Cord Cutting - which box? Some comparisons (2 Viewers)

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schneid

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 27, 2007
806
76
In the Wind
The Harmony Hub can do a lot of the AppleTV features. I'm guessing that the Siri remote behaves somewhat like a track pad. When I say "track pad" I mean it in the laptop pointing device sense as opposed to a "joydisc" that sends compass directions. If it is really more an matter of sensing direction, the joydisc on a Harmony remote may well work.

The K600 appears to be uniquely designed for name brand televisions.

It supports Windows, Android, and iOS not just TV's. I assume AppleTV is iOS but I don't do fruit. Worked with my FireTV sticks/boxes too. Controls a laptop I have stuck in a cabinet HDMI'ed to AVR and OLED. Supports Shield. Probably even my phone. best thing is it uses dedicated receivers so you don't have to fool with pairing.

Link to K600

System Requirements

Bluetooth®


Windows® 8, 10 and above

macOS® 10.12 and above

WebOS (LG) v3.5 or later

Tizen (Samsung) v2.4 or later

Android TV v6 or later

Android 5.0 or later

iOS 5 and later

Unifying

Windows 7, 8, 10 or later

macOS 10.11 and above

Android TV v6 or later

WebOS (LG) v3.0 or later

Tizen (Samsung) v2.4 or later

Chrome OS™

USB port or Bluetooth low energy technology enabled device with keyboard support

Internet connection (only for optional software download)
 
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harshness

SatelliteGuys Master
May 5, 2007
16,825
2,879
Salem, OR
The Apple TV uses TVOS (a spin-off of iOS). I kinda doubt that it supports keyboards and mice but I don't have any "fruit" either.
TVOS Game Controller class said:
Input Elements
class GCControllerElement
An input associated with a physical control, such as a button or thumbstick.
class GCControllerAxisInput
A control element measuring movement along a particular axis.
class GCControllerButtonInput
A control element measuring a button press.
class GCControllerDirectionPad
A control element associated with a directional pad or a thumbstick.

It isn't quite a track pad but the movement along an axis thing is more than a directional pad.
 

smokey982

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 7, 2005
1,988
94
Cleveland, TN (Chattanooga Market)
So I picked up the Roku Ultra today. I haven’t been able to spend too much time playing around with it yet. But I know the Fox Sports app has some games in 4K. But my question is how do you know which games are in 4K? I only spent a few minutes on it but I didn’t see anything that told me if it was 4K or not.


Sent from my iPad using SatelliteGuys
 

osu1991

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 4, 2004
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Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
So I picked up the Roku Ultra today. I haven’t been able to spend too much time playing around with it yet. But I know the Fox Sports app has some games in 4K. But my question is how do you know which games are in 4K? I only spent a few minutes on it but I didn’t see anything that told me if it was 4K or not.


Sent from my iPad using SatelliteGuys

They will say Fox 4K or something on the tile for the live event. It’s been a while since I watched one of the Thursday games in the faux 1080p 4K upconvert, so I don’t remember the exact wording.
 

Bobby

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The next 4K showing on Fox Sports is the Super Bowl. You can look in the Guide on the app for 4K events. The guide only goes 7 days so you would have to look on Monday to see next Sunday’s schedule. You will clearly see 4K HDR for the game, events in front if the game, and after events.
 

schneid

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 27, 2007
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In the Wind
Everything I've read is that it is 1080P up-scaled to 4k. Not true 4K let alone HDR or Vision. The best picture will be achievable over-the-air from a local broadcaster and antenna. The streaming signal will be compressed and delayed.
 

Bobby

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Everything I've read is that it is 1080P up-scaled to 4k. Not true 4K let alone HDR or Vision. The best picture will be achievable over-the-air from a local broadcaster and antenna. The streaming signal will be compressed and delayed.
HDR can be added to any scale. I guarantee you that what was on FS1, channel 150, today during the 4K basketball game looked better than what was on 540-01. What streamed on the Fox Sports app was spectacular.
 

osu1991

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 4, 2004
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The app looks good for the NFL games I tried on 75in 4K Sony and LGs with Amazon 4K Fire sticks.

For the NFL games at least, Fox has said its 1080p and upscaled to 4K for the app and satellite/cable 4K broadcasts. The OTA/ Cable / Satellite / Streaming tv providers, the 1080p is downscaled to 720p.
 

wormil

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Aug 30, 2008
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North Carolina
Bought a new Fire 4k stick and it's a nice upgrade. Controls my tv, receiver, the remote is quieter, buttons softer to push, and it's faster. I didn't like the Fire stick when I first got one but it has grown on me and outlasted the Roku stick I bought around the same time.
 
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schneid

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Jun 27, 2007
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Well I have an antenna. You’re saying my OTA picture will look better than the Roku Fox Sports app in 4K?

Yep. The signal is broadcast in up-scaled 1080P. Most OTA broadcasts are in 720P. The streamers compress it to save bandwidth and it lose quality during decompression. They are selling bridges in Brooklyn too.

OTA broadcasts are always better than satellite and cable. Most TV's and DVR's now upscale themselves. 1080 is one pixel and 4k is four pixels for the same shot. When up-scaled, software fills in the other three dots "guessing" what would be there.

Re Fox's faux 4K:

Fox Sports to Broadcast Super Bowl LIV in UHD

I am sure there are more professional and technical explanations but claiming 4k 1080 is BS to be. Best picture would be OTA (antenna) on an LG OLED.
 

schneid

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 27, 2007
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In the Wind
More on Fox's 4K Super Bowl myth:

This is the first time the Super Bowl is streaming in 4K resolution, but it won't be true 4K

It's kind of like the Atmos soundbar myth. Atmos requires "height" speakers. It adds another dimension to traditional surround left/right, front/back. That being overhead sound. That requires overhead speakers and probably an array of several. I've opted for two on the ceiling behind me so I can have 7.1 DD+ and 5.1.2 Atmos. Not pure but the best I can do. They also sell projector speakers for Atmos. You mount them at a normal level and supposedly they bounce sound off the ceiling. We are all sheep on the way to market because of Marketing. Fake, Fake; fake, fake.

Real world test. I tried it last weekend. Fox has being ding these "4k" broadcasts for awhile. On my 65" LG OLED I tuned to my local Fox and then streamed to the Fox Sports app. Brighter, crisper OTA. Opinion of course.

That said, unless you are in Costco viewing side by side, you'll be fine. All newer TV's do a good job and Fox actually pushing 1080p instead of 720p is a HUGE improvement. If you have the luxury of an OTA signal, definitely go for that. I'd take that over streamed faux 4k.
 

harshness

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May 5, 2007
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You’re saying my OTA picture will look better than the Roku Fox Sports app in 4K?
Yep. The signal is broadcast in up-scaled 1080P. Most OTA broadcasts are in 720P. The streamers compress it to save bandwidth and it lose quality during decompression.
schneid's advice is wrong.

The games are captured in 1080p HDR. FOX broadcasts in 720p all the time (though some locals may upconvert it to 1080i). NFL casts are 1080p HDR downconverted to 720p SDR while Fox Sports NFL 4K coverage is 1080p HDR upconverted to 2160p HDR. Unless your TV isn't able to process what Fox Sports is sending (or you have poor broadband Internet), the 4K picture should be significantly better than the FOX broadcast owing to the better conversion ratio (1:2 versus 3:2) and the presence of HDR and WCG.

The idea that OTA is the best possible picture should have disappeared with the advent of subchannels but it clings to life thanks to bad guidance like this. All OTA is compressed and thanks to subchannels, it is typically compressed more than it used to be.
 

TheForce

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Oct 13, 2003
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The idea that OTA is the best possible picture should have disappeared with the advent of subchannels but it clings to life thanks to bad guidance like this. All OTA is compressed and thanks to subchannels, it is typically compressed more than it used to be.

I would agree that OTA looks better here than what I used to get with Dish Network "Locals" But it is not as good as I am now seeing with the apps on Apple TV, especially with Apple TV4K's upconversion processing. TIVO Edge is also very good too but for best image quality, I like Apple TV 4K.
 

lparsons21

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Jul 17, 2009
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In spite of your linked articles statements, it isn’t that cut and dried. Here some channels are better via antenna, others are not. And they kind of gloss over the guide data. Around here guide data for OTA is more often than not, just not there. So that ‘free’ viewing isn’t quite free if you need guide data.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 

harshness

SatelliteGuys Master
May 5, 2007
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Salem, OR
It's kind of like the Atmos soundbar myth. Atmos requires "height" speakers. It adds another dimension to traditional surround left/right, front/back. That being overhead sound. That requires overhead speakers and probably an array of several.
Atmos can be achieved with upward firing speakers and proper adjustment. Dolby officially recognizes these speakers (an sound bars) as "Dolby Atmos Enabled".


They also recommend that these speakers be mounted in front of the audience. They're so convinced that they say you can use both Atmos Enabled and overhead speakers in the same installation!
Brighter, crisper OTA. Opinion of course. All newer TV's do a good job and Fox actually pushing 1080p instead of 720p is a HUGE improvement. If you have the luxury of an OTA signal, definitely go for that. I'd take that over streamed faux 4k.
Since FOX isn't "pushing 1080p" to anyone (streaming or OTA) and is instead pushing faux 720p (or 1080i if a broadcaster normally upconverts its HD feed) OTA, I wonder if you're eyesight isn't in trouble. Some have long believed that if the contrast and color saturation were artificially high (aka "punched up") that the picture quality was the ideal. For most of the population, accurate reproduction is the ideal.
 
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harshness

SatelliteGuys Master
May 5, 2007
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Salem, OR
Why Free OTA TV Beats Cable on Picture Quality. Read here:

Why Free OTA TV Beats Cable on Picture Quality
This story would have us believe that there are no subchannels. While that may be largely the case in Canada, there can't be very many such broadcasts in the US.
This one is a little more scholarly but, as we know, everything depends on how many subchannels there are with OTA and how strapped your MPVD is for bandwidth.
 
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