Confusing Sub-Channels

larrykenney

larrykenney

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A month or so ago, KNTV and KSTS, both NBC Universal owned stations here in the San Francisco Bay Area, began transmitting the main program channel of the other station on their .3 sub-channel. So KNTV (RF 12) on Mt. San Bruno near San Francisco transmits NBC on 11.1, Cozi TV on 11.2 and the KSTS Telemundo programming as channel 48.3. KSTS (RF49) on Mt. Allison near San Jose transmits Telemundo on 48.1, Exitos on 48.2 and the KNTV NBC programming as 11.3.

Do any of you see a similar situation for stations in your area where the virtual channels coming from one transmitter are different channel numbers?

We have other stations that transmit the programming of their sister stations, but they use the channel number of the other station. Two PBS stations, KQED on 9.1, KQEH on 9.2 from Sutro Tower in San Francisco; KQEH on 54.1 and KQED on 54.2 from Mt. Allison. KDTV, Univision, is on 14.1 and KFSF, UniMas, is on 14.2 from Mt. Allison; KFSF is on 66.1 and KDTV is on 66.2 from Sutro Tower. The results are the same as what NBC is doing, just the channel numbering is different.

Clear as mud, eh?

Larry
 
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Mr Tony

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Do any of you see a similar situation for stations in your area where the virtual channels coming from one transmitter are different channel numbers?
Use to. When the DTV conversion happened Minneapolis FOX (KMSP) went back to RF9 and anemic power. So folks lost FOX (they were on UHF pre-DTV). So what they did was mirror a SD feed on their co-owned My which is on RF29. So for about 5 years you had
RF9
FOX HD 9-1
MY SD 29-2

RF29
MY HD 29-1
FOX SD 9-2
(when Bounce was added it went to 29-3...when Movies was added it went to 29-4)

That was discontinued last year for something different (which will be explained below)
We have other stations that transmit the programming of their sister stations, but they use the channel number of the other station. Two PBS stations, KQED on 9.1, KQEH on 9.2 from Sutro Tower in San Francisco; KQEH on 54.1 and KQED on 54.2 from Mt. Allison. KDTV, Univision, is on 14.1 and KFSF, UniMas, is on 14.2 from Mt. Allison; KFSF is on 66.1 and KDTV is on 66.2 from Sutro Tower. The results are the same as what NBC is doing, just the channel numbering is different.

Minneapolis has 3 duopolies where they just combine the PSIP stations together off 2 RF stations
Twin Cities Public Television (PBS)
RF34
2-1 KTCA PBS
2-2 Minnesota Channel
2-4 NOAA weather
RF23
2-3 TPT Life (combination of Create, local shows and PBS encore)...this was channel 17 in the analog days

Hubbard Broadcasting (the same folks who started USSB back in the day)
RF35
5-1 KSTP ABC
5-7 Heroes & Icons
RF45
5-2 KSTC Independent
5-3 MeTv
5-4 AntennaTV
5-6 ThisTV

FOX Broadcasting
RF29
9-1 FOX HD
9-2 MY HD
9-3 Movies!
RF9
9-4 Bounce (soon to be Buzzzr...once the contract is up. Univision is not O&O so they couldnt move it like the other markets)
9-9 FOX HD

Yes FOX is in HD on 2 different RF stations. RF29 for the indoor antenna folks and RF9 for the folks out further in the market.
 
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Albiondon

Albiondon

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Feb 23, 2010
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Cranesville,Pa. 16410
A month or so ago, KNTV and KSTS, both NBC Universal owned stations here in the San Francisco Bay Area, began transmitting the main program channel of the other station on their .3 sub-channel. So KNTV (RF 12) on Mt. San Bruno near San Francisco transmits NBC on 11.1, Cozi TV on 11.2 and the KSTS Telemundo programming as channel 48.3. KSTS (RF49) on Mt. Allison near San Jose transmits Telemundo on 48.1, Exitos on 48.2 and the KNTV NBC programming as 11.3.

Do any of you see a similar situation for stations in your area where the virtual channels coming from one transmitter are different channel numbers?

We have other stations that transmit the programming of their sister stations, but they use the channel number of the other station. Two PBS stations, KQED on 9.1, KQEH on 9.2 from Sutro Tower in San Francisco; KQEH on 54.1 and KQED on 54.2 from Mt. Allison. KDTV, Univision, is on 14.1 and KFSF, UniMas, is on 14.2 from Mt. Allison; KFSF is on 66.1 and KDTV is on 66.2 from Sutro Tower. The results are the same as what NBC is doing, just the channel numbering is different.

Clear as mud, eh?

Larry

The Erie,Pa. tv market isnt any better. WICU (NBC) on channel 12 and WSEE (CBS) on channel 35 are owned and run by Lilly Broadcasting a father,son team and starting this week both stations will run the same local newscast, and Nexstar owns WJET (ABC) on channel 24 and runs WFXP (FOX) on channel 66.The FCC really needs to close the loophole with the shared service agreements.
 
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Mr Tony

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.The FCC really needs to close the loophole with the shared service agreements.

They already have but that is not what this topic is about. this topic is about stations who have multiple PSIP numbers off one RF station
 
larrykenney

larrykenney

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Minneapolis appears to be as confusing as here in San Francisco, but what they've done makes sense for getting the signals where they're needed.

The only thing that looks weird is the FOX HD on 9-9. There appears to be no -5 through -8, so why the -9?
 
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Mr Tony

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Minneapolis appears to be as confusing as here in San Francisco, but what they've done makes sense for getting the signals where they're needed.
Yeah it makes sense because it puts all of one owners stations in one cluster

The only thing that looks weird is the FOX HD on 9-9. There appears to be no -5 through -8, so why the -9?

Easy to remember? So folks who get Fox via RF9 sees it as 9-9. I'm sure most people get it via the RF 29 transmitter because its UHF. I know they feed the RF29 transmitter to feed their translators (probably because that has FOX My and movies! On it)
 
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Mr Tony

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One other example is in the northern part of Duluth MN DMA. KRII has the following setup on RF11 (it's a satellite feed of KBJR NBC Duluth....they also run the CBS too)

11-1 NBC HD
11-2 CW
11-3 CBS SD
11-9 MY (they use the moniker My9)

But in Duluth My is on 6-2
 
larrykenney

larrykenney

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I feel sorry for all of the folks who live out in the boonies and have to watch the major network channels in SD. Are they at least transmitting it in 16:9 aspect ratio?

I guess we're lucky living in a large city where we get all of the major networks and pretty much all of the specialty networks with little effort. Check out my log of stations received to see what we have available: http://www.larrykenney.com/sfreceived.html
 
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Mr Tony

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I feel sorry for all of the folks who live out in the boonies and have to watch the major network channels in SD. Are they at least transmitting it in 16:9 aspect ratio?
Yes
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=Krii#station

I guess we're lucky living in a large city where we get all of the major networks and pretty much all of the specialty networks with little effort. l

I agree. when I lived in Minneapolis and then in Duluth it was really easy to pick up stations. Duluth I was 2 miles away from towers.

Now at my location I have to rely on analog translators, low-power digital translators or nothing as in the case of NBC. I'm still in the Minneapolis market but am 95 miles away. CBS is on a satellite station. ABC is analog. Fox is digital translator. Good thing with that is we get my as subchannel. Minneapolis its a separate station (both owned by fox).
NBC there is no station here
 
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Mr Tony

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one positive thing of having so few channels up here as it's easier to DX stations :)
 
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Mr Tony

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One of the more oddball ones is over in Salisbury, MD
WBOC 16 (CBS) RF station 21

16-1 CBS
16-2 AntennaTV
21-2 Fox (they ID as FOX 21)
 
bobvick

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Since Sinclair took over ABC, Birmingham is is as bad. Branded as ABC 33/40 and formerly on 33.1, 40.1, and 58.1, (58 is WBMA-LD the "official" ABC affiliate), Sinclair sold WCFT 33 and WJSU 40 to Armstrong Williams, and moved the full power ABC to sub channels of the MY affiliate and CW affiliate and kept it on a sub channel of 40, so, ABC in Birmingham is on 17.2, 40.2, 58.1, and 68.2, and it is called "ABC 33/40."
 
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Mr Tony

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Since Sinclair took over ABC, Birmingham is is as bad. Branded as ABC 33/40 and formerly on 33.1, 40.1, and 58.1, (58 is WBMA-LD the "official" ABC affiliate), Sinclair sold WCFT 33 and WJSU 40 to Armstrong Williams, and moved the full power ABC to sub channels of the MY affiliate and CW affiliate and kept it on a sub channel of 40, so, ABC in Birmingham is on 17.2, 40.2, 58.1, and 68.2, and it is called "ABC 33/40."
Lots of areas use oddball monikers for the channel numbers. But the actual thread is about stations that use oddball PSIP info where one RF station has different PSIP numbers. Now to use your example if say WABM 68 would map the ABC to say 40-1 and the main station is 68-1 thats what the topic is about ;)
 
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Mr Tony

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I guess we're lucky living in a large city where we get all of the major networks and pretty much all of the specialty networks with little effort.
to elaborate on my post above that is so true. I was in Minneapolis the last week (well the burbs) and I set up a "portable" antenna and my Tivo to record the subchannels there.
Its nice to basically take my 2 bay....say "you have been naughty. Go stand in the corner" and bam...all the full power stations nice and strong :)
(and even a couple of the low powered stations)
IMG 20150824 125406 415
 
larrykenney

larrykenney

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one positive thing of having so few channels up here as it's easier to DX stations :)
That would make working DX a lot more fun. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area within 100 miles of the city there are only 5 channels that don't have stations on them.
 
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Mr Tony

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That would make working DX a lot more fun.
it does :)
Only drawback is the DX is usually contained to the East to SW of me.

Here in the San Francisco Bay Area within 100 miles of the city there are only 5 channels that don't have stations on them.
There are times I wish I had more stations...especially with good programming on them :)
 

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