CES 2019: Cable Declares It Won’t Be ‘Second To The Door’ To 5G With ‘10G’ Branding Launch

Radioguy41

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So what, exactly, will this "full duplex" do to make cable more attractive? It's not like full duplex is new, it's decades old technology. Back in the early 1980's we installed full duplex modems between the mainframe and the outlying offices so now 35 years later it's hot technology??. Is the plan to reinvent ITV (Interactive TV), something first patented in 1994?
 

ncted

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So what, exactly, will this "full duplex" do to make cable more attractive? It's not like full duplex is new, it's decades old technology. Back in the early 1980's we installed full duplex modems between the mainframe and the outlying offices so now 35 years later it's hot technology??. Is the plan to reinvent ITV (Interactive TV), something first patented in 1994?
It is a misapplication of the term. They mean the same speeds up and down, like fiber. They actually mean "symmetrical," but "full duplex" sounds better to the marketing people. To me it sounds like a happy landlord. ;)
 
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Radioguy41

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OK, but what does that gain them? Seems to me it won't do a thing for cable TV so is the target Internet? If so having the same upload and download speeds doesn't exactly give me goose bumps. Nice but not world changing.
 

ncted

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OK, but what does that gain them? Seems to me it won't do a thing for cable TV so is the target Internet? If so having the same upload and download speeds doesn't exactly give me goose bumps. Nice but not world changing.
It gains them attention, which the media is almost exclusively focused on 5G now. Even Cable companies know that their future is as ISPs with vertical products. TV, Home Phone, and Mobile are all just ways to increase ARPU. "10G" just them waving their hand in the air to say, "we're doing cool stuff too!"
 

EarDemon

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I know it’s cool to hate the cable companies here, but here is the real explanation.

This has nothing at all to do with TV service, and everything to do with high speed internet.

Full Duplex DOCSIS® 3.1 Technology: Raising the Ante with Symmetric Gigabit Service - CableLabs

In short, the DOCSIS 3.1 Full Duplex standard allows cable companies to use their entire plant spectrum for both upstream and downstream simultaneously. Hence the term Full Duplex. The current D3/D3.1 standard allows for 108 MHz to 1.002 MHz down and 5 to 85 MHz up. Now 0 MHz to 1.002 MHz can be used for both up and down. Can you see why that is a big deal?

So no, full duplex is not a marketing buzzword for Symmetrical. Having the capability of symmetrical speeds is a result of plant and headend upgrades to Full Duplex. And going full duplex in theory will theoretically allow for 10 Gbps x 10 Gbps. nG has been nothing but meaningless marketing gimmick in the wireless industry for over a decade now. While I disagree with the cable industry’s jumping on the G bandwagon, in their case 10G means 10 Gigabits per seconds, the transfer rate of data. The wireless industry used quasi made up standards and their G means Generation. 10G with cable means something. 5G on cellular means nothing.

Having the same download and upload speeds may not give you goosebumps, but there’s a lot of people who would love it. And then there are those that mock cables slower upload speed when compared to fiber. D3.1FD will shut them up. Due to limits in current technology, the fastest upload cable companies currently offer is 50 - 60 Mbps and that is on their gigabit plans. So speed tiers are pretty unbalanced. The three big cable cos max upload out at 35 over provisioned to 40, the smaller cable cos and overbuilders promote 50 as their upload, usually overprovisioned to 60.

Full duplex will allow my 940 Mb x 40 Mb connection to be 940 Mb x 940 Mb. Even though I’m just a cable troll and my option doesn’t matter here, that is some pretty cool stuff, to me at least.
 

Juan

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I know it’s cool to hate the cable companies here, but here is the real explanation.

This has nothing at all to do with TV service, and everything to do with high speed internet.

Full Duplex DOCSIS 3.1 Technology: Raising the Ante with Symmetric Gigabit Service - CableLabs

In short, the DOCSIS 3.1 Full Duplex standard allows cable companies to use their entire plant spectrum for both upstream and downstream simultaneously. Hence the term Full Duplex. The current D3/D3.1 standard allows for 108 MHz to 1.002 MHz down and 5 to 85 MHz up. Now 0 MHz to 1.002 MHz can be used for both up and down. Can you see why that is a big deal?

So no, full duplex is not a marketing buzzword for Symmetrical. Having the capability of symmetrical speeds is a result of plant and headend upgrades to Full Duplex. And going full duplex in theory will theoretically allow for 10 Gbps x 10 Gbps. nG has been nothing but meaningless marketing gimmick in the wireless industry for over a decade now. While I disagree with the cable industry’s jumping on the G bandwagon, in their case 10G means 10 Gigabits per seconds, the transfer rate of data. The wireless industry used quasi made up standards and their G means Generation. 10G with cable means something. 5G on cellular means nothing.

Having the same download and upload speeds may not give you goosebumps, but there’s a lot of people who would love it. And then there are those that mock cables slower upload speed when compared to fiber. D3.1FD will shut them up. Due to limits in current technology, the fastest upload cable companies currently offer is 50 - 60 Mbps and that is on their gigabit plans. So speed tiers are pretty unbalanced. The three big cable cos max upload out at 35 over provisioned to 40, the smaller cable cos and overbuilders promote 50 as their upload, usually overprovisioned to 60.

Full duplex will allow my 940 Mb x 40 Mb connection to be 940 Mb x 940 Mb. Even though I’m just a cable troll and my option doesn’t matter here, that is some pretty cool stuff, to me at least.
I would be happy with 1 gig

Sent from my SM-G950U using the SatelliteGuys app!
 
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comfortably_numb

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Having the same download and upload speeds may not give you goosebumps, but there’s a lot of people who would love it.
It means nothing to me, because I live in a rural area where cable will NEVER be installed. 100mbps or 1gbps it matters not. They only make these investments in cities, where many people already have access to gigabit fiber.

I know, I know, the cities are where the $$ is. But its still frustrating.
 
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ncted

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I know it’s cool to hate the cable companies here, but here is the real explanation.

This has nothing at all to do with TV service, and everything to do with high speed internet.

Full Duplex DOCSIS® 3.1 Technology: Raising the Ante with Symmetric Gigabit Service - CableLabs

In short, the DOCSIS 3.1 Full Duplex standard allows cable companies to use their entire plant spectrum for both upstream and downstream simultaneously. Hence the term Full Duplex. The current D3/D3.1 standard allows for 108 MHz to 1.002 MHz down and 5 to 85 MHz up. Now 0 MHz to 1.002 MHz can be used for both up and down. Can you see why that is a big deal?

So no, full duplex is not a marketing buzzword for Symmetrical. Having the capability of symmetrical speeds is a result of plant and headend upgrades to Full Duplex. And going full duplex in theory will theoretically allow for 10 Gbps x 10 Gbps. nG has been nothing but meaningless marketing gimmick in the wireless industry for over a decade now. While I disagree with the cable industry’s jumping on the G bandwagon, in their case 10G means 10 Gigabits per seconds, the transfer rate of data. The wireless industry used quasi made up standards and their G means Generation. 10G with cable means something. 5G on cellular means nothing.

Having the same download and upload speeds may not give you goosebumps, but there’s a lot of people who would love it. And then there are those that mock cables slower upload speed when compared to fiber. D3.1FD will shut them up. Due to limits in current technology, the fastest upload cable companies currently offer is 50 - 60 Mbps and that is on their gigabit plans. So speed tiers are pretty unbalanced. The three big cable cos max upload out at 35 over provisioned to 40, the smaller cable cos and overbuilders promote 50 as their upload, usually overprovisioned to 60.

Full duplex will allow my 940 Mb x 40 Mb connection to be 940 Mb x 940 Mb. Even though I’m just a cable troll and my option doesn’t matter here, that is some pretty cool stuff, to me at least.
It is certainly a big deal to me. I didn't intend my post to come out quite so cynical.

In legacy terms, Full Duplex means you can send and receive at the same time. DOCSIS could do that from the start, if not at the same bandwidth. Symmetrical means the speeds/bandwidth are the same up and down. Clearly the cable industry is changing the use of those words, for whatever reason. IMHO it is because one sounds better (to them) than the other.

I agree that 10G (gigabit) is a more accurate term than 5G (generation). I actually wish they would use terms like GSM/GPRS/EDGE/UMTS/HSPA/LTE, but I agree that IMT-2020 is not customer-friendly in the same way. Although eMBB isn't terrible.

FWIW: DOCSIS 3.1 is a huge step forward for cable, and I think it is really cool. If I didn't have fiber, I would want DOCSIS 3.x. If they can deliver on their promises, I might prefer DOCSIS again one day. I am really curious to see what the real-world latency looks like compared to fiber. Either way, I don't foresee my need of wired Internet going away any time soon.
 

Radioguy41

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OK, much better explanation and I can see where businesses would be all tingly over it but the average homeowner? The only thing I "upload" is email, the rest is simple network requests and server response time (lag) is a much more noticeable participant in perceived "slowness" than actual upload line speed. If cable really wants to start making headway what they need to do is bring the costs down and also to stop being so pigheaded about trying to coerce you into buying over-priced TV service in order to get a fair price for Internet. For instance the local cable company charges 30% more for Internet if you don't also subscribe to their TV package. If I switched from Dish Flex to the cable companies TV package my costs would jump from $51 per month to $114 per month. That's not going to happen. So, they can yell and stomp all they want to about full duplex but I'm not seeing a plus side cost benefit for the average consumer.
 

harshness

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So the burning question: what is the residential use case for 1Gbps (or maybe even 10Mbps) upstream?

Current cable modems are already full duplex in the communications sense. Incoming and outgoing data are already handled on separate carriers. The term is being horribly misused.
 
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comfortably_numb

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So the burning question: what is the residential use case for 1Gbps (or maybe even 10Mbps) upstream?

Current cable modems are already full duplex in the communications sense. Incoming and outgoing data are already handled on separate carriers. The term is being horribly misused.
I could even be happy with an upload speed equal to my current download speed (21.5mbps). I do a lot of Slinging of HD content out of the house, to work, hotel etc. Currently the highest upload speed available at my location is 1.5mbps.
 

primestar31

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So the burning question: what is the residential use case for 1Gbps (or maybe even 10Mbps) upstream?

Current cable modems are already full duplex in the communications sense. Incoming and outgoing data are already handled on separate carriers. The term is being horribly misused.
I agree. The average household will never need this sort of speed. Not to mention what they'll pay with overage costs, because they aren't going to keep the "no data limits" for long, even if some companies do now.

I have 100down/11up, and it costs me $65.99 with Charter/Spectrum. I'd prefer something around $35 a month, and would happy as a clam with 25/3 for that price of $35 a month, if I could get it.
 

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