Congress likely to pass HD distant locals today!

[RBBrittain]

This bill won't go into effect until President Bush signs it right? So we can't request these channels until he does right?

Right. It won't get out of Congress before Wednesday (thanks to the IRS slip-up), and the President has until Dec. 3 (when the continuing resolution that passed along with it expires) to sign the bill. Even then, I'd wait for announcements from D* and E* (Charlie Chat, anyone?) to order.

 

[teknophyle]

I'm really confused? I am in Ft Lauderdale have have all of my locals and CBS East and West. Does that mean I can keep CBS east and west and that DirecTv will add the others distant networks with a waiver? Will I have that option? That would be great! Please tell me what this all about???

 

[Alan Gordon]

I'm almost sure it's outside the "grade B" signal, same as with new analog distants customers. However, you might want to re-read the language (I'm about to repost it in HTML) to verify if grandfathered distants customers inside "grade B" but outside "grade A" are eligible.

Assuming you are outside the "grade B" contour, you should be OK. I'm not sure whether grandfathered or waivered distants customers can get HD or not. (Of course, waivers are still possible for HD as well as SD.)

I live within "Grade A" coverage of an NBC and FOX, and within "Grade B" coverage area of an NBC and FOX as well. I also live within "Grade B" coverage area of two CBS affiliates and two ABC affiliates. The only networks that I do not fall under at least a "Grade B" signal is the WB! and (I think) UPN... but even though I'm willing to pay for them, I can't receive them.

I feel pretty certain that I get reapproved for a waiver for ABC, but I also feel pretty certain that I will FAIL to get reapproved for a waiver for CBS. This will mean a definate drop in my ability to watch CBS programming (of which I have become quite fond of recently).

I've waited a while for the new bill to pass, and now that it has, I'm happy for the people that it has helped, but disappointed that it screws me until DirecTV adds my locals. I lose CBS E&W, I lose CBS-HD E&W and I STILL don't have WB! or UPN on DirecTV. I do gain "Significantly Viewed" stations (CBS & ABC) once DirecTV adds my locals (I'm still hoping they will find room next year) and I might gain ABC-HD E&W if DirecTV goes ahead and adds ABC-HD, but until then, I'm pretty disappointed... here's hoping I'm wrong!

~Alan

 

[RBBrittain]

Herdfan:

1. Yes, one of the big NAB goals for this bill was to do away with distants where LIL was available. I might have to compare the text to Section 119 itself to get all the nuances, but as I read it, you'll probably have to choose between LIL and distants. (The 60-day provision is the initial election; if you elect distants, you then get to keep them until you get LIL.) After SHVERA, new customers won't be able to get distants if LIL is available to them.

2. For LIL markets, the answer is "yes"; to get digital distants, you MUST get LIL, unless you're a pre-SHVERA subscriber to digital distants. I'm not 100% sure if that's true for grandfathered analog distants customers, however.

3. As long as D* or E* can find a station that carries ANY network in HD, then if they carry it at full bandwidth and meet the time-zone restrictions, they can launch it to eligible customers. That's the beauty of the "statutory license" (or "compulsory license" as they call it in the music business); you don't have to get permission from the copyright owner (like E* did with CBS-HD), as long as you pay royalties where necessary (yes for Sec. 119 distants, and I think significantly-viewed as well; no for Sec. 122 LIL).

 

[mike123abc]

I expect it will take quite a while for E*/D* to get their computers all reprogrammed for this. They will have to essentially check each zip code what new locals they can provide based on what the local cable company(ies) are showing. Then add the channels to the subs in that zip code. I suspect it will take months before they complete the reprogramming.

 

[Alan Gordon]

I expect it will take quite a while for E*/D* to get their computers all reprogrammed for this. They will have to essentially check each zip code what new locals they can provide based on what the local cable company(ies) are showing. Then add the channels to the subs in that zip code. I suspect it will take months before they complete the reprogramming.

Since it looked like "Significantly Viewed" was going to happen for months now, Dish and DirecTV might already have laid out the information on what they can and can't broadcast as "Significantly Viewed", but I agree that it will take a while before they update their CSRs and computers.

It will also be interesting to see what the companies charge for locals with "significantly viewed" stations included. Dish Network charges $3.99 for our locals, $4.99 with WSB-TV (for qualifying subscribers), and $5.99 with Atlanta's CBS (if you qualify, which nobody does). MediaCom charges $14.99 for Broadcast Basic.

~Alan

 

[teknophyle]

This is still quite confusing? what does LIL mean? In the Miami/Ft Lauderdale market I have locals and CBS east and West. Will I lose CBS east and west? Are they really going to go through millions of accounts and turn it off if I do lose it? Will major markets like Miami be told that distants can NEVER be granted? Please explain

 

[RBBrittain]

I expect it will take quite a while for E*/D* to get their computers all reprogrammed for this. They will have to essentially check each zip code what new locals they can provide based on what the local cable company(ies) are showing. Then add the channels to the subs in that zip code. I suspect it will take months before they complete the reprogramming.

For significantly viewed, yes. First of all, the FCC must publish a list of eligible stations and communities within 60 days of enactment; this list is supposed to be posted on the FCC website and updated within 10 working days after new determinations are made. Then, they are supposed to have new rules written within one year of enactment.

Though nothing clearly says that D* and E* must wait for the FCC rules, it's entirely possible they may want to wait for them before adding significantly-viewed channels, especially if they're afraid of the "network nonduplication" and "syndex" rules that apply on the cable side, and MAY be applied to satellite by the final FCC rules.

I don't think they'll wait that long for HD distants; for now, only the folks that qualify for analog distants (who are already in their computers) can get them.

 

[RBBrittain]

This is still quite confusing? what does LIL mean? In the Miami/Ft Lauderdale market I have locals and CBS east and West. Will I lose CBS east and west? Are they really going to go through millions of accounts and turn it off if I do lose it? Will major markets like Miami be told that distants can NEVER be granted? Please explain

"LIL" means "local-into-local", or the practice of putting a *local* station on the satellite and rebroadcasting it back *into* the *local* area. If you have Miami/Fort Lauderdale locals and live in the Miami area ("DMA" or "Designated Market Area" as defined by Nielsen), then you have LIL.

What happens to your CBS East/West depends on whether they're HD or not. Miami is a "O&O" ("owned & operated" by CBS) market, so CBS-HD in your area is with CBS' full blessing, and is *not* affected by this bill. (I suspect it may be HD because you said "CBS east and west", not the specific cities.) Note that this is specific to CBS O&O markets; elsewhere, only those that presently qualify for distants (i.e., outside "grade-B" contour) can get CBS-HD, before or after this bill.

However, if you have the old-fashioned non-HD distants, it appears you WILL have to choose between them and your Miami locals. Furthermore, new customers in the Miami DMA won't be able to get distants, except for the few that live outside your carrier's Miami spotbeam.

 

[teknophyle]

Thanks, CBS WFOR and NBC WTVJ are O & O so I guess I would be able to keep CBS east and west right? Would I be able to get NBC east and west because they are O & O in Miami?

 

[teknophyle]

WFOR CH4 CBS in Miami is in HD however I do not have an HD tv. So what does that mean for CBS New York and LA?

 

[Alan Gordon]

Thanks, CBS WFOR and NBC WTVJ are O & O so I guess I would be able to keep CBS east and west right? Would I be able to get NBC east and west because they are O & O in Miami?

You'd be able to get CBS-HD East because the CBS is O&O, but SD distants do not work the same way. You might also be eligible for NBC-HD East, but not NBC East in SD.

~Alan

 

[teknophyle]

I do not have HD! So does that mean that DirecTv with turn off CBS east and west? ch 380 and 381? If so do you think I may get lucky and they won't look at every account?

 

[Alan Gordon]

I do not have HD! So does that mean that DirecTv with turn off CBS east and west? ch 380 and 381? If so do you think I may get lucky and they won't look at every account?

I figure they will look at every account (no matter how much I wish they'd ignore mine), but RB can explain this to you better as I haven't been paying a lot of attention to what happens when you already have locals (as DirecTV doesn't carry mine yet).

~Alan

 

[herdfan]

2. For LIL markets, the answer is "yes"; to get digital distants, you MUST get LIL, unless you're a pre-SHVERA subscriber to digital distants. I'm not 100% sure if that's true for grandfathered analog distants customers, however.

3. As long as D* or E* can find a station that carries ANY network in HD, then if they carry it at full bandwidth and meet the time-zone restrictions, they can launch it to eligible customers. That's the beauty of the "statutory license" (or "compulsory license" as they call it in the music business)

2. I would assume that I would be considered a pre-SHVERA 2004 distant digital sub. I had CBS-HD when it went up on D* last January and got NBC-HD when it went up in August. The Act is not quite clear on this issue. Subparagraph (ii) of 204(D) talks about eligible & lawful subs under this subparagraph. What is an eligible & lawful sub under this law?

3. So the law possibly gave a big "Screw You" to the president of ABC who said he was not in favor of letting DBS companies put ABC-HD up on the sats now really has no choice? So D* or E* could find any willing HD affiliate and use their signal as long as they meet the time and bandwidth restrictions.

And to further clarify, if any sub, be it with D* or E* had CBS-HD or NBC-HD on the date of the enactment, then they could receive any other out-of-market digital signal added to the lineup such as FOX-HD, ABC-HD, WB-HD or UPN-HD until such time as digital LIL became available to them?

Is this correct or where I am going wrong?

 

[RBBrittain]

I figure they will look at every account (no matter how much I wish they'd ignore mine), but RB can explain this to you better as I haven't been paying a lot of attention to what happens when you already have locals (as DirecTV doesn't carry mine yet).

~Alan

You are absolutely right. If you have analog distants in an LIL market (unless you can't receive LIL where you live), D* or E* must mail you a letter within 60 days after the President signs the omnibus spending bill, including SHVERA, into law. (If your market doesn't have LIL yet, you'll get "the letter" within 60 days after LIL is available to you.) This letter advises you that you can get LIL, and gives you 60 days to either switch to LIL or say you want to keep distants; unless you respond to this letter within the 60-day period saying you want to keep your distants, you WILL lose them. Afterwards, even if you elect to keep distants, you'll lose them if you sign up for LIL.

Though it's not 100% clear from the bill's language, it would appear that those who already subscribe to both LIL and distants must choose one or the other; and if you qualify for and want HD distants, you MUST choose LIL (unless you already have an HD distants package, i.e., CBS-HD on E*).

 

[douglasd]

Any idea how this will affect NY? I live 50 miles north of NYC and since the WTC fell, there are NO HD signals except CBS which broadcasts from the Empire State Bldg. Will this allow me to finally get NBC, ABC, FOX, PBS from another market? It's amazing that there is no other solution for a major market like NY.

 

[bransc]

question

I have a question about this new SHVERA and how it affects me. I "moved" to a white area in the middle of October. I currently get both dns and locals, including the HD network feeds. The HD network feeds is the reason I "moved". I really could care less about time shifting and all of that. I just want to be able to get the network stations in HD. Now with this new bill having passed, will I be allowed to keep both my locals and dns, in particular the hd feeds of the networks (hopefully ABC and FOX will be added soon)----in other words am I grandfathered? Or do I need to do something different to ensure I continue to get the hd network feeds. Thanks

 

[Alan Gordon]

2. I would assume that I would be considered a pre-SHVERA 2004 distant digital sub. I had CBS-HD when it went up on D* last January and got NBC-HD when it went up in August. The Act is not quite clear on this issue. Subparagraph (ii) of 204(D) talks about eligible & lawful subs under this subparagraph. What is an eligible & lawful sub under this law?

I got CBS E&W & CBS-HD E&W in August (I believe), so would I be grandfathered?! Also, I believe I got CBS-HD on a technicality, so I'm not sure if that would be considered "lawfully" or not...

~Alan

 

[RBBrittain]

2. I would assume that I would be considered a pre-SHVERA 2004 distant digital sub. I had CBS-HD when it went up on D* last January and got NBC-HD when it went up in August. The Act is not quite clear on this issue. Subparagraph (ii) of 204(D) talks about eligible & lawful subs under this subparagraph. What is an eligible & lawful sub under this law?

"Eligible" means you're in the "analog white area" (outside grade-B), or pass the future "digital white area" tests. If you're "eligible" and had that HD channel before SHVERA, then you're "lawful". (Even if you are inside grade-B, the way you qualified for CBS-HD and/or NBC-HD may still survive SHVERA, especially if you're in an O&O market for that network.)

3. So the law possibly gave a big "Screw You" to the president of ABC who said he was not in favor of letting DBS companies put ABC-HD up on the sats now really has no choice? So D* or E* could find any willing HD affiliate and use their signal as long as they meet the time and bandwidth restrictions.

As I understand it, in a word, yes; except I don't think even the HD affiliate has to be "willing". D* or E* can just take the signal, and they'll pay for it with royalties; neither ABC nor the affiliates can stop it, at least until SHVERA expires in 2009.

And to further clarify, if any sub, be it with D* or E* had CBS-HD or NBC-HD on the date of the enactment, then they could receive any other out-of-market digital signal added to the lineup such as FOX-HD, ABC-HD, WB-HD or UPN-HD until such time as digital LIL became available to them?

Is this correct or where I am going wrong?

Each digital distant would be qualified separately. Merely receiving CBS-HD or NBC-HD pre-SHVERA would not grandfather you for the other HD distants.