D* Plans Its Own DVR For '05

[dmcclure]

From USA Today, 11/29/04:

New DVR may have video on demand
By David Lieberman, USA TODAY

NEW YORK — DirecTV is preparing to offer a digital video recorder (DVR) service in mid-2005 that could duplicate virtually every feature now available from current partner TiVo, plus provide video on demand similar to what's offered on cable, say executives of the company preparing the software.
About the only TiVo function the new service will not have, they say, is the ability to jump over commercials. That's an unadvertised TiVo feature users can activate with programming instructions widely available on the Internet.

The new service "will be simpler and faster" than TiVo's, says Abe Peled, CEO of NDS Group. His company plans to deliver its DVR software to DirecTV by April.

DirecTV remains tight-lipped about the NDS-powered DVR it will offer. Spokesman Bob Marsocci simply says that DirecTV plans to introduce "an alternate DVR product and service in the first half of next year."

It also won't disclose who's making decoders — the satellite receiver/DVR combo box — equipped for the new DVR service, although South Korea's Humax is known to be one company on the list.

Yet, comments by Peled and other executives about the NDS product offer a preview of what could be one of the key battles in the fast-growing DVR market. These computerlike devices enable users to easily schedule and record TV shows on a hard drive, as well as pause and replay live TV.

Rupert Murdoch is picking the fight. His News Corp. controls both NDS and DirecTV and is eager to see the new DVR service succeed. NDS also provides DirecTV's encryption technology and a DVR service for Murdoch's British Sky Broadcasting satellite service.

But TiVo can't afford to let DirecTV go. More than 61% of TiVo's 2.3 million DVRs belong to DirecTV subscribers who pay an extra $5 a month to get the TiVo service from the No. 1 satellite company. TiVo doesn't have many alternatives: Cable operators and EchoStar's Dish Network offer their own DVRs.

That's one reason TiVo shares fell 11% last week after it reported that 75% of its new subscribers in the third quarter came via DirecTV.

If DirecTV puts its marketing muscle behind NDS, then "TiVo is going to get hurt, obviously," says Vamsi Sistla, director of broadband research at ABI Research.

Peled says that a big selling point for his DVR is in the way it handles pay-per-view (PPV). With TiVo, users must agree to pay for a PPV movie before recording it for subsequent viewing. But the NDS system will enable DirecTV to signal a user's DVR to record several movies, making each available for viewing at any time.

Customers "pay when they watch (the movie), not when they record it," Peled says.

He adds that his system "will be less expensive for DirecTV" than TiVo and that the savings could be passed to consumers. "We are not a consumer brand. We don't own the customer data the way TiVo does. And we don't sell advertising that we send to the box."

TiVo declined to discuss the NDS challenge. But it told analysts last week to beware of what could be "vaporware," unfinished software.

"NDS has delayed their product offering into later next year," TiVo CEO Mike Ramsay said. "I think we have got a fairly clear runway with DirecTV that we certainly want to take advantage of. ... When it is time to compete, we will focus on that, too. And I think we'll do very well."

 

[Darkwing Duck]

So in essence they're hinting they'll have a DVR that's less than $99 and can do on-demand? Sign me up! Although I'm curious to see what they would offer, I could see them offering some Fox programming since they already told Comcast no (well rather they told comcast they wanted them to charge the subscribers and comcast laughed) and DirecTV could 'eat the cost' (although really since it's all coming out of Rupert's wallet it wouldn't matter) but would Time Warner be willing to play ball? Well it seems that the closer we get to its launch hopefully more information will be revealed.

 

[CWS_kahuna]

No mention of a new HD DVR. I wonder if the current tivo based HD DVR will be the only option for some time. I'd really like to see that price come down some though to make it more appealing.

 

[Neutron]

Good find!!

I hope an HD DVR is an option too. I love the HD DTivo but the cost keeps me away.

 

[hongcho]

I am sure the NDS SD DVR is their first priority. The HD DVR must be in the plan, but I'd think it will take some time because the HD DVR market is pretty small, still.

BTW, why are people so excited about On-Demand? I don't get it. Compared to a DVR with a movie channel, the only advantage is you get a newer one, maybe a couple months early? And I am sure, the On-Demand/PPV will have the limitation of how long you can keep.

Personally, I am more interested in the NDS software, whether it includes the multiroom/network options.

Hong.

 

[LonghornXP]

I am sure the NDS SD DVR is their first priority. The HD DVR must be in the plan, but I'd think it will take some time because the HD DVR market is pretty small, still.

BTW, why are people so excited about On-Demand? I don't get it. Compared to a DVR with a movie channel, the only advantage is you get a newer one, maybe a couple months early? And I am sure, the On-Demand/PPV will have the limitation of how long you can keep.

Personally, I am more interested in the NDS software, whether it includes the multiroom/network options.

Hong.

I've got some of that info for ya. Firstly this software will include multiroom viewing using existing wiring similiar to what Voom will be offering but without needing a wireless box for each room. What I don't know yet is if current non DVR boxes could playback recorded shows. I'm hearing both yes and no. What I'm gathering is that if this is done they would have a new channel that would allow other boxes to just tune to that new channel and view and select the list of shows and the DVR that houses the show would just send it and the software would allow the customer to FF, RW and pause the show. But again the multiroom viewing between DVRs will be included but I'm not sure if non DVR boxes can playback shows on the DVRs.

Also incase this wasn't made clear to some I did ask about the ad skipping and the new NDS DVR will still allow fast forwarding ability but no way to do a 30 second skip even with a hack because they will make sure no hack is available. Also I'm hearing that these new DVRs might implement an ad popup type thing during fast forwarding of ads similiar to what Tivo will do soon.

Also an HD DVR is in the works but that might take until the end of the year (year 2005) and would be much cheaper and would also have multiroom viewing ability as well.

 

[zubinh]

Not being able to "skip" over ads is a major benefit I would miss. It wont take too long before Tivo implements a software update to remove our current ability to do this.

Hopefully Voom/E* wont do this. Dear Charlie: Can you please hurry up and buy Voom, roll out a DVR. I'll come back!!

 

[shappyss]

the way I see it is we can sill FF>> but you cant use 30 second skip. Is this what they mean, or will there be no skipping commecials at all?

 

[LonghornXP]

the way I see it is we can sill FF>> but you cant use 30 second skip. Is this what they mean, or will there be no skipping commecials at all?

You can still FF but you just won't be able to skip using a 30 second skip type of button. I've asked many people about this and everyone told me that you can still FF over an ad.

 

[hongcho]

You can FF over the commercials (without it most DVRs will be a dead weight). They won't allow 30-second skips.

BTW, the problem I have with "30-second skip" is that not all commercials are in 30-second units. So, even with it, you either over-shoot or under-shoot, and usually are not where you are exactly, and will go back and forth sometimes, and have to watch some part of the commercials.

With FF, you at least get to see what's going on and with TiVo's start-a-bit-early-when-playing-from-FF, it ain't that bad. Of course, you also end up watching some portion of the commercials with this, but more often you know where you are when it starts playing.

Hong.

 

[cr0mag]

Sooooo.... did a whole lot of people (including me) waste money on the D* tivo boxes that they bought recently? Will they work with the new boxes for multiroom applications?

 

[hongcho]

I've got some of that info for ya. Firstly this software will include multiroom viewing using existing wiring similiar to what Voom will be offering but without needing a wireless box for each room. What I don't know yet is if current non DVR boxes could playback recorded shows. I'm hearing both yes and no. What I'm gathering is that if this is done they would have a new channel that would allow other boxes to just tune to that new channel and view and select the list of shows and the DVR that houses the show would just send it and the software would allow the customer to FF, RW and pause the show. But again the multiroom viewing between DVRs will be included but I'm not sure if non DVR boxes can playback shows on the DVRs.

Also incase this wasn't made clear to some I did ask about the ad skipping and the new NDS DVR will still allow fast forwarding ability but no way to do a 30 second skip even with a hack because they will make sure no hack is available. Also I'm hearing that these new DVRs might implement an ad popup type thing during fast forwarding of ads similiar to what Tivo will do soon.

Also an HD DVR is in the works but that might take until the end of the year (year 2005) and would be much cheaper and would also have multiroom viewing ability as well.

As expected. It's good to know although I only have one receiver for now. I don't expect non-DVR receivers to play recorded shows: not only do they need to update the software for many many different hardware platforms, they also need to somehow update all those remote controls (well, it may not be that expensive, though).

The NDS first needs to prove their DVR software on the SD DVR units. The HD DVR units are small and as far as the software goes, going from SD to HD shouldn't take that much efforts.

Anyway, I am now eagerly waiting for the NDS middleware software for networked-DVRs. If that works, my wife and I may seriously think about setting another DVR up in the bedroom.

Hong.

 

[hongcho]

> Sooooo.... did a whole lot of people (including me) waste money on the D* tivo boxes that they bought recently? Will they work with the new boxes for multiroom applications?

Right now all DirecTV DVRs are TiVo-based. Even if they come out with new NDS DVRs, I doubt the NDS networked-DVR software would be that popular without somehow supporting existing boxes.

What I've heard is that the networked-DVR software is a middleware that will run on top of (or side-by-side with) the TiVo software.

Hong.

 

[hongcho]

Also, Longhorn XP, the above article mentions April 2005 as a target date by NDS. But is that for the NDS DVR software or the NDS networked-DVR middleware update?

Somehow I feel that they would work on their (new?) DVR platform first and deal with the TiVo's later...

Hong.

 

[LonghornXP]

I'm hearing you can kiss these few features good-bye for the Tivo platform. This will be only for NDS DVR boxes. Now I'm being told that when they release the DVRs they should have the multiroom middleware built into them. Now again you must understand that the multiroom viewing will not use or need networking hardware it will work entirely using the existing wiring in the house and could very well require a new multiswitch.

Now I've asked about the chance of using networking USB adapters to play music and such from a computer and none of my contacts have an answer for this but they will be asking. I'm thinking they might give that ability but the multiroom viewing won't require or use a network adapter. They can do both but just differently.

Also again I was told that there was a chance that current DirecTivos could get a software update to add the middleware for multiroom viewing but I've been told don't count on it anytime soon. I'm gathering that DirecTV won't upgrade current DTivos because they want to get as many DTivos customers as they can to switch to the New NDS DVR but they won't be forcing customers to move and your Tivo boxes will still work fine but what you have now is what you will have in 2 years besides some minor updates and bug fixes.

That isn't good news for Tivo but I always thought Tivo went about their business in such a bad way. Charging per box was what bothered me. I thought for most customers that charging 12.95/month for one box was bad enough but charging it for each box was worse. Even the 6.95/month charge for each extra box on the account is kinda high. I think it would be better for Tivo to charge on 5 bucks per account for those who use another means for guide data and updates than their phone systems such as high speed internet connection via USB adapter. If they are charging that price to pay for their phone lines why should they charge customers who would rather use their paid for HSI service.

Now I can afford it but their success isn't going to come from customers like myself but from customers who don't have money to blow out of their asses.

 

[LonghornXP]

Also, Longhorn XP, the above article mentions April 2005 as a target date by NDS. But is that for the NDS DVR software or the NDS networked-DVR middleware update?

Somehow I feel that they would work on their (new?) DVR platform first and deal with the TiVo's later...

Hong.

That target date is for the NDS software which includes the all the new features including multiroom viewing. Now that is just NDS providing the software. It still must be implemented into whatever box they will use and tested. After that it will need to be RTM, built, tested again and shipped. I might expect it to be towards the end of 2005 but that is what I'm guessing unless the software has been tested and built for their boxes and if it just needs to be loaded and shipped it could be within a few months after April.

I know I'm getting complex here but I don't have all the bits and pieces as of yet. If I had to guess the box would be out on the market for us to buy sometime in the summer around July maybe.

 

[Stargazer]

Perhaps the way to go with these receivers is to have one box for the access, one box for the tuners, and another one for the hard drive for DVR functionality. One could upgrade each one depending on what is needed. One may even be able to plug it into the wall and access it from the other rooms through the electrical outlet.

 

[hongcho]

> I'm hearing you can kiss these few features good-bye for the Tivo platform.

Thanks for that information. Then, I've lost my interest in the NDS software for now. I am sure it will be a big hit if the NDS DVR box comes with a leasing option. I really have to see who the basic NDS DVR software works, but from what I hear from the Sky+ users, it isn't that compelling.

Anyhow, by mid- to late-2005, I think I get a good idea of whether to stay with DirecTV or try Comcast 6412 with (hopefully) MSTV FE 1.7. Personally, I don't consider Voom as an alternative (even if they came out with an HD DVR next year), but I think Comcast is. If TiVo can somehow come up with a CableCard HD unit, then that would be a plus.

For now, my wife and I are a happy camper with an HD DirecTiVo. And from the way it looks, until DirecTV moves any of their HD channels to MPEG-4 AVC/HP (thus making my STB useless) (we don't consider VOD, online betting, interactive contents that compelling), we'd be happy with the box for more years to come.

Hong.