Can’t Find 58w or 55w (1 Viewer)

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JFOK

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 12, 2012
921
658
Cape Cod - MA.
Hi all,

Doing some satellite dx-ing today and for the life of me, I can’t find 58w and 55w. I get 87w with the Bahama’s mux at 11.5.
I tried finding these two satellites by hooking up my SH 300HD to the coax that goes into my stb (Edision Mio). I got a strong reading for 58w with the sat finder at 275 on my ASC1, which I thought was a little low as 87w is 242 on the ASC1.
I moved a little farther east to 290 and got a weak signal when I inputed 55w to the sat finder.
I disconnected the sat finder, reconnected the coax to the stb and when I inputed 58w into my stb (at 275) where the sat finder said it was...nothing.
I continued to search in small increments moving my dish all the way to 395 using known strong transponders...nothing.
Any ideas ?
All other satellites down to 111 come in strong.
Thanks in advance.

John
 
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arlo

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
586
311
North Eastern
Tell me. How many counts do you have from 127 to 125 on your ASC-1? What is the difference?
Then let's say from 103 to 101? And 101 to 99?
We're trying to find the 2 degree incremental change from sats closer to the horizon versus those as the dish goes east towards the sky.
Example I get almost a flat 29-30 2 degree count difference from 127-125, 125-123...etc. All the way to 101-99.
As I move up it will decrease to something like 23-25 toward dish flop.
Hopefully your dish is tracking well. But you could try unbolting the motor and manually moving the actuator with a pair of vice grips using SignalMeter (Android) set to a known hot transponder.
A quick blind scan and sat chart would help you out with the unknowns. It happens.
Just remember where your dish was before so you can put it back to where it was before coupling the motor back up. I use the NASA channels on 127 for a reference. Hot tp's and easy to find.
Dish Finder will help get you in the ballpark. Push up and pull down on the dish rim to see if you might not be tracking well on a higher up sat you locate.
Hopefully the dish pivot bolts and bushings aren't worn letting the dish drop from where it used to be when setup.
I put pillow block bearings in my heavy-assed 'glass 12 footer. It was time!
 

JFOK

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 12, 2012
921
658
Cape Cod - MA.
Hi arlo,

Good to hear from you again.
To answer your questions....
I can’t see lower than 113w.
From 103 to 101 is 14 counts.
From 101 to 99 is 12 counts.
The dish itself scans the arc well.
For example, I receive the 107 ctv mux at 13.4 - 13.8 db. I receive the Bahamas mux
at the other end of the arc on 87, at 11.5 -11.8 db. My dish is an 8 foot solid.
I’ve been using the dish finder app, along with my satellite meter looking for a strong transponder on 58 with no luck. I was able to get both 58 and 55 at one time, so can’t figure out what the issue is.
Thanks for replying.

John
 

primestar31

SatelliteGuys Master
Lifetime Supporter
Mar 15, 2005
9,847
6,431
Beta Omicron Delta III
Hi arlo,

Good to hear from you again.
To answer your questions....
I can’t see lower than 113w.
From 103 to 101 is 14 counts.
From 101 to 99 is 12 counts.
The dish itself scans the arc well.
For example, I receive the 107 ctv mux at 13.4 - 13.8 db. I receive the Bahamas mux
at the other end of the arc on 87, at 11.5 -11.8 db. My dish is an 8 foot solid.
I’ve been using the dish finder app, along with my satellite meter looking for a strong transponder on 58 with no luck. I was able to get both 58 and 55 at one time, so can’t figure out what the issue is.
Thanks for replying.

John
I have an 8ft dish, but am using a G-box mover. Anyway, there's 200 counts between 87w and 55.5w. Only 180 from 87w to 58w. That's with a 24" Venture actuator, and I'm located in mid-Michigan. I think a G-box counts on both edges, so cut my counts in 1/2 to match yours.

103 - 101 is 29 counts
101 to 99 is 21 counts
 
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arlo

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
586
311
North Eastern
I was just seeding the idea of interpolating how many actuator encoder pulses it takes to move the dish 2 degrees through the arc.
Instead of taking big jumps from.....99 to 58. Try to find and scan in 97, 95, 91, 89. Take notes of the stored values.
Heck. I scan in everything. There might not be crap on them to watch. But I have them.
You might even find a point where you can snag a signal but they are weak. And pulling/pushing on the dish rim makes them stronger. I don't know. What was perfect yesterday might not be so today.
For me 58 is over center. It will flop if I didn't have a chunk of garage door spring and cable to pull back on the mount against the actuator arm.
I would work it a bit at a time. Besides. Hunting back and forth for a signal will probably knock your known lower arc positional counts out of whack. It does me. And my encoder is (last I remember) 20 ppr. Pretty high resolution.
 
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JFOK

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 12, 2012
921
658
Cape Cod - MA.
Hi guys,

Well I followed Primestar31’s advice first and had no luck, I scanned from 237 up to 260 and back down to 200 for 58w, with no luck... not a peep. I cut the position readings in half per his suggestion.
Will try arlo’s method tomorrow if it isnt too hot here.
Thanks for the advice.

John
 

primestar31

SatelliteGuys Master
Lifetime Supporter
Mar 15, 2005
9,847
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Hi guys,

Well I followed Primestar31’s advice first and had no luck, I scanned from 237 up to 260 and back down to 200 for 58w, with no luck... not a peep. I cut the position readings in half per his suggestion.
Will try arlo’s method tomorrow if it isnt too hot here.
Thanks for the advice.

John
So, you then tried around 80 - 100 counts from 87w?
 
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JFOK

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 12, 2012
921
658
Cape Cod - MA.
primestar31,

Yes...I went to the 100 count mark (337) and even above another 50 counts.
Then I slowly went back down past the 100 count mark to 200... nothing.
I just don't get it.
By the way I’m using 3840h 27060 as my reference transponder. I used to get this one with strong readings.

John
 

JFOK

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 12, 2012
921
658
Cape Cod - MA.
Hi all,

I went out to my dish yesterday evening, attached my satfinder to my lnbf and started from 350 (the count on my ASC1) and went down to 295...nothing. The closest satellite to that location 87w, was coming in strong before I started. I used 4260h 26590 as my reference transponder.
This one’s got me baffled.

John
 

arlo

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2016
586
311
North Eastern
Yeah. Sometime you just have to start all over. An ultra fine Sharpie to mark known references both on the dish and LNBF mount. Point the dish straight up in the arc and make sure the lnb 0 degree reference is straight up and down and not skewed. Again, Dish Finder and horizon references (trees) to get you aimed close.
99W has some hot transponders and the AFN channels have a populated guide.
I have an Edision osmio receiver and no external sat finder. A pita yes. But I find 'em all.
C and Ku if there's signal in my footprint.
But setting up the lnb position firstly is my priority. I use weak H & V tp's for final tweaking. Like on 103W.
In, out for highest strength. Then it's the 'happy medium' of skew. For me I find that for some reason (probes in the throat??) I may get high sig. strength on a H tp and the V tp is lower. Happy medium time. A little less to get a little more. Get it?
Just remember that when you go bumping that ASC-1 back and forth trying to locate sats you may find that ones you had the positions stored for are now several counts off.
Theoretical tech note. There is no motor braking in the actuator motor. And I don't know if the ASC-1 has classic DC internal motor braking OR if the counter shuts down WHEN the relay contacts open. So armature coast and pulse generator (reed switch/hall sensor/optical interruptor) drift is definitely going to happen. And it does!
Brian? Magic?? Gimme some older firmware to play with please.

Another trick for the elusive ones is I calculate where "It" should be. Stick the dish there. And do a blind scan.
Lyngsat charts suck. I use the ones from tvrosat. If a tp and channel list says 100% but says last updated in 2014...look out. Anyway. If you think that "you're there" and a blindscan comes up with nada. Bump the dish a few digits either way and blindscan again. Even if the signal is marginally there I've been able to snag channels on a scan and then go back to the scanned list and tweak in my dish position. All written down in a ring binder.
You already know that your 2 degree separation is X counts on the dish mover display. If it happens to be...err...14 counts. And you're hunting 25 either way. Yeah. You get it.
More coffee!
 
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JFOK

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 12, 2012
921
658
Cape Cod - MA.
Hi all,

In my continuing quest to find 55w and 58w, I found these 16 and 32 aspk transponders in the general vicinity of these two satellites last night. Does anyone know what satellite I was on ? Even though my stb found them, it wouldn’t “ load” them.
I’m attaching a photo of last night’s find.
Just ignore the 58w heading in the photo.
Thanks in advance.
7EA1BE3D-F4E0-437C-B1E9-9175BA01E5A1.jpeg


John
 

JFOK

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 12, 2012
921
658
Cape Cod - MA.
cyberham,

I scrolled through the entire list last night and didn't see anything that would tell me what satellite I was on.
BTW...why doesn't my stb save these transponders ?
Thanks.

John
 

cyberham

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 16, 2010
3,653
1,668
Nova Scotia
They don't get saved because the receiver doesn't actually "scan them in" like a regular tp. But I use Menu item 5 to "add service to a bouquet" with bouquet name of the satellite once you know which satellite they are from.

The fact you found 23 tps across a broad frequency range and none are from a recognizable source is a clue itself. Somebody with a big C dish will chime in soon. Brct203?

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
 
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FTA4PA

Satellite Guys Family
Lifetime Supporter
Nov 13, 2013
5,285
3,124
Central Pennsylvania
cyberham,

I scrolled through the entire list last night and didn't see anything that would tell me what satellite I was on.
BTW...why doesn't my stb save these transponders ?
Thanks.

John
I checked on Lyngsat and didn't see anything that matches those on 55W/58W or the sats near them. :(

When you press the green button to scan do you get any channels saved?
 
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JFOK

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 12, 2012
921
658
Cape Cod - MA.
cyberham and FTA4PA,

I also checked Lyngsat and tvrosat and couldn't match up any of these transponders.
When I press the green button to scan these in, nothing is saved

John.
 

FTA4PA

Satellite Guys Family
Lifetime Supporter
Nov 13, 2013
5,285
3,124
Central Pennsylvania
cyberham and FTA4PA,

I also checked Lyngsat and tvrosat and couldn't match up any of these transponders.
When I press the green button to scan these in, nothing is saved

John.
Have you tried bumping the dish east and/or west a click or two from it's current position and scanning again? I know in the past when I wasn't directly on a satellite I would sometimes get weird results for transponders and nothing would scan in.
 
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cyberham

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 16, 2010
3,653
1,668
Nova Scotia
There is a very strong CNN Brazil tp on 4095 L 40000 that you can receive for sure. You can program frequency and just motor using Positioner Setup until the signal pops in. That would give a reference.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
 
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