ATSC 3.0 Discussion

rad

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KEYE in Austin TX has been running notices that on/after 8.20.2020 that ATSC 1.0 views will need to rescan since that station is changing frequencies due to the addition of their ATSC 3.0 station,
 

danristheman

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Jan 25, 2011
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I would say pay for sports I hate sports. Other than Olympic games you should pay to watch sports. You should not pay for ESPN if you are not watching it. Rather have good movies to watch.
 

mwdxer1

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Nov 3, 2015
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The Portland stations are still setting to start 3.0 on the 28th. New encoders are being used to improve pq. for the stacking. So we will not be waiting long now.
Most of the wait is over as we went from 16 OTA offerings to 22. The 12.1/49.1 mux still needs to be updated that will give us a few more diginets, at 26. But we finally got CW OTA as well as Antenna TV. Thank goodness for the 3.0 set up as who knows when we would have gotten a CW translator.
 
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Voyager6

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Most of the wait is over as we went from 16 OTA offerings to 22. The 12.1/49.1 mux still needs to be updated that will give us a few more diginets, at 26. But we finally got CW OTA as well as Antenna TV. Thank goodness for the 3.0 set up as who knows when we would have gotten a CW translator.
How can cramming all those channels into such a small bandwidth be good?
 

FTA4PA

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I grew up watching tv with an antenna. We got 4 channels, two were clear, one was a bit snowy and one was really snowy. With digital tv if I can get more channels but they are not perfect because they have to share the bandwidth available then so be it. I'd rather have some extra non-perfect channels that I will actually watch than a few perfect ones with the usual dreck that is today's television. Just my opinion... :rolleyes
 

baboonie

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Jul 30, 2018
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Ok all,some of you know me from sites. Goonierag,baboonie1221,(dslreports,cordcutters,tvaddons,tvfool,etc.)got banned from one of them cause
cause fought against one of their cable companies,that was probably paying them. Their flyboy didn't agree so I was banned.But C seen what they
were doing cause of banning me and quit writing for them. Anyways,the last argument I was haveing was ASTC 3.0/Nexgen. I was telling my opinion
and what was going to happen. The argument was it was 2 way communications.Microsofts airband proves it. But it was where sinclair was going with
putting all their stuff in one place.But also broadcast tv. First of all,broadcast television. There will always be the main networks,(ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX and soon CW.)
Reason be,a written law that for any broadcaster that is getting free spectrum,they must have free content for the people.Even Pai can't change that one.And no broadcaster
is going to give up all their spectrum they get free worth billions.If refuse to have free broadcast,has to turn the spectrum back over to the fcc for reperpous.
So there will always be free tv and they have to make their money on it somehow,(substations,ad supported on top of the main channel)
Now ATSC3.0/Nexgen TV,The broadcasters are all for it, 2 way communication,they can sell to other broadcasters,sharing the signal,but
also like sinclair,like I was saying earlier on the other site.Put all their stations in one place,They can transmit it as one subcarrier station
and they can play with the rest of their spectrum to make money other ways.Cause they know they can't sell it all.But with 2 way communication
and only useing 1 subcarrier to run a few dozen stations that are add supported,that is money. Now the cable companies are worried,if you can put
a app on one station and do 2 way broadcasting, that can be the death of them.So ATSC30/nexgen tv is here to stay. People are worried about needing new tv's,
That won't happen even if the cable companies try to say you will.There will be dongles just like sling,hulu,roku,etc that you will be able to plug into an older
tv.Hell if wait,the broadcasters might even start handing them out for free so they can have more viewers.But will eventually be low cost,under 20 dollars.
So people you might not want to believe me but you will not loose your free tv,that is written. Even Pai can't change that one.

P.S.
You notice quite a few services are bundled on the net free.Peacock TV,Stirr,pluto,etc.They looking for the future.
 

mwdxer1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 3, 2015
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Seaside Oregon
I grew up watching tv with an antenna. We got 4 channels, two were clear, one was a bit snowy and one was really snowy. With digital tv if I can get more channels but they are not perfect because they have to share the bandwidth available then so be it. I'd rather have some extra non-perfect channels that I will actually watch than a few perfect ones with the usual dreck that is today's television. Just my opinion... :rolleyes

Totally agree. Because of the stacking we got KRCW and Antenna TV, plus some others. You were lucky to get 4 channels. Sometimes we got none or maybe one and some were pretty snowy.
 
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baboonie

SatelliteGuys Family
Jul 30, 2018
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26201
I grew up watching tv with an antenna. We got 4 channels, two were clear, one was a bit snowy and one was really snowy. With digital tv if I can get more channels but they are not perfect because they have to share the bandwidth available then so be it. I'd rather have some extra non-perfect channels that I will actually watch than a few perfect ones with the usual dreck that is today's television. Just my opinion... :rolleyes
Ok all,some of you know me from sites. Goonierag,baboonie1221,(dslreports,cordcutters,tvaddons,tvfool,etc.)got banned from one of them cause
cause fought against one of their cable companies,that was probably paying them. Their flyboy didn't agree so I was banned. Anyways,the last argument I was haveing was ASTC 3.0/Nexgen. I was telling my opinion
and what was going to happen. The argument was it was 2 way communications.Microsofts airgig proves it. But it was where sinclair(besides owning most of the patents for ATSC 3.0) was going with
putting all their stuff in one place.But also broadcast tv. First of all,broadcast television. There will always be the main networks,(ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX and soon CW. )
Reason be,a law that I think is written that for any broadcaster that is getting free spectrum that belongs to the people not the government,they must have free content for the people.Even Pai can't change that one. And no broadcaster
is going to give up all their spectrum they get free worth billions.If refuse to have free broadcast,has to turn the spectrum back over to the fcc for reperpous.
So there will always be free tv and they have to make their money on it somehow,(substations,ad supported on top of the main channel)
Now ATSC3.0/Nexgen TV,The broadcasters are all for it, 2 way communication,they can sell to other broadcasters,sharing the signal,but
also like sinclair,like I was saying earlier on the other site.Put all their stations in one place,They can transmit it as one subcarrier station
and they can play with the rest of their spectrum to make money other ways.Cause they know they can't sell it all.But with 2 way communication
and only useing 1 subcarrier to run a few dozen stations that are add supported,that is money. Now the cable companies are worried,if you can put
a app on one station and do 2 way broadcasting, that can be the death of them.So ATSC30/nexgen tv is here to stay. People are worried about needing new tv's,
That won't happen even if the cable companies try to say you will.There will be dongles just like sling,hulu,roku,etc that you will be able to plug into an older
tv.Hell if wait,the broadcasters might even start handing them out for free so they can have more viewers.But will eventually be low cost,under 20 dollars.
So people you might not want to believe me but you will not loose your free tv.

P.S.
You notice quite a few services are bundled on the net free.Peacock TV,Stirr,pluto,etc.They looking for the future.
 

DarkStarPDX

Member
Jun 11, 2009
7
11
Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
How can cramming all those channels into such a small bandwidth be good?

It actually worked out a lot better than you would expect.

Part of the NextGen TV launch required that all the stations add "guest" stations to help launch the NextGen TV lighthouse stations. Adding the additional channels meant that we all needed to purchase new encoders for our ATSC 1.0 signals and, at least in our case, that meant jumping two generations of encoders.

So now we actually have better picture quality having one 720p, one 1080i, and three 480i channels vs what we had before (two 720p and two 480i channels). The new encoders a much more efficient. Yes, it's not perfect but it's a good solution until we switch to NextGen TV.
 

navychop

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Any word you can share about how the station will monetize the new system?
 

mwdxer1

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Nov 3, 2015
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Seaside Oregon
It actually worked out a lot better than you would expect.

Part of the NextGen TV launch required that all the stations add "guest" stations to help launch the NextGen TV lighthouse stations. Adding the additional channels meant that we all needed to purchase new encoders for our ATSC 1.0 signals and, at least in our case, that meant jumping two generations of encoders.

So now we actually have better picture quality having one 720p, one 1080i, and three 480i channels vs what we had before (two 720p and two 480i channels). The new encoders a much more efficient. Yes, it's not perfect but it's a good solution until we switch to NextGen TV.

I have been quite pleased with the pq with stacking using new Encorders. KATU's METV dropped from y720p to 480i, but I haven't noticed that much of a difference. We have many more OTA offerings on our translators than we did have.
 
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Mister B

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Jun 3, 2008
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I have been quite pleased with the pq with stacking using new Encorders. KATU's METV dropped from y720p to 480i, but I haven't noticed that much of a difference. We have many more OTA offerings on our translators than we did have.

Do the translators have to update equipment or does the improved picture quality simply pass through from the parent station?
 
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N5XZS

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Jan 23, 2005
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That is a good question and I think by sending microwave link to translator in a raw data video stream, in a exact video compression encoding and you just need 8vsb exciter to do the job.

Unless you want a local produced microcasting then you need a good digital encoder and feed it to 8vsb exciter. :) :hatsoff
 

Tower Guy

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Nov 1, 2005
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Do the translators have to update equipment or does the improved picture quality simply pass through from the parent station?
There are multiple ways to get a signal from the parent station to a translator. Almost none of them do any re-encoding of the signal. Therefore the PQ of the parent station follows through to the translators, including the PQ of all of the sub channels.
 

N5XZS

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Jan 23, 2005
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Albuquerque, NM, USA
Found a interesting story from Radioworld.com what the best way to use ATSC 3.0 for radio?

here's the link...


I personally think if they use full bandwith for true CD quality like classical, Jazz and other music. if use properly mixed with video or even better use fully dedicated to radio only ATSC 3.0 for at home listening, not on road listening.

Not halfway audio quality bandwidth, please not like HD radio you know what I am saying. :rolleyes:

I know there are audiophiles out there are screaming for this!:biggrin

Let me know what you think of this ideas?:hatsoff
 

mwdxer1

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Nov 3, 2015
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Seaside Oregon
Do the translators have to update equipment or does the improved picture quality simply pass through from the parent station?

It may be a by pass, so the same pq in Portland is the same here, but that is a guess. I know KPTV/KPDX mux is still on 6 translators including here. Meredith has their engineers switching over to the new stack, but I have no idea how long that will take. I kind of expected it to be done as they sent engineers out on the 29th, right after the stacking starting in Portland. We got the rest, 2-6-8-10 are the same as in Portland out to all of their translators. KPTV (12) & KPDX (49) is the only one that is different. Now according to the KPTV website, except for 6 translator sites, the rest have the new mux.
 

Trip

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I personally think if they use full bandwith for true CD quality like classical, Jazz and other music. if use properly mixed with video or even better use fully dedicated to radio only ATSC 3.0 for at home listening, not on road listening.

Not halfway audio quality bandwidth, please not like HD radio you know what I am saying. :rolleyes:

I know there are audiophiles out there are screaming for this!:biggrin

Let me know what you think of this ideas?:hatsoff

I'm sure there may be dozens of people nationwide who are "screaming" for CD-quality commercials and talk show hosts with the occasional over-compressed pop song in between. None of the other 300+ million people are, and there's no money to made in it.

Most radio listening is done in the car, which means that road noise will destroy any high-quality audio. Other listening is done through cheap earbuds, which also are bad at reproducing high-quality audio. Most actual music listening is done through streaming or MP3 player type things like phones. Some is probably done through "smart speakers" which certainly aren't built with audiophiles in mind. As long as you can't hear compression artifacts, basically nobody cares, and even if you can hear them, a substantial number of people still don't care. "Good enough" is good enough.

I'll put it like this. Tidal is a streaming service that prides itself on high quality audio. It is bundled with many Sprint accounts, and Sprint has something like 50 million customers. Despite this, Tidal is estimated to have between 1 million and 5 million customers. Compare with Spotify, at more than 100 million.

- Trip
 

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