BIRDVIEW WITH DMX 241 FOR W-5 CONVERSION (DSR-410 ready or 922 )

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radio

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MY BIRDVIEW WITH DMX 241 FOR W-5 CONVERSION (DSR-410 OR 922 READY) WORKED!

I'm not sure this info will be of any interest, but I'm excited to have my second Birdview set-up for W-5, giving me options if I want to go to a DSR-410 and keep my original motorized Birdview for FTA!

I'm a fortunate person. Two Birdivews in the yard. First one completely motorized, and already 4DTV friendly. Subs on W-5 and one other bird. It's served me well for 4D and in the clear C-band for quite some time! Keeping this first Birdview ready to go for(motorized) FTA on both C and KU was my goal, switching my 4D subs over to feed off the stationary birdview which has not had the reed-switch conversion for the motor done yet. Along the way, I have learned how to easily set-up the stationary BV for single-satellite use after the 4D shutdown and conversion to DSR-410 readiness, or continued W-5 on 922 receiver! In a nutshell, I lucked out today!

On the second (stationary) dish, the Birdview "high block" dual LNB used for alignment and signal check on 4D was removed. I had extra scalar plates, so had the center of two of them milled out to fit the newer basic C and KU band LNBF's (like the DMX-241 shown.) I was pleasantly surprised when the supplied (new) scalar/mount which came with the 241 bolted right on the orignal Birdivew plate! Who would have thought?

Had already aligned the second non-motorized BV to W-5 and checked signal on 4D unit using original dual C-band Birdview dual LNB, so the only "variable" left was the focal distance and alignment of the new DMX-421 LNBF for best signal on my 4D which is now wired-to and fed-by to this second, stationary dish parked on W-5.

Searched these forums, where someone mentioned the alignment of the "0" marking should be straight down when dish is aimed due south. I randomly placed the new LNB cylinder in-place, protruding about 1/4" beyond the original Scalar's rings, and approximated on the non-moving dish about where the "0" would be when not true south, but when on W-5.

I've never worked with the newer LNBF's and expected much trouble in aligning and finding a signal. The original Birdviews were easy, marked, and foolproof for the most part! To my surprise, with the 4D switched-over for C-band LNBF from its dual LNB setting, and no other changes, I'm getting signal-quality readings in the upper 90's on all my W-5 subs, horizontal and vertical!

I've read in this forum that KU may be much more difficult than C-band for Birdview conversions, but...I have high hopes that this model can be followed when using a BSC-621 combination on the motorized dish, and that I can use the same mounting technique...then do the "fine tuning."

I have a G-box positioner ready to put on the movable Birdview when the 4D is taken offline, but am new to the FTA part of the satellite hobby and will need help along the way finding signals. Doesn't it make sense, however to park the movable dish on a bird KNOWN for FTA on C-band (like W-1 or W-5) then proceed finding other satellites with the known good-arc of the movable dish? I have a GBOX positioner ready to put online, and a Pansat 3500 receiver that has been slaved off the Birdview's LNB on horizontal side only, with good C-band results thus far.

Its only the Ku-band alignment and tweaking on the motorized BV and the (re)finding of satellites that scares me about converting the original motorized BV to a (hopefully great) FTA setup!

Attached pics: C-band LNB changeover (before attaching original LNB cover with drilled holes in cover and wire-ties) and...the converted black scalar plate and C/Ku 421 ready to be installed on the motorized BV dish. (still amazed that the new plate bolts on the old Birdview!)

I was very surprised at how smooth the C-band only LNB changeover went today!
BTW...BV fans will notice the struts are not original on the second dish, (surface rust) but they are scheduled for either painting or changing, too!)

Fun to have a place to share stories on this topic...and Birdview is not known for being "standard" for ANYTHING! (let alone converting them for anything but original hardware!!) I'm open to ideas for the FTA conversion! Please chime in!
 

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Last edited:
phlatwound

phlatwound

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Nice job there, radio. So there were holes in the new scalar that lined up with the existing holes in the BV scalar? :cool:

I have used those existing BV holes to hold some little threaded angle brackets, then put adjustable stop bolts in the brackets to retain the feedtube.

Do you have the magnet wheel conversions for your mount positioning sensors, or the old potentiometer setup?
 
M

Mr Tony

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Nov 17, 2003
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54
Mankato, MN
VERY nice pics

an option to optimize signal on the 4DTV is to hit options (or menu) 6-0-5 then right arrow to "diagnostic C"...on the right corner there is a number (ebno) that shows something like +8.6. Since you have signal it will show a +. If you keep that screen up while tweaking you can get the best signal out there. I think it goes to +15.0 but anything above +7.5 is great
 
radio

radio

Thread Starter
"On the Air" in MI
Pub Member / Supporter
Oct 13, 2007
3,709
976
West Central Michigan
Nice job there, radio. So there were holes in the new scalar that lined up with the existing holes in the BV scalar? :cool:

I have used those existing BV holes to hold some little threaded angle brackets, then put adjustable stop bolts in the brackets to retain the feedtube.

Do you have the magnet wheel conversions for your mount positioning sensors, or the old potentiometer setup?

Yes, the holes on the original BV scalar plate lined up perfectly with both of my mounts/new scalars as supplied with the newer LNBF's. I couldn't have hoped for better! And, since Birdviews didn't change their plates all through the manufacturing as far as I know, this should mean even the OLDEST of Birdview product should be able to be adapted in this manner, even the early LNA stuff! (there are still some old ones haunting backyards that have been decommisioned a long time.) I was SO surprised at this..and pleased, because I'm okay with electronics, not so good with physically engineering mounts!

The center of the original BV scalar was simply put on a friends metal lathe and enlarged to be slightly bigger than the new LNBF cylinder.

I have still got the potentiometer on the stationary dish, but want to at some time change it (in case it is ever used for more than the upcoming W-5 conversion.) The movable dish is fully converted with original birdview reed-switch kit and has never skipped a beat!
 
radio

radio

Thread Starter
"On the Air" in MI
Pub Member / Supporter
Oct 13, 2007
3,709
976
West Central Michigan
VERY nice pics

an option to optimize signal on the 4DTV is to hit options (or menu) 6-0-5 then right arrow to "diagnostic C"...on the right corner there is a number (ebno) that shows something like +8.6. Since you have signal it will show a +. If you keep that screen up while tweaking you can get the best signal out there. I think it goes to +15.0 but anything above +7.5 is great

Thanks for the tips! Will do that!

Now, its time to mount the combination C and Ku on the movable (other) dish, and convert it for full free to air use.
Sounds like tweaking for C-band first is the best bet, (knowing the arc is good and the LNBF should align similarly to the C-band only unit)
then onto Ku band!

Pansat 3500 already is known working and pulls Horizontal C-band off the old Birdview LNB. Is there a particular thread already here that would outline the use of an external switch in-house (not using the jumper on the 621--using two leads in to receiver) and its initial settings on the Pansat for attempting Ku and C both on this upcoming Birdview conversion? Am I on the right track?

(by the way, I mis-printed in the original post, the LNB in the BLACK scalar pic is the 621, pending install, NOT a 421. Sorry. )
 
truckracer

truckracer

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Sep 17, 2004
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Charleston wv
i never realized how different in design birdview dishes were in comparison to other buds.
 
radio

radio

Thread Starter
"On the Air" in MI
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Oct 13, 2007
3,709
976
West Central Michigan
i never realized how different in design birdview dishes were in comparison to other buds.

They had the BEST "hardware" pack in the biz. Motor inside, no "arm" to rust or freeze, a dish you could literally "sit in" and it would survive,
not to mention a "hexapod" support (six supports to the nosecone electronics) and...I believe they were the first to make a dual LNB standard so you could add other receivers on their systems. That was the "good." the "bad" was that until near their demise, they didn't standardize for other manufacturer's IRD's, and then required the change from the pot on the gear drive to the reed-switch, and either a Birdview-modified LNB for the proper frequencies, or an aftermarket one which never fit! (that's why I was surprised at the fit on my project.) The other problem was almost everything was "in-house' including trucking, and the cost of moving those dishes was higher than moving panel-style dishes to dealers and homes. In 1986, a Birdview was around 2 to 3 thousand bucks, when "standard" systems were $1000 to $1500.

Now its a fun "challenge" to adapt Birdview, but its great to have the best "build" in the consumer industry.
 
truckracer

truckracer

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Sep 17, 2004
4,338
351
Charleston wv
wow...if a person sat in my sami it would break! my sami (which i love/i have a 7.5 and a 10') the10' is just a larger 7.5'! my 10' is so flemsy!
 
radio

radio

Thread Starter
"On the Air" in MI
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Oct 13, 2007
3,709
976
West Central Michigan
The owner of the store for which I worked (selling TV, VCR, and satellite in the 80's) used to go out and literally SIT in the birdview display. The (analog, then) signal suffered, but it never hurt the dish, and always returned to full signal, never losing alignment. Somewhere, if you search my (few) posts, you'll see an old demo I scanned of a Birdview outlasting a hurricane.....not much left around it, and its sitting in water, but IT survived. If you can find one, you'll love it!
 
radio

radio

Thread Starter
"On the Air" in MI
Pub Member / Supporter
Oct 13, 2007
3,709
976
West Central Michigan
VERY nice pics

an option to optimize signal on the 4DTV is to hit options (or menu) 6-0-5 then right arrow to "diagnostic C"...on the right corner there is a number (ebno) that shows something like +8.6. Since you have signal it will show a +. If you keep that screen up while tweaking you can get the best signal out there. I think it goes to +15.0 but anything above +7.5 is great

Well, a 10.2 doesn't sound bad, then for a first-effort with NO tweaking having been done. Literally, eyeballed based on info on this forum only for the "0" alignment! Will try to tweak soon and report!
 

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M

Mr Tony

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Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
306
54
Mankato, MN
10.2 is very good :)
You really shouldnt have to tweak anymore
 
radio

radio

Thread Starter
"On the Air" in MI
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Oct 13, 2007
3,709
976
West Central Michigan
10.2 is very good :)
You really shouldnt have to tweak anymore

Is there a similar "benchmark" (is the build similar) with the 621 LNBF which I want to put on the motorized birdview such that we could get close with C-band before tweaking/searching out Ku? The info posted here about putting the zero near straight down (on the the project just completed) when dish was pointed south is how we got this close with the stationary dish so quickly! An established starting point for the LNBF's position may make the FTA conversion of the second dish go easier!
 
radio

radio

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2nd Birdview with 621 C/Ku LNBF project underway. C-band working well!

Today's weather allowed an afternoon with the dishes.

First step: tweak the motorized birdview dish for signal on W-5 using existing Birdview dual LNB. Got great results, around 10.2 or a bit less on the "C" diagnostic screens. (not shown. pics are from new LNBF)

Step 2: Remove original Birdview Scalar, replace with Birdview that has center milled-out to accept the larger cylinder of the BSC-621 LNBF. Broke two struts' threaded ends off, but had spare struts. Replaced them, and put the black-bottomed Birdview Scalar with milled center and LNBF in place. Once again, the scalar supplied with the LNBF had a bolt pattern that perfectly matches the original Birdview's scalar holes. Simply get longer bolts to fit, and its an EASY conversion.

Didn't know if the "guts" of this 621 LNBF were similar to the C-band only DMX 241 unit shown earlier in this thread on my stationary dish, but mounted the LNBF as if they were located similarly. On a properly installed Birdview, this places the flat "hookup" C-band side of the LNBF in about about a 1 O'clock/7 O'clock line when dish is pointed at W-5. Currently feeding C-band only, will look for Ku later. Hopefully tomorrow.

Step 3: Go to the menu Iceberg recommended for quality tweaking and check both horizontal and vertical signals on the 4D. This unit seems to be stronger on the "Horizontal" channels, but acceptable on Vertical as well. We range from the 8's to as high as 12 on some transponders.

As pictures show, the qualities vary...from acceptable on some transponders to excellent on others. Is this a normal situation for digital as it used to be with analog as well? (changes in quality from transponder to transponder). Would this be considered a second "healthy" install thus far based on the numbes shown? Bravo's W-5 Transponder is gangbusters strong, probably the best I am receiving.

Next will come the Ku side of things, using the Pansat 3500. First, however I want to verify the Pansat is getting signal. When the Pansat was slaved off the Birdview/4D Horizontal C-band side only, I received various channels, using the 4D to move the dish and Pansat for FTA reception with good results. Never tried Ku or C-band vertical.

Now, with a single feed only to start on c-band from the 621, slaved to the Pansat, I need to change some settings, and I assume I need to re-scan the same satellites with the "horizontal" channels selected on the 4D, but..somewhere I read that the polarities may be different on 4D vs. FTA on C-band? I could use some help with that info.....At this point, I just want to verify the C-band part of the FTA is back working on the new LNBF.

The next step for me is to move both the horizontal and vertical feeds from this motorized dish to the FTA exclusively, and return the 4D to the stationary dish, making this birdview a movable FTA dish only..... and install the proper diseq switch INSIDE on the two feed lines coming in from the 621. I understand this works better than using the outside built-in switch on the 621 does?

What LNB settings and other setup settings should I have for the Pansat since this change from the Birdview "standard" LNB? on its current single feed? Any help appreciated.

What should the LNB settings on the Pansat be? I know that the 4D will set the polarities as of now, but when I migrate the 4d back to the stationary dish, this motorized c and ku birdview will feed the pansat 3500 exclusively with dual lines into the building. Any help in hookup with diseq info (inside, not the LNB built-in) to the Pansat also appreciated.

Pictures show the varying qualities on C-band with the 621 LNBF but I believe most are well within acceptable bracket. I hope the Ku will align well. I'd love any input on getting Ku tuned in, where to send the dish for best possible signal for setup, any info appreciated via this forum or by PM.

Apologies to the moderators if the post is long. Trying to be specific about what I am asking, and the procedure I've used to get the results thus far. Both this project and the stationary one that started this thread have gone well!
 

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