful of station ownership groups and there's a lot of other groups to weigh in.

 

[N5XZS]

I just hope we don't screw the pooch on ATSC 3.0, just like we did on AM stereo standard voluntary methods back in the 1980s .

The FCC can be clueless as hell at time!

 

[harshness]

Thus far there doesn't seem to be much competition for ATSC 3.0. It seems like if they don't get the broadcast version out there soon, something else that uses different technologies could come along (much like what ATSC 3.0 did to ATSC 2.0).

I think the key is when a world political power (of which South Korea and Sinclair are not examples) steps up and declares an official standard. Until then this "market driven" model will likely yield remarkably similar results to AM stereo. Too many planets have to come into alignment for a standard to otherwise get a foothold. As the videotape and HD optical disc wars showed us, "there can be only one" and the battle (and ultimate result) is costly to many.

 

[Trip]

Broke ATSC 3.0 posts into a separate thread.

- Trip

 

[jayn_j]

Thus far there doesn't seem to be much competition for ATSC 3.0. It seems like if they don't get the broadcast version out there soon, something else that uses different technologies could come along (much like what ATSC 3.0 did to ATSC 2.0).

I think the key is when a world political power (of which South Korea and Sinclair are not examples) steps up and declares an official standard. Until then this "market driven" model will likely yield remarkably similar results to AM stereo. Too many planets have to come into alignment for a standard to otherwise get a foothold. As the videotape and HD optical disc wars showed us, "there can be only one" and the battle (and ultimate result) is costly to many.

I've been saying this for 2 years now. This is a big yawn to most people. They aren't going to support a new standard that requires adapters or new equipment as they still remember the pain of the last generation's upgrade. Few TV stations are going to upgrade to 3.0 and compromise their existing base. The spectrum crunch pretty much killed any chance for a simulcast transition. I see 3.0 broadcast std as a non-starter for these reasons.

 

[navychop]

Broke ATSC 3.0 posts into a separate thread.

- Trip

Thank you.

I can now cancel my appointment to check in to the looney bin.

 

[navychop]

I've been saying this for 2 years now. This is a big yawn to most people. They aren't going to support a new standard that requires adapters or new equipment as they still remember the pain of the last generation's upgrade. Few TV stations are going to upgrade to 3.0 and compromise their existing base. The spectrum crunch pretty much killed any chance for a simulcast transition. I see 3.0 broadcast std as a non-starter for these reasons.

I have leaned toward this. But now I’ve read too many posts where the broadcasters have gotten onboard and will make it happen. I suppose they will incentivize TV manufacturers to include the new tuners. But damned if I can $ee any way but one to make that incentive.

 

[jayn_j]

I have leaned toward this. But now I’ve read too many posts where the broadcasters have gotten onboard and will make it happen. I suppose they will incentivize TV manufacturers to include the new tuners. But damned if I can $ee any way but one to make that incentive.

I guess I can't see the smooth transition strategy.
First, if only some broadcasters transition in a market, you are going to need to buy a new TV or have a multi-standard adapter box. Otherwise changing channels would require some serious switching which will not be pretty for the guy that just wants to switch over to Wheel of Fortune.
Second, even if you could get everyone to agree, I only see this as a win for the cable companies who will provide a no hassle solution. Perhaps this is the strategy to kill broadcast and force the cable connection.

 

[navychop]

It’ll no doubt take years. I believe, from an AVS poll, that people wait 5-10 years before replacing their TVs. My main one is 13 years old. I only expected it to last 5. It might be another 1-2 years before I replace it.

I suspect in a very few years, people will buy TVs without considering ATSC 1 or 3. It’ll just come with it, and they’ll just change channels into and away from ATSC 3 stations seamlessly.

Now, teaching people to connect them to the Internet- well, that’s a different problem.

 

[harshness]

I suspect in a very few years, people will buy TVs without considering ATSC 1 or 3. It’ll just come with it, and they’ll just change channels into and away from ATSC 3 stations seamlessly.

OTOH, some 80+% of the population doesn't give a tinker's dam about broadcast TV and many of those who do aren't the kind that upgrades their TVs frequently.

 

[comfortably_numb]

So, if my repack dates are 12/1/18 through 4/12/2019, does that mean that affected stations can begin using their new frequency and/or simulcast at any time during that window?

 

[KD6W]

There's no mandate for 3.0; it's voluntary, so no deadline. But if they elect to go 3.0, they have to simulcast their old 1.0 signal for 5 years, IIRC.

Yes and no. Yes the cut-over is voluntary and yes they will channel share their properties on other sticks but there is NO cutoff date (as of yet) the FCC has not set a date to force the retirement of the 1.0 format. The Class A and LPTV guys will likely be allowed to maintain 1.0 service well past the sunset strategy set forth by a future NPRM and likely by the time we start colonizing the planet Mars. For crap sake, we still have hundreds of TV stations still broadcasting analog, but many of them will be wiped out in the repack.

 

[navychop]

There may be so much juggling in some areas, stations will have to negotiate with each other to coordinate the frequencies switchover.

 

[KD6W]

There may be so much juggling in some areas, stations will have to negotiate with each other to coordinate the frequencies switchover.

Yes, you are correct and many channel shares have already started, rescanning your receivers is key. If a channel goes away, just rescan it and hope the new signal is as good or better than before.