Digital Cable/QAM

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davidryder

Thread Starter
New Member
Jun 4, 2008
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Hi! I have (just received today) a WinTV HVR-1800 and when I tried setting up my TV signal in Vista Home Premium (Media Center) it only found signal for cable tv, nothing digital. I found all the channels 2-99 including the guide channel but nothing like 603, 604, etc.

Am I just not able to tune digital channels without a STB?
 
S

Saxamoophone

SatelliteGuys Family
Aug 4, 2006
118
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Negatory.

You need a Cable-Card to access encoded channels, which includes just about all the digitals channels Brighthouse offers (minus the HD Locals which aren't protected).

I think ATI makes a hardware device that reads in cable cards, but, it doesn't support SDV yet. With Brighthouse making the move to SDV soon, I would hold off on buying it for awhile.
 
D

davidryder

Thread Starter
New Member
Jun 4, 2008
3
0
Thanks for the info.

Are the local HD channels considered 603, 604, etc?
 
S

Saxamoophone

SatelliteGuys Family
Aug 4, 2006
118
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I'm not sure exactly how the HD channels work, but I have a HDTV that I use mostly for gaming hooked up just by basic co-ax cable and it picks up the HD channels as the over-the-air numbers such as 2-1, 6-2, 9-1, etc etc.
 
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mbbrumm

Member
Aug 10, 2007
12
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I have been using a QAM tuner on my PC and have 2 HD sets with built in QAM. Bright house has about 42 un encrypted digital channels on the wire. Below is the lineup that I get on the QAM tuners.
CH76 - 1 View WOFLDT 135 2-13-5 True
CH76 - 2 View WESHDT 102 3-10-2 True
CH76 - 12 View WESHDT2 103 4-10-3 True
CH77 - 7 View WACXDT 131 5-13-1 True
CH77 - 9 View WOPX 156 6-15-6 True
CH77 - 10 View WKCF False
CH77 - 12 View WKMG False
CH79 - 8 View WCJB 121 27-12-1 True
CH79 - 9 View WTGL 145 7-14-5 True
CH79 - 11 View WTFT False
CH79 - 12 View WOFL False
CH80 - 1 View WFTVDT 109 9-10-9 True
CH80 - 2 View WKCFDT 118 10-11-8 True
CH80 - 8 View WFTVDT2 110 11-1-4 True
CH83 - 2 View TWC 166 12-16-6 True
CH83 - 7 View CFLN False
CH83 - 11 View WGNSAT 167 13-16-7 True
CH83 - 13 View WEDUDT 168 14-16-8 True
CH85 - 3 View WESH False
CH85 - 6 View WOGX 151 8-15-1 True
CH85 - 7 View WMFE False
CH85 - 8 View WOPX False
CH85 - 10 View WHLV 115 15-11-5 True
CH85 - 11 View WEVN 169 16-16-9 True
CH85 - 12 View WRBW False
CH92 - 13 View WUFT 116 17-11-6 True
CH108 - 1 View WRDQDT 127 23-12-7 True
CH108 - 12 View WINDOWSXP False
CH108 - 13 View CFLN 113 24-11-3 True
CH110 - 1 View WRBWDT 165 25-16-5 True
CH111 - 6 View PPV False
CH110 - 2 View MC ITV False
CH105 - 2 View WKMGDT 106 18-10-6 True
CH105 - 3 View LATV 107 19-10-7 True
CH105 - 7 View WMFEDT 123 20-12-3 True
CH105 - 8 View WMFEVDT2124 21-12-4 True
CH105 - 9 View WMFEDT3 125 22-12-5 True
CH105 - 10 View WMFEDT4 126 26-12-6 True


Brighthouse actually places some of the channels on the wire 3 times. Once analog, then SD digital and HD digital.

They also have the reputation of moving things around with out notice and placing some channels on digital unencrypted and then taking them away all without notice.

You will find the list has high channel numbers but some tuners will remap it to the broadcast channel number. Brighthouse seems to have some difficulty keeping the channel call letters straight. They seem to be rather sloppy with the meta data and rely on the STB to hide the fact from most of their customers.
 
Last edited:
stevenl

stevenl

SatelliteGuys Master
Jan 2, 2006
10,839
2
Disney World
BHN does not offer a "clear Qam" service so of course they are not going to tell you when they move stuff, they have no obligation to. The channels get moved around because there is an automated system that in laymans terms is called a "cherry picker" what it does is take channels and move them around as bandwidth is needed. A short example. So a Football game is coming on ESPN its fast motion so that channel will need more badnwidth then say a channel watching paint dry. So the cherry picker sees the need for more bandwidth moves the paint dry channel to a qam with other channels to free up more space for the ESPN football game. Its not sloppy, its a very sophisticated system doing this. :) Not hiding anything, making sure you dont get macro blocking on that football game, ensuring you have plenty of bandwidth for it is all.
 
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mbbrumm

Member
Aug 10, 2007
12
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Nobody said that Brighthouse was obligated to notify of changing the channel lineup. Nobody said that Brighthouse offers and "clear QAM" product. They are required by law not to encrypt local channels. However Brighthouse does choose not to notify customers of moving locations around.

Qam tuners are sophisticated enough to recognize the data rate changes. However when Brighthouse chooses to move a channel from say 600mhz range to the 700mhz range it will cause any QAM tuner to have to rescan and map the channel.

When Brighthouse presents a channel unencrypted and after several months chooses to then encrypt the channel it causes a QAM customer to have to rescan and map out the channels.

This type of "churn" seems like it is designed to steer the customer from purchased DVRs and toward renting them from the cable company. This is Brighthouse's choice of how they wish to do business. They are not doing anything underhanded or illegal.

However the business model does not meet my needs very well. I get most of my channels analog in an inconsistent quality. I would be much better served if all the basic unencrypted channels were in SD digital derived directly from digital sources (some of my digital channels are actually from poor analog sources with all the ghosts and static from a poor antenna.) This would actually reduce used bandwidth. Doing so would actually increase the available bandwidth on the wire and give better quality of service. These are all business choices. With my requirements I do not fit their desired business model.

Stevenl, I understand that you are very loyal to your employer and that is to be commended.
 
stevenl

stevenl

SatelliteGuys Master
Jan 2, 2006
10,839
2
Disney World
They choose to "not tell anyone" because they only move them around when needed as mentioned in the other thread on the topic. They do not offer you "digital service" without a cable box. If you have a digital tuner then you can pick up some channels digitally with it. However BHN does not gurantee it will always be where its located, as they are not "offering" you that service but merely obeying the FCC mandates.
 
M

mbbrumm

Member
Aug 10, 2007
12
0
However BHN does not gurantee it will always be where its located, as they are not "offering" you that service but merely obeying the FCC mandates.

So instead of complying with the spirit of the mandate and offer a service, BHN reluctantly complies with the law.
 
stevenl

stevenl

SatelliteGuys Master
Jan 2, 2006
10,839
2
Disney World
There is no mandate or law to offer the service. Only to send them unencrypted or "clear qam" That is all.

They are moved around not to piss people off, but to offer the best service possible. A very expensive piece of equipment does this moving automatically to ensure each channel has the optimal amount of bandwidth for its broadcasts.
 
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mbbrumm

Member
Aug 10, 2007
12
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Exactly my point! The law states that BHN must rebroadcast particular stations in clear. BHN will not support or promote it as a product and in fact goes out of it's way to conceal the fact that a STB is not needed.

They also conceal that there is a level of service below (and less costly) than basic.

The business model is to bundle services in a way that charges for services not desired and to rent equipment needed that could be a commodity if they did not frustrate use of non BHN equipment. This is the same business model that the phone companies used before de-regulation.
 
stevenl

stevenl

SatelliteGuys Master
Jan 2, 2006
10,839
2
Disney World
No they dont.

huh?

and yes the model is to bundle duh, there in business to make money not lose it. Study after study show the more services a customer has with a company the least likely they will switch.

BHN Is not required by law to offer a "clear qam" service. The channels they do offer "clear qam" are the local broadcast. Stations people can get "OTA" They also broadcast them on cable in analog format, in which you can get without a box if you like. The reasons they are required to send the same locals in "clear qam" and not encrypted has nothing to do with them being required to offer customers the digital signal. In fact they are not required to even send the channels digital. They could shut off the digital stream of all of those local stations and no one can say anything.

They broadcast them in digital so they can "simul-cast" them on the digital boxes. Not so you can view it in digital without a box, if you would like to do that well you will just have to search for the channel every now and again if it moves. BHN is not ripping you off in any way. You are not paying for a qam service, so you do not get one.
 

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