Conical Scalar Ring Test Results

[PopcornNMore]

Since it was so nice out today, I decided to experiment using the WS International conical scalar ring with a Geosat C-band LNBF on my 1.2m Channel Master dish. The receiver used was a Coolsat 4000 Pro.

The results were very disappointing. Any suggestions on how the signal could be improved using the conical scalar ring?

Below are the results:

GALAXY 16:
Channel - Signal without conical scalar ring - Signal with conical scalar ring
MyTV - 75% - 25%
WHT1 - 66% - 64%
Lesea - 66% - 64%
WHT2 - 66% - 64%
THIS - 66% - 64%
Networks - 66% - 64%
GMDX - 70% - 63%
HD Clear - 69% - 66%

GALAXY 17:
Channel - Signal without conical scalar ring - Signal with conical scalar ring
Jewelry - 72% - 63%
CV - 72% - 66%
WORD - 82% - 79%
WORD2 - 82% - 79%
EWTN - 73% - 71%

Every satellite tested had lower signal strengths once the conical scalar ring was attached.

Pictures are coming soon.

 

[PopcornNMore]

Pictures:

 

[brentb636]

I'll be interested to see your pics. My lnbf extends about 1 1/2" into the scalar ring. For me that seems to be the sweet spot. [edit] Looks to me like to need to get rid of the flat scalar ring and figure out how to mount the lnbf , and then put the conical scalar further down the throat of the feedhorn. If you look at Iceberg's pics of his setup, the feedhorn seems to extend about an inch or so into the conical scalar . Mine is actually 1 1/2" from the front edge of the conical scalar ring to the cap of the feedhorn.

 

[PopcornNMore]

I then switched to using my 1.8m Fortec dish and received channels that could not be received with the 1.2m Channel Master such as the FOX stations on Galaxy 17.

 

[brentb636]

I am getting those FOX stations on my 1.2 M setup. I suspect when you get it optimized your channelmaster will beat the results of my Fortec 1.2m.

 

[PopcornNMore]

I'll be interested to see your pics. My lnbf extends about 1 1/2" into the scalar ring. For me that seems to be the sweet spot. [edit] Looks to me like to need to get rid of the flat scalar ring and figure out how to mount the lnbf , and then put the conical scalar further down the throat of the feedhorn. If you look at Iceberg's pics of his setup, the feedhorn seems to extend about an inch or so into the conical scalar . Mine is actually 1 1/2" from the front edge of the conical scalar ring to the cap of the feedhorn.

I believe this is my problem. Because I need to use the flat scalar ring in order to attach the clamps to the feed supports the conical scalar ring can't be pushed back far enough. I only have enough room to tighten the screws around the conical scalar ring to the front of the LNBF. If I were the push the LNBF in closer the signal strength decreases.

 

[PopcornNMore]

I am getting those FOX stations on my 1.2 M setup. I suspect when you get it optimized your channelmaster will beat the results of my Fortec 1.2m.

I will keep trying this week after work. For the channels that could be received the signal strength for the most part matched the signal strength received by the 1.8m Fortec dish. I believe this is due to the commercial quality of the Channel Master 1.2m compared to the consumer 1.8m Fortec that just can't match the ideal shape needed due to assembly of the panels and the material used during manufacturing.

I would love to get my 1.8m Channel Master installed which is currently being stored in the garage. I believe it would outperform my Fortec 1.8m dish.

 

[brentb636]

Having to use a C-band holder on a Ku dish seems to limit options. Check this out at Sadoun. It seems to max out a 40mm throat, but the ad says "C-band lnbf" ,too. Might be adaptable. ?
C Ku Prime Focus Dishes LNBF Holder .

 

[PopcornNMore]

I just saw that Sadoun also doesn't have the LNBF pushed in far just like me. I might just need to tweak my setup more.

 

[PopcornNMore]

Having to use a C-band holder on a Ku dish seems to limit options. Check this out at Sadoun. It seems to max out a 40mm throat, but the ad says "C-band lnbf" ,too. Might be adaptable. ?
C Ku Prime Focus Dishes LNBF Holder .

I actually have one of those that came with the Fortec 1.8m dish I bought from Sadoun.

Last week I kept the KU LNBF in the center holder and attached the C-band LNBF using a fence clamp. I received some channels, but the results were not as good.

 

[brentb636]

Maybe Anole will find this thread. That lizard always has some ideas.

 

[Anole]

Now that you are using the flat scalar as a mounting bracket (an idea I heartily endorse), I think you need to move it another inch out on the LNB support arms.
Yes, away from the dish. The LNBF seems to have sufficient clear wall length.
That'll get it out of the way, and still leave you room to move the LNB in/out for focus.
Probably with no conical scalar.
Once done, I would suggest you then try moving -only- the conical scalar in/out while looking for Quality on your receiver.

I think you are very close. - :up

Offset Scalar performance comparison:
Communication Satellite

 

[brentb636]

I like that idea, Green one. Looks like lots of space on the support arms. How DO you do it !!!? Stogie will probably have something to say about this.

 

[Corrado]

I put one on my Prodelin dish that is used on AMC18 for 4DTV and it made a big difference. Mine is mounted forward of the flat scalar that holds the LNBF. I tried a variety of flat scalar positions prior and found it worked the same with or without one.

Perhaps the dish itself or what it's pointed at factors into the results achieved.

 

[PopcornNMore]

Now that you are using the flat scalar as a mounting bracket (an idea I heartily endorse), I think you need to move it another inch out on the LNB support arms.
Yes, away from the dish. The LNBF seems to have sufficient clear wall length.
That'll get it out of the way, and still leave you room to move the LNB in/out for focus.
Probably with no conical scalar.
Once done, I would suggest you then try moving -only- the conical scalar in/out while looking for Quality on your receiver.

I think you are very close. - :up

Offset Scalar performance comparison:
Communication Satellite

Excellent idea Anole! I was even thinking yesterday that the last time I attached the C-band scalar ring using the clamps I had it further out, but I could not find my old pictures. I will try your idea tonight after work.

I was also thinking that if I can't tweak it more by using the flat scalar ring and clamps I might remove them and reinstall the KU LNBF black Channel Master holder and use a hose clamp of some sort to hold the C-band LNBF on top. I would just need to lower the elevation, so that the C-band LNBF would be centered. This way the C-band LNBF would be perfectly centered and secured.

 

[PopcornNMore]

I also had no luck finding KCSG on Galaxy 19 or any channel for that matter on this satellite due to the strong religious channels on Galaxy 17 just two degrees away.

 

[PopcornNMore]

I am still surprised how some channels like EWTN, WORD, MyTV and others have signal strengths in the mid to high 70's using only a 4' dish. In fact, WORD had a 82% signal strength and all these are using the flat scalar ring. Once I have the conical scalar ring tweaked I should get great results. Like I had said before, I believe the 1.2m Channel Master performs as good as the 1.8m Fortec.

 

[Mr Tony]

I also had no luck finding KCSG on Galaxy 19 or any channel for that matter on this satellite due to the strong religious channels on Galaxy 17 just two degrees away.

G17 is 6 degrees away (91 to 97) and you should get KCSG just fine. I did on my 1.2m dish/conical ring

1st pic is KCSG and last ones are G17...Pansat 1500 reads pretty true. 30 is threshold in most cases

 

[Mr Tony]

I am still surprised how some channels like EWTN, WORD, MyTV and others have signal strengths in the mid to high 70's using only a 4' dish. In fact, WORD had a 82% signal strength and all these are using the flat scalar ring.

they have some magical powers helping them

Like I had said before, I believe the 1.2m Channel Master performs as good as the 1.8m Fortec.

eh not necessarily. Stuff on AMC1 & AMC3 I can lock with the 6 footer and not the 4 footer

 

[pendragon]

What's the f/D for the Channel Master? The conical scalar may be limiting the portion of the dish that the feed can see. Also, did you check the focal length to the bottom of the dish?