D* installer part 2 Grrrr!

[colebert]

I had the same problem you did. Last year an installer came out and said it was "impossible" to get service because of the trees.

I bought and installed my own dish and put it exactly where he said it wouldn't work. All three birds get 90%+ signal strength.

Buy your own 3 LNB dish on ebay and borrow a friend's receiver to see if the tech is actually telling the truth.

 

[igator99]

What exactly is "the HD sat"? There is more than one; There is HD on a total of 5 DirecTV satellites; so depending on your HD LIL situation and you can get HD from 4 satellites. If you have no HD LIL, then you can get HD on 3 sats.

If you can hit one or two sats you should be able to get what you need from the rest. What sats are you hitting now? Sounds like a dish that needs to be moved to a better mount location. Any pics?

You can see the pics in the DirecTV installer thread Grrrrr. I currently hit the 101, 119
and 110 from a phase III dish on a very long pole. It was a dish installer that said he couldn't hit the 129 or 61.5. I got fed up with the Bruister and Associates techs that simply came out for five minutes and said they couldn't install the new DirecTV dish and booked it. What is HD LIL?

 

[Mr Tony]

merged the two threads together. Please keep it in one thread

HD LIL-HD Local in Local (your locals in HD)

Directv does use 61.5 or 129

 

[igator99]

merged the two threads together. Please keep it in one thread

HD LIL-HD Local in Local (your locals in HD)

Directv does use 61.5 or 129

I was told by a CSR that I could get HD right now just not any locals? What sat is that on? 110, 101 or 119? Are was she totally wrong? Where are the national HD programs on? Are they on any of those three sats? I'm getting really confused.

 

[osu1991]

They are spread out on all three I believe, as long as you don't need locals in hd via sat you can get all the national hd that directv offers right now with just the phase 3 dish looking at 101 110 119.

 

[igator99]

They are spread out on all three I believe, as long as you don't need locals in hd via sat you can get all the national hd that directv offers right now with just the phase 3 dish looking at 101 110 119.

I called DirecTV and I can get the national HD's. I don't care about the locals because I get them clear on an OTA antenna. The thing that really concerns me is that if these installers are correct I could lose my signal next year. With a 2 year committment I would be up a creek. I have asked several CSR's if I would still be committed if I couldn't get a signal but I've been given several answers. I've been left with the impression that D* would do everything they could to make sure I would get the signal if it was lost. So if I ran out to Circuit City tomorrow and got an HD reciever I would be rolling the dice.

 

[igator99]

I had the same problem you did. Last year an installer came out and said it was "impossible" to get service because of the trees.

I bought and installed my own dish and put it exactly where he said it wouldn't work. All three birds get 90%+ signal strength.

Buy your own 3 LNB dish on ebay and borrow a friend's receiver to see if the tech is actually telling the truth.

I already have the 3 lnb dish. Back when they came out and I tried to upgraded from
a dual lnb dish I got the same stuff. They came out and said it was impossible. I did a wacky but affective install that still works to this day. I don't know why moving the dish back 8 feet and shortening the pole wouldn't work. I suspect there are just to many jobs around here right now that even for a 100 more they are not willing to bury cables and plant a pole. That is the real difference between the sat industry and almost every other industry. You call Bell, cable, gas and electric they will move heaven and Earth to get their service into your house. You are never told by the phone or electric company that service is impossible in your area. Perhaps there are some areas deep in some woods but I've lived in a town of 300 people growing up and we had all those services. Until you can call a sat company and order service and be sure that it will be deliveried they will never fully be able to compete with cable. Even offering more channels and better reception. How many people would put up with the stuff I have to get an upgrade? I love sat and I'm very upset that in the very near future I might have to go back to cable. How much would it cost them to subcontract a tree topping company for customers? Sure you should pay more for that type of install but most of it should be subsidized by the company because in the long run they will still make a profit from you. I can't pay to have a tree surgeon come out and declare a tree dieseased then pay a few thousand to have it cut down all to get TV. It would be like the electric company asking you to pay for the polls and lines leading to your house.

 

[osu1991]

Actually for our ranch house I did have to pay the electric company for the pole the exterior pole lights and the wire that runs from the main transformer 100ft to the house, when I had them replaced last year because of an ice storm and just 40 years of wear and decay.

 

[grydlok]

I already have the 3 lnb dish. Back when they came out and I tried to upgraded from
a dual lnb dish I got the same stuff. They came out and said it was impossible. I did a wacky but affective install that still works to this day. I don't know why moving the dish back 8 feet and shortening the pole wouldn't work. I suspect there are just to many jobs around here right now that even for a 100 more they are not willing to bury cables and plant a pole. That is the real difference between the sat industry and almost every other industry. You call Bell, cable, gas and electric they will move heaven and Earth to get their service into your house. You are never told by the phone or electric company that service is impossible in your area. Perhaps there are some areas deep in some woods but I've lived in a town of 300 people growing up and we had all those services. Until you can call a sat company and order service and be sure that it will be deliveried they will never fully be able to compete with cable. Even offering more channels and better reception. How many people would put up with the stuff I have to get an upgrade? I love sat and I'm very upset that in the very near future I might have to go back to cable. How much would it cost them to subcontract a tree topping company for customers? Sure you should pay more for that type of install but most of it should be subsidized by the company because in the long run they will still make a profit from you. I can't pay to have a tree surgeon come out and declare a tree dieseased then pay a few thousand to have it cut down all to get TV. It would be like the electric company asking you to pay for the polls and lines leading to your house.

Any electric company only going to run power to your house, not in your house. You are on your own for the outlets. Telephone can charge you and it's only to your house. The problem for you is you have a NON-stardard installation that you did. Now you want somebody to come and upgrade your dish doing something non-stardard for free or a measly 100 dollars. If it really meant as much to you as you say it does; you could buy the dish, pole, and cable and do it yourself. No more people stepping through your ceilings, no more time taken waiting for somebody to come out. No more promises.

 

[igator99]

Any electric company only going to run power to your house, not in your house. You are on your own for the outlets. Telephone can charge you and it's only to your house. The problem for you is you have a NON-stardard installation that you did. Now you want somebody to come and upgrade your dish doing something non-stardard for free or a measly 100 dollars. If it really meant as much to you as you say it does; you could buy the dish, pole, and cable and do it yourself. No more people stepping through your ceilings, no more time taken waiting for somebody to come out. No more promises.

I know an electric company will not run power in your house but they will make sure it will get to your house. How much has cable paid out laying lines to homes?

Yes you are correct that is my problem. That non standard installation has given DirecTV 9,000 dollars over the last eight years. Not a bad return for zero investment. I've thought about doing it myself again but I would have to buy everything and if the "Expert" techs are right I will be doing it all for nothing. Stevo mentioned doing work for free and we got into it. What exactlly are you talking about? The company pays the techs. I understand from here it isn't much and certainly not enough to do what I understand from here is a custom job. So I offered the tech and extra 100. I've never been given a straight answer on how much a tech makes but if he gets a 100 from me and a 100 from the company and it takes him 2 hours to plant the pole and bury the cable then he is making 100 an hour. Not a bad wage. It was just a starting point. I was willing to go as high as 250 but that was all I could afford. A local company told me 750! No way.
I don't know how long it will take but at worst case I would think no more than three hours to plant a dish, tune it and bury cables. The lines to the house and rooms are already there. You are making me out to be the bad guy. If someone stepped through your ceiling would you pay 100 for it? That is what it ended up being because I bought the paint and did it myself to keep the cost down for the guy. What a bad person I am. What other industry does that? The sheet rock people were shocked that the company wasn't paying for it. They get cable and bug people stepping through roofs all the time. I trust the last installer or I'm simply sick of all the BS. I will keep my non standard setup for now. It has worked for three years and survived the worst national disaster in U.S. history. Somebody up there loves me....DirecTV!

 

[igator99]

Actually for our ranch house I did have to pay the electric company for the pole the exterior pole lights and the wire that runs from the main transformer 100ft to the house, when I had them replaced last year because of an ice storm and just 40 years of wear and decay.

What? Really? Your ranch house must really be in the boonies. I can see if it isn't economically in the companies intrest to spend thousands to get power to one or two homes. Katrina ripped telephone poles for over 300 miles around here yet I haven't heard of one person having to replace a pole or having to pay to have a line brought to their home. I really never heard of such a thing. What I was trying to say that I'm not the lone ranger when it comes to trees. Wouldn't it serve DirecTV to have some national or local tree company contracted for a flat fee to top trees or even cut them down to put the service at the customers home? Of course the customer would be expected to pay more but not near what it would cost them to do it on their own. I talked about tech certification which I think the industry really needs. I've seen no less than seven techs this Summer and they ranged from clueless to really seasonsed vets. Also for installers there needs to be standards in both pay and the job being done. If your car will not start and you take it to a mechanic he doesn't get paid a flat 100 fee for fixing your car. He has standards as far as how much labor he charges plus costs. There is no standards as far as the job a tech performs. I could go around calling myself a tech and slapping dishes to the side of a house and tunning it using a reciever and TV. If the job was to difficult I would just tell the customer it is impossible and go on to the next job. Techs need a pay scale. An easy job where a house is already wired and where there is a clean line of sight should pay less then one where the poor guy has to run wires and fight trees. They should get paid much more. As far as I can tell they get paid the same.

When I upgraded from dialup to DSL I hardly knew Bell was out here. The only thing that clued me in was the sound of a ditch witch digging the ditch. Is that type of equipment available to the techs? I have seen everything from professional looking company trucks (which can be misleading) to guys in a beat up pickup trucks with dishes and recievers in the cargo area. You can make me into a bad guy but think about it for a second. A guy considering sat called the industry in a post some place on this board as being shaddy. For John Q. Public it is a little shaddy. I don't blame the techs, local companies but I do blame DirecTV and Dish for not providing true standards, certification and providing their people the tools to get a job done nor the incentives. They are making billions (Don't tell me they haven't made a profit yet) with little or no investment in getting the service to customers.

 

[VIPERS-PIT]

To the person with HOA issue with trees. All you have to do is go outside and cut a line in the bark of the tree at the base going COMPLETELY around in a circle, it has to go all the way through the bark to work. The tree will quickly die and then they will have no choice but to let you fall it.

 

[igator99]

To the person with HOA issue with trees. All you have to do is go outside and cut a line in the bark of the tree at the base going COMPLETELY around in a circle, it has to go all the way through the bark to work. The tree will quickly die and then they will have no choice but to let you fall it.

I know that but the chance of it hitting my neighbors house or mine isn't one I'm willing to risk. You kind of prove my point that the sat business is very crazy. Your telephone company doesn't ask you to perhpas snipe your neighbors line. I guess one reason the sat companies don't get into tree topping because of HOA's. I have a pine tree that will smash into my house or my neighbors with the next tropical storm but I can't touch it without going the expensive process with my hoa.

 

[grydlok]

I know an electric company will not run power in your house but they will make sure it will get to your house. How much has cable paid out laying lines to homes?

Yes you are correct that is my problem. That non standard installation has given DirecTV 9,000 dollars over the last eight years. Not a bad return for zero investment. I've thought about doing it myself again but I would have to buy everything and if the "Expert" techs are right I will be doing it all for nothing. Stevo mentioned doing work for free and we got into it. What exactlly are you talking about? The company pays the techs. I understand from here it isn't much and certainly not enough to do what I understand from here is a custom job. So I offered the tech and extra 100. I've never been given a straight answer on how much a tech makes but if he gets a 100 from me and a 100 from the company and it takes him 2 hours to plant the pole and bury the cable then he is making 100 an hour. Not a bad wage. It was just a starting point. I was willing to go as high as 250 but that was all I could afford. A local company told me 750! No way.
I don't know how long it will take but at worst case I would think no more than three hours to plant a dish, tune it and bury cables. The lines to the house and rooms are already there. You are making me out to be the bad guy. If someone stepped through your ceiling would you pay 100 for it? That is what it ended up being because I bought the paint and did it myself to keep the cost down for the guy. What a bad person I am. What other industry does that? The sheet rock people were shocked that the company wasn't paying for it. They get cable and bug people stepping through roofs all the time. I trust the last installer or I'm simply sick of all the BS. I will keep my non standard setup for now. It has worked for three years and survived the worst national disaster in U.S. history. Somebody up there loves me....DirecTV!

I am not trying to make you out to be a bad guy, but if you did the 1st setup yourself why not do the next one yourself.

 

[VIPERS-PIT]

I know that but the chance of it hitting my neighbors house or mine isn't one I'm willing to risk. You kind of prove my point that the sat business is very crazy. Your telephone company doesn't ask you to perhpas snipe your neighbors line. I guess one reason the sat companies don't get into tree topping because of HOA's. I have a pine tree that will smash into my house or my neighbors with the next tropical storm but I can't touch it without going the expensive process with my hoa.

but when the tree dies the HOA will have to let you fall it. Pay a pro (with insurance) to do the work and let them risk damaging the house. Its not a sat company issue, its a HOA issue. And total crap.

 

[igator99]

but when the tree dies the HOA will have to let you fall it. Pay a pro (with insurance) to do the work and let them risk damaging the house. Its not a sat company issue, its a HOA issue. And total crap.

I would just feel god awful if it died and fell on his house or mine. Perhaps when the next big storm approaches I will get a chain saw and cut into the trees to make them fall away from either home. You are right about my HOA being total crap.

Anyone knows much about trees and the dying process? Some of the branches on these trees are as big as small trees. In fact Katrina knocked one down from my tree and a punched a hole in my neighboors roof. If the big limbs come falling down first that would be a problem.

 

[dishcomm]

The HSP is as close to a DTV company installer as you can get. They are the first line install company. The MSP is the local retailer. Problem with Igator's install is that the HSP will do the pole mount and trenching for free if they ever get off their butts and do the job they said they would. I'm trying to get him some help via a couple of guys in Bruister's home office.

Doc Bob is right. Seems kind of counter productive to hire someone and pay him so little that he has no desire to actually do any work. Better to pay a decent wage and get someone who is willing to produce. Things at Bruister started going downhill really fast when they brought in the company owned vehicles (COV's) last year and started paying those guys some pretty low hourly rates. The company has since raised the hourly rate, but not by much and they only did so because they plan to change the pay rate for the guys still using their own trucks (POV's) from piece rates (pay by the job) to hourly as well and they figured the change would go over easier if the hourly rates were a little higher. From what I understand the proposal is not being well recieved by the employees. Also in the past year the scope of work has increased as the pay levels steadily decreased. A tech like myself who made nearly $60k in 2004 today is barely making $40k. And by next year he'll be lucky to pull out $25-30k. To top it off companies like Bruister are spending a great deal of money to law firms to try and bust up and fend off unionizing efforts and using this as an excuse that they cannot afford to pay higher rates. When in fact if they had not cut pay rates while increasing the scope of work in the first place the employees would have never thought of unionizing. So, in effect the companies themselves have created their own whoa's. But getting them to realize this is nearly impossible.

Hope things work out Igator and that the info I passed on and contact I gave you helps out.

That's the ticket right there....The HSP'slilke Mastec are gobbnling up all the retailers and small fry D* install companies..They put the techs in compnay trcuks per D*'s policy and slash the pay rates..You end up with good installers that spend most of their time looking at the classified ads or they just get out of the business or the new guys who don't know dog poopie and don care to know. The wages are so low so as to not be abole to retain good experienced techs...
I used to work for an HSP thta was bought by Mastec....They stepped in and slashed our pay rates by 25%, took away many of the extras we got paid for like pole mounts and wall fishes. I hit the bricks.....I spoke to a MASTECH guy the other day.....He gets less than half of what I get for a Dish install for the same amount of receivers installed....he gets just over hal;f of what I make on a service call.....If he needs to reinstall the entire job, he gets the same amount.I get a reinstall fee added on...
This is why DTV is going down hill.....If it wasn't fo rthe Sunday Ticket ,DTV would be out of business..Even with Rupert Murdoch's ownership.....
Unionization is not the answer......It'll never work..The pay rates would increase and that cost would be passed on to the consumer that views cable as a necessity and satellite as a luxury..With the added cost, people will be reluctant to buy satellite....

 

[dishcomm]

Yes although I prepared him for what he was going to deal with. He had six other jobs on his schedule so he booked it. Moving that dish ten yards back should give them a decent shot at all the sats shouldn't it? It currently gets all the directv sats with 95+ signal strength.

"6 other jobs'
That's the other big issue..These techs get so loaded down with work that they cannot keep up with it all......In most cases if a tech rolls up on a job he knows is going ot take a while he will find a way to reschedule it in defernce to his other 5 or 6 cusomers that day....Granted ,there are some lazy assed good for nothing people that always will blow off a job that looks like it may take some effort..
Paying by the hour in this business invites poor completion rates....The hourly tech has no incentive to do a tought job becuase they get paid as long as they are on the job..
The local HSP here has 70 techs..I spoke to one of them last week..He said he has not had a day off since 6/19 because they are so slammed..He had just finished up 10 jobs..One add on and 9 service calls..He worked 13 hours.......

 

[dishcomm]

Inbetween those two trees on the other side of the driveway is where the older tech thought he could hit it. It is about 8 yards from where the pole is loacted. Would that greatly reduce the length of pole needed or not really?

Good luck......That's quite an edifice.....We won't put dishes on poles thta tall..Too much potential for trouble calls which we hte techs have to eat if it is our install.

looks to me like I need a better photo to make a fair determination of the line of sight for the 5 lnb set up

 

[dishcomm]

Correct...
You can also bore underneath the driveway to run cable
or you can trench along side of your driveway to run cable.
Also your current set up.... the pole does not need to be as high

Do you do driveway and sidewalk bores?....We don't touch them...no one is buying the EQ to do that kind of work. Especially if the customer balks at paying for the extra work..