C/Ku Band

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bic

Thread Starter
Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Sep 2, 2006
25
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British Columbia, Canada
Need a little input here.:confused:

I have a 1.2 meter Winegard dish with a Staab HH120 motor on a pole. I'm at 53 degrees North so I need the larger dish. I have a Nfusion Nuvenio for a door stop and can"t WAIT util my Geosatpro DVR 1100c arrives. A couple of questions?

I can't find anyplace to order the conversion kit to attach a C/Ku band lnb to the 1.2 Winegard; or does the geosat pro 1.2 conversion kit fit? I realize I may loose some Ku but I haven't a lot to start with and (without asking) I KNOW I can't add a 6 foot dish to our lawn.

Which C/Ku lnb should I get? It seems the Bsc 621 has been replaced by the DMX741. There is also the Geosat c/ku. Which is the most sensitive for my definetly 'fringe' area?
 

1ADAM12

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Aug 4, 2009
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Offset LNBF

Because your motorised you would be better off with an offset LNBF. Try center mounting a Ku lnbf and offset the C Band. With your dish a flat scalar ring should work better then the conical scalar.

Try out Walrus1957 scalar improvement of adding a wrench socket at 3 O'clock on the inner ring.
 

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bic

Thread Starter
Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Sep 2, 2006
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British Columbia, Canada
I'm a liitle new. Could you be a little clearer? " A wrench socket at 3:00 oclock" what does that mean?. I googled 'Walrus1957' and saw how to build the flat scalar; very nice! This sounds like a lot of fun. Could you suggest a brand/type "C" lnb?

Thanks
 

AcWxRadar

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 26, 2006
4,575
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40 miles NW of Omaha. Omaha?
Bic,

I won't say that Walrus and I have attempted to give all models of LNBFs a trial, but the BSC621-2 from DMS International works fairly well to receive both C and Ku signals in the same application.

With a GEOSAT pro 1.2 M dish and a flat scalar and this LNBF, you may be able to achieve both bands (with limitations) with a motorized antenna.

The "socket at the 3-O'clock position" is sort of an accidental find.

I was experimenting with the BSC621-2 LNBF that Walrus loaned me to play with. I was trying to position the scalar ring for the optimum signal quality and through an inadvertent accident, I noticed that when I grabbed the outer ring of the scalar to try to hold it steady or move it slightly, the signal improved a very noticeable amount. So, with one of my fingers basically inserted in the outer ring, I was able to increase the signal reception.

Walrus was experimenting with his equipment and recalled my findings. He tried it himself and found the same results. So, he simply dug through his toolbox and found a "socket" of the right size that would fit in the outer ring and when pressed into it, would remain there. With a little experimentation, he found that placing the socket at a certain position, the signal improvement was optimized.

Please understand that this anomaly was found with a specific brand, size and model of dish and LNBF, so the results may vary with other dishes and/or other LNBFs.

Also, if you are having troubles getting Ku band reception currently with your setup, you may find the results of trying to achieve BOTH Ku and C-band simultaneously rather disappointing. Especially with a motorized dish. With a fixed point dish or if you leave your motorized dish aimed at one particular satellite that offers both bands, you would have better luck when starting out with this experiment.

I personally had barely touched on the endeavor of achieving both Ku and C band signals on a "mini-bud" when my new AZBox receiver arrived. I spent the remainder of the good weather months left in 2009 relocating my dish to a more optimum location for best LOS regarding the Ku band birds and getting to know my AZBox. Of course, everyone pretty much understands what happened to the good weather since the latter months of 2009. Next spring (if we ever see one) I will resume my own experimentations with Ku and C-Band "mini-bud" reception.

If you use the search engine for this forum (and not merely Google Search) you should be able to find more explicit information from Walrus on this subject, right here within this forum.

You might catch him on board here in the next few days or the following weekend. But, understand that we are all still trying to dig ourselves out from under all this snow. Walrus and I both live outside of town quite a ways and we often have to concern ourselves with clearing our own roads.

If I get a chance to talk with Walrus in the next few days, I will put a bug in his ear regarding this thread. If he has time, he may drop in and post some more specific and detailed information for you.

RADAR
 

1ADAM12

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Aug 4, 2009
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I'm a liitle new. Could you be a little clearer? " A wrench socket at 3:00 oclock" what does that mean?. I googled 'Walrus1957' and saw how to build the flat scalar; very nice! This sounds like a lot of fun. Could you suggest a brand/type "C" lnb?

Thanks

This may answer your questions.
 

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bic

Thread Starter
Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Sep 2, 2006
25
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British Columbia, Canada
Thanks 1Adam12 , LAK7 and AcWxRadar. A lot of decisions to make. I think I'm going to try the single c/ku lnb first with the homemade scalar ring. If that doesn't work well I'll try an offst C lnb as suggested. It seems not to many are trying this on a mini BUD so I'll post my results. Thanks for the help.

Of course this can't start until the Geosat 1100c arrives.
 

1ADAM12

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 4, 2009
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Thanks 1Adam12 , LAK7 and AcWxRadar. A lot of decisions to make. I think I'm going to try the single c/ku lnb first with the homemade scalar ring. If that doesn't work well I'll try an offst C lnb as suggested. It seems not to many are trying this on a mini BUD so I'll post my results. Thanks for the help.

Of course this can't start until the Geosat 1100c arrives.

If you use a BSC-621 or a DMX741, you'll want to bone up on MINIMO.
Search this site, not google.
 

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walrus1957

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Sep 24, 2008
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40 miles west of Omaha
If you plan on using a 1.2 meter offset dish then I recommend you use the flat scaler ring that comes with the LNBF. Any dishes smaller than 1.2 meter or f/d ratios greater than 0.55 seem to work better with a conical scaler. Currently I am using a 1.2 meter offset dish with a DMX241 LNBF and a metal socket inserted within the inner ring at 3:00 oclock position. I tested the BCS621-2 LNBF on this setup, it worked well for KU but C-band was a little weak. The BCS621 has a gain of 68db and a noise figure arournd 18K. The DMX241 has a sligthly higher gain around 70db, but the noise figure is significantly lower around 13K upping the signal quality greatly and bringing in a lot more C-band channels, almost all of them across the arc on the 1.2 meter dish. The addition of the metal socket to the scaler jumps the signal level and quality significantly!

I am attaching photos of my motorized 1.2 meter dish for C-band and the motorized KU 76cm dishes on my garage roof. Currently I am using a diseqc switch to select either the 76cm KU dish or the 1.2 meter C-band dish. However I beleive there is now a C/KU combo with the same specs for C-Band as the DMX241, possibly its the DMX741. I plan on purchasing one of these new combo LNBfs this spring and putting it on the 1.2 meter dish, then take down the 76cm dishes from the garage roof.

I am very happy with my mini bud, picking up FTA from all satellites from 139W through 55.5W, can't get any further east as there is a lot of trees to the east of the yard. Your test results may vary, dependent of your location. I live a few miles east of North Bend, roughly 40 miles northwest of Omaha NE. Here in the center of the nation is a hot spot for most satellite signals.

Your biggest obstical in setting up a dish like this is getting a sturdy mount and attachment from the motor tube to the dish that holds up in high winds. Next is finding the right placement of the LNBF. I will have to take a photo of the degree markings on the LNB tube and mounting bracket to give you a rough idea of where to start, I will try to do this and post back later today with the photo. The next thing is the placement of the scaler ring; as you move the ring toward and away from the dish you will find it peaking a several positions. The maximum peak appears to be when the scaler ring is at is closets position to the dish with the Feed tube extending about 1/8 inch into the rings.

C-band has added roughly 20 real quality FTA channels for me in addition to what I am receiving from KU. Of course to each his own, there are tons more Cband I receive, but would not watch on a regular basis. The wife would never allow me to put up a large Cband dish, the size of the 1.2 meter is just right. Come this spring she will be happy when I take down the two 76cm dishes from the garage roof. Then I will have to find a great permenant local in the side yard for the C/KU band combo dish. Maybe she will let me install two!

Here I maybe comparing apples to oranges, but most Cband signal levels are above 80% strength and 90% signal quality. These results are from the Coolsat 5000 receiver. There are some channels with lesser quality, RFDTV for example on 103W receiving at 72% signal quality but has good picture and audio even during inclimate weather. Speaking of weather, these photos where taken before the last snow storm, getting tired of digging out once a week! You should see the drifts in the back yard; 8 to 10 feet deep from the snow that blew off the corn field!
 

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chapelrun

SatelliteGuys Pro
Pub Member / Supporter
Feb 12, 2008
962
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Berryville, VA
This really got me thinking about "C" band

I have not setup any "C" band yet because I thought I would need a big dish.

I love this idea of a 1.2 M with a C/Ku LNBF.

I already have a GeoSat Pro 90 would that be large enough to start learning on or would it just be an exercise in frustration?

walrus1957, I really like the work you have done on the feed horns with a motorized dish. This makes me think some "C" band it possible for me even if only 10 to 15 channels.
:up
 

1ADAM12

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Aug 4, 2009
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I have not setup any "C" band yet because I thought I would need a big dish.

I love this idea of a 1.2 M with a C/Ku LNBF.

I already have a GeoSat Pro 90 would that be large enough to start learning on or would it just be an exercise in frustration?

walrus1957, I really like the work you have done on the feed horns with a motorized dish. This makes me think some "C" band it possible for me even if only 10 to 15 channels. :up

For a 90 cm offset dish the Walrus1957 cone scalar will yield you about the 10 to 15 channels. Do a google search of his screen name and you will find construction details.

For a 1.2 m offset dish the flat scalar works best with the feedhorn 1/8" behind the scalar opening.

I get the Virgin island network channels ThisTV and sportsmans channel plus NHK and horse racing.
 
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