Choppy OTA Video on 722 (1 Viewer)

JoeKacz

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May 28, 2008
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Hello all.

I've had a recurring problem with my ViP 722 for some time now (at least a few months.) Searches throughout many forums have yielded no results, and few similar problems.

This does not happen frequently, but is very annoying when it does. When watching and OTA HD broadcast, with the OTA antenna going into my 722, there are spots of jumpy video, that is to say it looks like some lost frames... I apologize for not having a better description. It will happen for just a second or two, and often during close-ups or other scenes that (I imagine) have a lot of information to process. The audio is fine, no problems there. This was most noticeable during college basketball on my local CBS affiliate, however, I have recently seen it on at least two of other my local channels as well (NBC and FOX.) With the OTA antenna going directly into my display (Panasonic TH-50PZ77U) the picture is perfect, no jumpy or choppy video at all. I have only seen this problem with the OTA HD signals coming into the 722.

My 722 is set to 1080i and connected to my set via component (YPbPr) cables. I have tried all other resolution settings of the 722 (720p, 480p, etc.) and also tried connecting via HDMI, all to no avail. I should also note that using the "skip-back" procedure to rewind a short distance and watch the program using the buffer does not help either. Skipping backwards after seeing the jumpy video results in seeing the same jumpy video in the exact same spot again.

I am in the Lansing, MI DMA.

A couple of short conversations with Dish Network techs have provided no results. They simply left it at the problem being in the way the 722 is handling the signal. I am much appreciative of any help. Thank you!
 

8bitbytes

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Sep 8, 2003
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NoVA
Either your signal strength is too high or too low. You would think 100% would be good, but I have found that the DVR does not like 100%.
 

KAB

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What kind of signal strength are you getting on your OTA channels? 722s are known for not being the strongest OTA receiver. Have you ever tried adjusting your antenna? Just some thoughts.
 

JoeKacz

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May 28, 2008
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Either your signal strength is too high or too low. You would think 100% would be good, but I have found that the DVR does not like 100%.

What kind of signal strength are you getting on your OTA channels? 722s are known for not being the strongest OTA receiver. Have you ever tried adjusting your antenna? Just some thoughts.

Thanks for the ideas, guys. I should have mentioned this in my original post.
I've had this problem happen with signal strength anywhere from 50-60 (using an indoor antenna) to 100 (roof antenna.) Anything lower than mid-50s usually drops due to no signal. I've also tried using an attenuator to bring down the strength. No help.
 

Illinifan

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Jan 10, 2008
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Beavercreek, OH
Thanks for the ideas, guys. I should have mentioned this in my original post.
I've had this problem happen with signal strength anywhere from 50-60 (using an indoor antenna) to 100 (roof antenna.) Anything lower than mid-50s usually drops due to no signal. I've also tried using an attenuator to bring down the strength. No help.

You get a watchable picture with a 50-60 signal strength?! I start getting pixelation between 75 and 80 and at anything under 75, I get the "Lost Signal" error message.

Not to diminish your problem, but I would be happier with your results than I am with mine.
 

JoeKacz

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May 28, 2008
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How close to the towers are you? You could be suffering from multipath interference.

According to TVFool, the distances for my 4 major network locals vary from 10-20 miles. I'm a little suspect of that, however, as I'm fairly sure that my local Fox station is less than 5 miles from me. They could have moved their broadcast location, however. I've included my TVFool report if it's any help.
 

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JoeKacz

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May 28, 2008
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You get a watchable picture with a 50-60 signal strength?! I start getting pixelation between 75 and 80 and at anything under 75, I get the "Lost Signal" error message.

Not to diminish your problem, but I would be happier with your results than I am with mine.

It varies. Most times I lose it in the low 70s, other times I get some watchable signal down into the low 60s. The lowest I've ever seeen the strength is mid 50s, but that is not a common occurance by any means. My numbers were just to illustrate the ends of the spectrum. :)
 

8bitbytes

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Sep 8, 2003
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NoVA
According to TVFool, the distances for my 4 major network locals vary from 10-20 miles. I'm a little suspect of that, however, as I'm fairly sure that my local Fox station is less than 5 miles from me. They could have moved their broadcast location, however. I've included my TVFool report if it's any help.
Wow! Your channels are all over the place. What degree are you primarily aimed at? I would have to say that the Dish OTA is a peculiar piece of equipment and it probably is having a hard time with your location. You probably need to jump over into the OTA forum and see if someone else near you can tell you which antenna will serve you best to clean up the signal so your dvr won't choke on it.
 

JoeKacz

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May 28, 2008
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Wow! Your channels are all over the place. What degree are you primarily aimed at? I would have to say that the Dish OTA is a peculiar piece of equipment and it probably is having a hard time with your location. You probably need to jump over into the OTA forum and see if someone else near you can tell you which antenna will serve you best to clean up the signal so you dvr won't choke on it.

Thanks - I should do that. I might add that the only OTA channels that I ever really watch are the 4 big ones - CBS,ABC,FOX, and NBC. Of these, 3 (38,57,51) are clumped together in the south, with the CBS affiliate (59) being the loner at the east. I've seen this happen both on the stations to the south as well as the CBS in the east.

To answer your question, I believe I am primarily pointed to the south. That being said, all 3 of those 4 stations come in consistently in the 90s, with the exception being my Fox station which hovers somewhere in the mid 70s.
 

8bitbytes

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Sep 8, 2003
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NoVA
Thanks - I should do that. I might add that the only OTA channels that I ever really watch are the 4 big ones - CBS,ABC,FOX, and NBC. Of these, 3 (38,57,51) are clumped together in the south, with the CBS affiliate (59) being the loner at the east. I've seen this happen both on the stations to the south as well as the CBS in the east.

To answer your question, I believe I am primarily pointed to the south. That being said, all 3 of those 4 stations come in consistently in the 90s, with the exception being my Fox station which hovers somewhere in the mid 70s.
I also noticed that you are 1 mile from a transmitter. As you have found out, the newer tvs are better able to handle the interference problems. The Dish OTA card is not so smart. You might need to combine the signals from two very directional antennas. Somebody in the OTA forum should have a better idea.

Good luck!
 

Voyager6

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According to TVFool, the distances for my 4 major network locals vary from 10-20 miles. I'm a little suspect of that, however, as I'm fairly sure that my local Fox station is less than 5 miles from me. They could have moved their broadcast location, however. I've included my TVFool report if it's any help.
According to TVFool, 3 of your stations (Fox, NBC & ABC) are within 20 degrees of each other. I assume that your antenna is pointed at 181 to 185. This means that CBS is at a 80 degree angle to your antenna. No wonder you have reception problems. What antenna are you using? You may have better results if you aim your antenna towards 190 - 200 and pick up CBS from behind.
 

FCom911

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 25, 2008
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I too experience such inconsistent periods of what to appear as shuttering or dropping of frames (with no audio loss, I might add) on my 722, but I've only noticed it when I'm recording one or more channels, and/or playing back DVR recordings while the DVR is recording other channels. Even when the recording sessions are seemingly over, I still experience the residual frame drops or shutter.

I've given some thought to the anomalies and believe it could be due in part to constant streaming to the DVR's HD with content I haven't requested from Dish (i.e., STARZ VOD, Dish-On-Demand, TV Entertainment, etc.). I believe processing of live satellite, OTA transmissions, and DVR playback can possibly be impaired when too many inputs/outputs are operational at one given time (i.e., Tuner 1 + Tuner 2 + Tuner 3 + Dish streaming VOD content to DVR + Playing of DVR content). Any of those activities, in any order or combination, may overwhelm the 722's processor(s) by demanding to much time - content volume.

I have on occasion, reset and rebooted my 722 in an attempt to stop the shuttering. At times I'm successful, and others, not so fortunate.

P.S., My experiences of shuttering or frame dropping are not limited to OTA viewing — it's experienced in all forms of viewing via the 722.
 
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JoeKacz

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May 28, 2008
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I believe processing of live satellite, OTA transmissions, and DVR playback can possibly be impaired when too many inputs/outputs are operational at one given time (i.e., Tuner 1 + Tuner 2 + Tuner 3 + Dish streaming VOD content to DVR + Playing of DVR content).

If that is the case, then I guess I'm out of luck. :)
I should note, also, that I've tried both hard and soft resets with no effect.

Voyager6,
As I posted earlier, the lone station to the east is coming in consistently in the 90s, so I dont' have any trouble picking up that station with my current antenna direction.
 

8bitbytes

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 8, 2003
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NoVA
I believe processing of live satellite, OTA transmissions, and DVR playback can possibly be impaired when too many inputs/outputs are operational at one given time (i.e., Tuner 1 + Tuner 2 + Tuner 3 + Dish streaming VOD content to DVR + Playing of DVR content). Any of those activities, in any order or combination, may overwhelm the 722's processor(s) by demanding to much time - content volume.
Nah, I do this two or three times a week on my 622. In fact, I've had my dvr recording on all three tuners and I watched a movie from one of my external hard drives at the same time with no problem.

Stuttering and glitches are usually related to signal problems or high temperatures inside the dvr. I use a fan to pull heat out of my 622 and can't remember the last time I ever had a video or audio glitch.

I think OPs problem is signal. He is 1 mile from a low power transmitter, 10 miles from a super high power transmitter and several other channels are spread across a wide angle of degrees overlapping his favorites.
 

FCom911

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May 25, 2008
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Nah, I do this two or three times a week on my 622. In fact, I've had my dvr recording on all three tuners and I watched a movie from one of my external hard drives at the same time with no problem.

Stuttering and glitches are usually related to signal problems or high temperatures inside the dvr. I use a fan to pull heat out of my 622 and can't remember the last time I ever had a video or audio glitch.

I think OPs problem is signal. He is 1 mile from a low power transmitter, 10 miles from a super high power transmitter and several other channels are spread across a wide angle of degrees overlapping his favorites.

I'm sorry, I don't agree with you.

He wouldn't experience OTA dropped frames if signal strength were the issue. If the original content were corrupted at the station's head-end, yes. But if it were simply a signal strength issue, he would experience image pixelation, blocking, audio drops, and if severe enough, a system 'signal warning loss' screen on the 722.
 

8bitbytes

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 8, 2003
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NoVA
I'm sorry, I don't agree with you.

He wouldn't experience OTA dropped frames if signal strength were the issue. If the original content were corrupted at the station's head-end, yes. But if it were simply a signal strength issue, he would experience image pixelation, blocking, audio drops, and if severe enough, a system 'signal warning loss' screen on the 722.
Don't be sorry, pay attention.

I didn't say signal strength. He has competing signals overlapping his location causing reflections otherwise known as multipath interference. A 6.5KW transmitter 1 mile away does not help matters.
 

FCom911

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 25, 2008
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Don't be sorry, pay attention (this statement is an arrogant response, are you a systems engineer?).

I didn't say signal strength. He has competing signals overlapping his location causing reflections otherwise known as multipath interference. A 6.5KW transmitter 1 mile away does not help matters.

I don't see how multipathing would cause dropped frames. The data stream would be corrupted / interrupted / violated, thus breaking the sync. In relation to the OPs orientation to the transmitter, I could see over-modulation issues as well, but again, no sequentially consistent dropped frames. It just doesn't work that way.

Perhaps there's a bug (or bad hardware) in some 722s that makes it unstable under a variety of conditions; given my personal experiences with live OTA, live SAT, and DVR playback, as I have the same experiences; sporadic, yet consistent issues repeating on no preconceived pattern, random occasions, on all 3 feeds - One feed begins to shutter on the 722, they all begin to shutter; drop frames. Reboot.
 
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8bitbytes

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Sep 8, 2003
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NoVA
I don't see how multipathing would cause dropped frames. The data stream would be corrupted / interrupted / violated, thus breaking the sync. In relation to the OPs orientation to the transmitter, I could see over-modulation issues as well, but again, no sequentially consistent dropped frames. It just doesn't work that way.

Perhaps there's a bug (or bad hardware) in some 722s that makes it unstable under a variety of conditions; given my personal experiences with live OTA, live SAT, and DVR playback, as I have the same experiences; sporadic, yet consistent issues repeating on no preconceived pattern, random occasions, on all 3 feeds - One feed begins to shutter on the 722, they all begin to shutter; drop frames. Reboot.

No arrogance involved - don't put words in my mouth in order to build your argument if you don't want a response you can't abide by.

He said he thought it looked similar to dropped frames but he didn't know how to describe the problem.

I also suggested that he head over to the OTA forum so he could find others that live in his area and might have similar problems and that can make suggestions on solutions based on reality.

The 622 and 722 OTA cards have been commented on since the 622 first came out because it is sensitive to problems most other OTA devices have the capability of handling.

Speaking of arrogance, isn't jumping into a thread and telling someone they are wrong just because you don't THINK it works that way but you provide no links to documentation and evidence to support your feeling the very definition of arrogance? Occam's Razor has a lot more say so in a discussion like this until you can provide technical evidence based on the testing of his equipment and reception. Until then, how about you SUGGEST that maybe he ALSO consider he has a defective OTA card in his 722 and if no other solutions seem to make any difference to consider requesting tech support change out his 722.
 

8bitbytes

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 8, 2003
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NoVA
Perhaps there's a bug (or bad hardware) in some 722s that makes it unstable under a variety of conditions; given my personal experiences with live OTA, live SAT, and DVR playback, as I have the same experiences; sporadic, yet consistent issues repeating on no preconceived pattern, random occasions, on all 3 feeds - One feed begins to shutter on the 722, they all begin to shutter; drop frames. Reboot.
This situation is most commonly due to heat, which I also stated before as one of the possibilities, especially if all feeds are affected. Lots of discussion on that subject here in the forums as well.
 

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