CNET drops BluRay rating to 5.8/10 and revises review

[vurbano]

This is pretty funny now that Samsung is claiming that there is no hardware problem

http://reviews.cnet.com/Samsung_BD_P1000/4505-6463_7-31799185-2.html?tag=nav

Editor's note: This review has been updated and rerated to reflect testing of Toshiba's HD-DVD player as well as Samsung's admission that the BD-P1000 suffers from a manufacturing flaw that adversely affects its video quality. Existing owners of the BD-P1000 will be able to address the flaw when Samsung releases a firmware update, tentatively scheduled for September. We'll update this review as soon as the firmware fix becomes available.

Now that they compare to HD DVD, they trash it . LMAO

 

[gizzer777]

I particularly like this line from the review...

"With all that said, the Samsung BD-P1000 is in many ways less satisfying than a regular DVD player."

regular DVD player meaning maybe a $50 cheapo!

 

[vurbano]

CNet is just moronic IMO. NOW they are comparing to HD DVD AFTER they wrote the 1st review?

 

[berck]

This review is done by an ISF calibration expert. Has some interesting things to say on the Samsun and also has another article on the Toshiba.

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/michaeltlv/samsung_bd-p10001_review.html

 

[vurbano]

This review is done by an ISF calibration expert. Has some interesting things to say on the Samsun and also has another article on the Toshiba.

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/michaeltlv/samsung_bd-p10001_review.html

I think it qualifies as another irresponsible review. The guy has 3 displays and NONE of them display 1920x1080i NOR 1920x 1080p

"I’d just be inclined to wait until after the initial firmware fix is released to see how many of the issues are addressed. If Samsung addresses most of the items here, then definitely consider the player."

I got some news for the guy, the firmware fix has been done and it makes little difference.

"The unit is not a bad performer at all and in many ways excels over the Toshiba HD DVD player. It has better styling, an improved remote control, and potentially better upconversion performance than the Toshiba."

All of which has NOTHING to do with HIGH DEFINITION. But Hey you MIGHT get a good upconverter out of it for 1200 bucks?

 

[berck]

I think it qualifies as another irresponsible review. The guy has 3 displays and NONE of them display 1920x1080i NOR 1920x 1080p

Hmm, I've been watched many HDTV demo's. The plasma screens by far show a much superior picture to any of the RP, LCD, DLP etc. The only thing close is the tube tv's, but none of those get much bigger than 34".

BTW: HD is also 1280x720p. It can be argued that its a much better solution that the 1920x1080i (since you only see half of those interlaced lines at a time, and many of the camera's used are actually 1440x1080i). I will definitely say that 1920x1080p is superior to both, but the only thing we'll see in that format is with the new hi-def DVD's. It will be years before that ever shows up in OTA or satellite. Too much bandwidth required.

 

[Optical Serenity]

Wow...one of the many reasons to do homework before dropping a few dimes

 

[vurbano]

Hmm, I've been watched many HDTV demo's. The plasma screens by far show a much superior picture to any of the RP, LCD, DLP etc. The only thing close is the tube tv's, but none of those get much bigger than 34".

BTW: HD is also 1280x720p. It can be argued that its a much better solution that the 1920x1080i (since you only see half of those interlaced lines at a time, and many of the camera's used are actually 1440x1080i). I will definitely say that 1920x1080p is superior to both, but the only thing we'll see in that format is with the new hi-def DVD's. It will be years before that ever shows up in OTA or satellite. Too much bandwidth required.

Well the last time I checked OTA and Sat had nothing to do with this The fact is that if you want to compare the best PQ from BD or HD DVD you need 1080p display. Reviewing the machines on anything less, eliminates the PQ improvement that HD-A1 delivers above 720p. So inessence you have a race against a Ferrari (the HD-A1) vs a volkswagon beetle (BluRay). And since you have slapped a restrictor plate on the Ferrari the beetle is only losing by a couple car lengths. Hardly a competent comparison.

Some older sony cameras are 1440 but they are not used for major motion picture productions and have nothing to do with HD DVD or BluRay. Infact the majority of the movies are 35mm film which has far greater resolution then HD. As far as 720p vs 1080i goes, 1080i has far more pixels on still shots while 720p has an advantage during action sequences. Nevertheless this BD vs HD DVD issue is all about 1080p, Sonys chief marketing strategy for BluRay. An unneeded output resolution I might add that a good 1080p display can reconstruct properly from 1080i.

 

[teamerickson]

So inessence you have a race against a Ferrari (the HD-A1) vs a volkswagon beetle (BluRay).

Turbonium!

 

[berck]

Well the last time I checked OTA and Sat had nothing to do with this The fact is that if you want to compare the best PQ from BD or HD DVD you need 1080p display. Reviewing the machines on anything less, eliminates the PQ improvement that HD-A1 delivers above 720p. So inessence you have a race against a Ferrari (the HD-A1) vs a volkswagon beetle (BluRay). And since you have slapped a restrictor plate on the Ferrari the beetle is only losing by a couple car lengths. Hardly a competent comparison.

Some older sony cameras are 1440 but they are not used for major motion picture productions and have nothing to do with HD DVD or BluRay. Infact the majority of the movies are 35mm film which has far greater resolution then HD. As far as 720p vs 1080i goes, 1080i has far more pixels on still shots while 720p has an advantage during action sequences. Nevertheless this BD vs HD DVD issue is all about 1080p, Sonys chief marketing strategy for BluRay. An unneeded output resolution I might add that a good 1080p display can reconstruct properly from 1080i.

Last time I checked, the HD-A1 didn't even output 1080p, so whats your point? Besides, the Blu-ray seems to take the 1080p to 1080i and back to 1080p. From what I've read, nobody can tell much difference if its on a 1080p or 1080i display on either format. Again, until the units actually output real 1080p, its not going to matter that much on the display. Plasma has the superior picture quality and it doesn't support 1080p.

 

[teamerickson]

From what I've read, nobody can tell much difference if its on a 1080p or 1080i display on either format. Again, until the units actually output real 1080p, its not going to matter that much on the display.

These sentences are in contradiction of each other.

 

[vurbano]

Last time I checked, the HD-A1 didn't even output 1080p, so whats your point?

The point is 1080p output isnt required. My sammy properly deinterlaces and performs inverse telecine procedure to construct a perfect 1080p picture.

Besides, the Blu-ray seems to take the 1080p to 1080i and back to 1080p. From what I've read, nobody can tell much difference if its on a 1080p or 1080i display on either format.

Then you need to read more. The BLURR RAY machine is most likely bobbing 1080p and screwing it up. They might have a decent product if they ripped out the chip doing the 1080p to 1080i to 1080p gymnastics and doing them incorrectly! Id suggest a trip over to AVS because you have no clue how ignorant that statement sounds.

Again, until the units actually output real 1080p, its not going to matter that much on the display. Plasma has the superior picture quality and it doesn't support 1080p.

Sorry but 1280x 720p plasma is a much lower resolution than 1920x 1080p. Dont confuse your color saturation with resolution. FYI my new 1080p set also has a 10,000:1 contrast ratio. Many Plasmas are less.

 

[gizzer777]

Remember...we are

Remember, we are in the minority here ...Videophiles that is...Hell I am almost 60 and 720P on a Plasma looks just fine to me. I would only go HD in DVD's if the prices become reasonable and one of the formats wins beyond question. Not ready to replace my new Plasma and new pioneer Elite receiver just to accomodate a new format...until what I have does not work for me any more!

BLU RAY in its Samsung player did NOT look good AT ALL!

Considering the money I have blown through the years...I am out (for a while) Leave the early adpoters (like I was) to thje Youngins!

 

[berck]

Then you need to read more. The BLURR RAY machine is most likely bobbing 1080p and screwing it up. They might have a decent product if they ripped out the chip doing the 1080p to 1080i to 1080p gymnastics and doing them incorrectly! Id suggest a trip over to AVS because you have no clue how ignorant that statement sounds.

Funny, you basically said the same thing I did. But, I've read people say that they can't tell much difference between the output of the Blu-Ray at 1080i or 1080p. My mistake for not making that clear.

Sorry but 1280x 720p plasma is a much lower resolution than 1920x 1080p. Dont confuse your color saturation with resolution. FYI my new 1080p set also has a 10,000:1 contrast ratio. Many Plasmas are less.

I agree that 720p is about half the resolution at 1080p. You seem to mistake that you're not really getting 1080p. You're getting 1080i with chip generating the other 540 lines needed to make 1080p. Don't confuse higher pixel count with better picture quality.

As far as the contrast ratio, stated claims are not always accurate. The ISF calibrators find these values inaccurate by a factor of 10 many times. Seems like you're one to view specification and automatically assume it means things are better.

 

[vurbano]

Funny, you basically said the same thing I did. But, I've read people say that they can't tell much difference between the output of the Blu-Ray at 1080i or 1080p. My mistake for not making that clear.

Thats because the BD player is screwing up the conversion so badly

I agree that 720p is about half the resolution at 1080p.

I think you are better off with just that part.

You seem to mistake that you're not really getting 1080p.

you couldnt be more wrong. My HD DVD's are encoded 1080p/24 and the player decodes the signal to 1080i/60 and outputs it to my HLS5687W which performs a correct inverse telecine procedure (reverse 3/2 pulldown) to reconstruct the identical 1080p/24 data that is on the disk. Some TV's do this procedure incorrectly, by dropping a line and doubling the 540 (called bobbing) while some perform a correct inverse telecine procedure.

There is another issue you could be getting at called wobulation. I wouldnt know from your clumsy post though. Wobulation is the practice of using a 960 x 1080 chip to paint a 1920x1080p picture instead of using a 1920x1080 chip. The chip wobbles very quickly to paint the screen. But the wobble is so fast that the human eye cannot detect it. When given 1080p material the resultant picture is identical to the source.

The HLS5687W I use does wobble but does not bob. I think that is where youre confusion lies but I am not sure.

These sentences are in contradiction of each other.

Theres not a lot he says that makes any sense.

 

[berck]

you couldnt be more wrong. My HD DVD's are encoded 1080p/24 and the player decodes the signal to 1080i/60 and outputs it to my HLS5687W which performs a correct inverse telecine procedure (reverse 3/2 pulldown) to reconstruct the identical 1080p/24 data that is on the disk. Some TV's do this procedure incorrectly, by dropping a line and doubling the 540 (called bobbing) while some perform a correct inverse telecine procedure.

That fact that the unit is converting from 1080p/24 to 1080i/60 means you're not getting progressive images.

 

[vurbano]

That fact that the unit is converting from 1080p/24 to 1080i/60 means you're not getting progressive images.

1. WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! You get the exact same picture when inverse telecine is appiled correctly. This is one reason why the BD movies are fkd up? get it yet?


2. Gezus Christ The BD player is doing the same thing and then converting back to 1080p. And doing a crappy job of it.

Would a mod please explain what is going on to this guy before I lose it?

 

[Ilya]

Would a mod please explain what is going on to this guy before I lose it?

Ok, I can try to explain it in more details when I get home, but here is a quick (simplified) version:
If the source has only 24 frames per second (like most movies) and display shows 60 frames per second (like most TVs do), each frame is essentially shown more than once (2 or 3 times), so it really doesn't matter whether we pass the same frame twice (at 1080p60) or we pass one half of it first and then the second half of it next (1080i60), the resulting 1080p image will be essentially the same if reconstructed correctly by the TV set. There are no bits lost!

So, that 1080p over 1080i advantage really gives you nothing, unless you have a true 60-frame-per-second source. Which you don't!

 

[berck]

Ok, I can try to explain it in more details when I get home, but here is a quick (simplified) version:
If the source has only 24 frames per second (like most movies) and display shows 60 frames per second (like most TVs do), each frame is essentially shown more than once (2 or 3 times), so it really doesn't matter whether we pass the same frame twice (at 1080p60) or we pass one half of it first and then the second half of it next (1080i60), the resulting 1080p image will be essentially the same if reconstructed correctly by the TV set. There are no bits lost!

So that 1080p over 1080i advantage really gives you nothing, unless you have a true 60-frame-per-second source. Which you don't!

I like your explanation, thanks.

 

[jgantert]

Makes sence when explained, but anyone at a retail store is still going to say 1080p is better than 1080i.