lee78221 said:
Well, that sounds like a better deal than I had originally thought! Thanks for the info.
DirectTV seems to be making a major upgrade
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Well, that sounds like a better deal than I had originally thought! Thanks for the info.
Tom Bombadil said:
And since E* has made no hints or announcements (that I can find) about offerring HD locals, I have to make a decision about what service offers what MY FAMILY wants. My family doesn't watch Voom10, and most likely would not watch much on Voom21 when compared to what is watched on The Big 4. For this reason, I will be leaving E* and going to D* unless E* can give me a date that they will be rolling out HD locals for me...and within a decent time frame (say 6 months).
I would love to see more National HD channels as well, but since I currently don't get The Big 4 in HD...I will be gaining 4 "national" channels that I can't get with E*.
No OTA comments please (I think those of us that can't get OTA are a minority on this board). I can't get OTA at my house due to terrain (yes I have tried), and plus, I prefer not to have a lightning rod sticking up 40 feet in the air to receive the one HD channel that I was able to get. We have been hit by at least 4 lightning strikes within 100ft of my house in the last 6 years (tall pines that happen to be the same height as the top of the antenna mounted to the highest point on my house). :shocked
The Big Wood said:
Curious question for you. What happens if D* does not implement the HD locals in the timeframe that they specified? D* (just like E*) has missed scheduled dates for program/hardware/etc. launches before. Perhaps E* is keeping from making a commitment to a date when they aren't entirely sure of an exact date themselves?
juan said:
geez...gotta watch how you step on people's poor feelings around here. I wasn't trying to be an @ss, but since you opened it up...D* started broadcasting my locals in HD last Tuesday . E* hasn't made any announcements (that I am aware of).nsafreak said:
If Dish would make their hd dvr receivers with two ota tuners , it would go a long way in helping most of their subs to be happy. With two ota tuners and most people able to pick up ota stations, Dish wouldn't need to add hd locals yet in the big cities. I know there is exceptions to every city , but most people in those situations go with cable anyway , due to line of sight issues. I think that they should add hd distant networks for the distants instead of analog versions. That way they could possibly add hd distants if they wanted to for customers who have hd receivers and distants too.
Eventually it will become a necessity for Dish to add the locals in hd if they want to compete. But Directv will have to improve their hd offerings as well. True hd will be what is most wanted , not" hd lite." Their sd picture quality is not quite up to snuff either, compared to Dish's. IF they can improve both hd picture quality and their selection of national hd channels ,add the whole country's hd locals and improve their sd channels picture quality , then they will be the company that I would go with. Until then Dish has the best in picture quality , the most hd national channels and I can get my ota stations just fine . There is only one hd station in my area anyway. The other two are just in 480i digital .
I think that by the time that Directv does add all the locals in true hd across the country by the end of the year 2007 , that Dish will be on their way to compete as well. Right now national hd channels is what people want and that is what cable can offer that both sat companies can't right now. It makes sense for Dish to add national channels first and then add the hd locals . IF Dish waits to long to react to Directv's plans, they will be to far behind to recover and it might just be their undoing.
Things are happening fast and once hd dvd players come on line next year , the demand for all things hd will grow even greater. I look for a second explosion in dvd sales once they decide which format they will go with; either blue ray or hd dvd. I look for the demand for hd to continue to grow with the passing of each year.
If all else fails you could use Directv for your hd locals and hopefully if pq improves the basic sd pack and Dish for your movies and hd national channels. Then you could have the best of both services and get all the hd out there. Dish would allow you to just sub to the movie pack and the hd channels - the no basic pack fee of $5.00.
Eventually it will become a necessity for Dish to add the locals in hd if they want to compete. But Directv will have to improve their hd offerings as well. True hd will be what is most wanted , not" hd lite." Their sd picture quality is not quite up to snuff either, compared to Dish's. IF they can improve both hd picture quality and their selection of national hd channels ,add the whole country's hd locals and improve their sd channels picture quality , then they will be the company that I would go with. Until then Dish has the best in picture quality , the most hd national channels and I can get my ota stations just fine . There is only one hd station in my area anyway. The other two are just in 480i digital .
I think that by the time that Directv does add all the locals in true hd across the country by the end of the year 2007 , that Dish will be on their way to compete as well. Right now national hd channels is what people want and that is what cable can offer that both sat companies can't right now. It makes sense for Dish to add national channels first and then add the hd locals . IF Dish waits to long to react to Directv's plans, they will be to far behind to recover and it might just be their undoing.
Things are happening fast and once hd dvd players come on line next year , the demand for all things hd will grow even greater. I look for a second explosion in dvd sales once they decide which format they will go with; either blue ray or hd dvd. I look for the demand for hd to continue to grow with the passing of each year.
If all else fails you could use Directv for your hd locals and hopefully if pq improves the basic sd pack and Dish for your movies and hd national channels. Then you could have the best of both services and get all the hd out there. Dish would allow you to just sub to the movie pack and the hd channels - the no basic pack fee of $5.00.
At least you are getting full bandwidth HD ... somehting neither D* nor E* offers!!! However, with SpaceWay2 in orbit for D* I would think think at E* will soon be on the losing end of HD in general. That remains to be seen though. As far as HD in concerned I have learned the Missouri approach ... SHOW ME .. and I say that becuase my OTA on my HD TiVo far exceeds what D* offers and I dumped E* more than 4 years ago because of the PVR-501. HD is the key to the future viewership and cable has it.Bulldog said:This is the reason I went with Comcast. Super low price for 16 months - HD locals, HDDVR. By the time the deal is over, D or E* will have something setup.
Hopefully the price for the HD programs will be okay.
I am saving about $40 a month with Comcast. and that will more than pay for a 941 if I go that route.
Are you sure that Comcast is offering HD in full bandwidth?
A lot of cable companies compress HD too. I've read, but haven't verified, that the bitrate on HBO as measured in a major city from Comcast was 12-13mb. Of course this is definitely better than the 9mb that D* is providing on HBO HD.
Hey, Big Wood, if Dish decides to preannounce their HD Locals plan to you in order to save one customer from going to D* or cable, then please let the rest of us know. I would be shocked if that's what they do, but just in case, be assured we are interested.
As to the 942 being able to record 2 simultaneous OTA programs, I guess this is a problem for some. I'd be surprised if it were high on a lot of lists. But I am in a minority on this as in the past two years, I've recorded a grand total of 3 network programs. I can't imagine ever needing this feature.
I do not believe that it is imperative for Dish to have an immediate answer to D*'s HD locals rollout. They will lose some customers, but not a large number. Better to stay focused on their technology development and be ready by the time this becomes a bigger issue. Heck, if they stay ahead in the total number of HD national channels, and remain ahead on HD quality, then that may more than offset the losses to a few HD locals.
Obviously they can't wait TOOOO long, but they have a few months to get their act together.
A lot of cable companies compress HD too. I've read, but haven't verified, that the bitrate on HBO as measured in a major city from Comcast was 12-13mb. Of course this is definitely better than the 9mb that D* is providing on HBO HD.
Hey, Big Wood, if Dish decides to preannounce their HD Locals plan to you in order to save one customer from going to D* or cable, then please let the rest of us know. I would be shocked if that's what they do, but just in case, be assured we are interested.
As to the 942 being able to record 2 simultaneous OTA programs, I guess this is a problem for some. I'd be surprised if it were high on a lot of lists. But I am in a minority on this as in the past two years, I've recorded a grand total of 3 network programs. I can't imagine ever needing this feature.
I do not believe that it is imperative for Dish to have an immediate answer to D*'s HD locals rollout. They will lose some customers, but not a large number. Better to stay focused on their technology development and be ready by the time this becomes a bigger issue. Heck, if they stay ahead in the total number of HD national channels, and remain ahead on HD quality, then that may more than offset the losses to a few HD locals.
Obviously they can't wait TOOOO long, but they have a few months to get their act together.
OTA is nice, but if your paying a company allready to provide locals its only fair they provide them in HD, i have to agree with another poster, I dont need another lightning magnet on my roof. personaly i feel that ota is overrated. and i live in a area where ota is 75-85% or more reliable.
Maybe too simplistic of a solution...
If I was E*, seems to me the most cost effective way to make everyone happy would be to:
1) Obtain access to all the national network HD feeds
2) Offer customers who want local HD an 811 or 942 receiver via lease, but in addition to that, include installation of an acceptable antenna to help them obtain OTA.
3) if #2 won't work, help subscriber do whatever paperwork they need in order to get waivers for national HD. (I would set this all up with the FCC first if I could).
4) Concentrate on getting all the national (non-network) HD they can.
I get local HD OTA (and I live in a very small market) and I would think OTA quality would always be better than compressed satellite HD.
This is probably very simplistic, but I don't think D* can do both provide Local HD to a large number of markets AND do a large number of National HD...
If I was E*, seems to me the most cost effective way to make everyone happy would be to:
1) Obtain access to all the national network HD feeds
2) Offer customers who want local HD an 811 or 942 receiver via lease, but in addition to that, include installation of an acceptable antenna to help them obtain OTA.
3) if #2 won't work, help subscriber do whatever paperwork they need in order to get waivers for national HD. (I would set this all up with the FCC first if I could).
4) Concentrate on getting all the national (non-network) HD they can.
I get local HD OTA (and I live in a very small market) and I would think OTA quality would always be better than compressed satellite HD.
This is probably very simplistic, but I don't think D* can do both provide Local HD to a large number of markets AND do a large number of National HD...
TomD said:
Thankfully, satellites aren't simple. Both DirecTV and Echostar have spotbeam satellites that allow them to reuse the same licensed frequency many times by focusing their signal on the region it's meant for. That's how they intend to deliver 1,500 local hd channels while retaining capacity for 150 national hd channels on the conus beams.
RIRWIN1983 said:
I'm sure E* would love to do so, if only the present cost wasn't something on the order of a billion dollars. Providing 1500 HD channels, even with spotbeams, at the present MPEG4 efficiency would eat up a few satellites.
On top of that, I suppose everyone would want a cheap HD receiver too? Or perhaps even a free one?
And, of course, no increase in rates, correct?
Being that the TV STATIONS will reap most of the benefits(lower power HD transmittors) from expanded HD coverage (more ad revenue) Me thinks they(tv stations) should PAY d* and e* instead of the other way around!! But this is the real world and that will never happenTom Bombadil said:
lee78221 said:
I have to believe that the quoted capacity of these DirecTV satellites using MPEG-4 was based on an estimate of the compression capabilities of MPEG-4. Dish appears to not be able to obtain what they expected in terms of bandwidth gain with MPEG-4. The estimates posted on this and other forums was a doubling (100% increase) in the number of HD channels/TP but what Dish annouced was only a 20% increase currently. I would be surprised if DirecTV is doing any better so these quoted numbers are currently probably significantly lower but a comparison is difficult because Dish is using DBS Ku band versus Ka band for DirecTV. I won't argue that the Spaceway satellites are the most advanced of satellites but by comparison the Rainbow-1 satellite has 130 spotbeam TPs which could provide 390 HD local channels using the current MPEG-2/8PSK. By the way the E-10 satellite could rival Rainbow-1 in terms of spotbeam capacity.
If Dish uses the Turbo 8 psk , which will give them 30 % more bandwith and then add the mpeg4 , when they get the encoders the way they want, wouldn't Dish still have more bandwith? By using the turbo 8 psk now, Dish will be able to add more national Voom channels now , and could add a few more national hd channels as well. This would enable everyone now with an hd receiver to be able to get all the national hd channels without a receiver swap out.
Hopefully when Dish does do mpeg4 , the encoders will be able to add a 100% increase of bandwith on top of the 30 % increase they will already get from turbo 8psk. Then I think you will see Dish start with the hd locals too.
Dish is doing this swap out very slow and I think they are right to. This enables more use from the existing 942 receivers and they won't have to spend all that money at one time like Directv will.
Remember Dish still has to solve the 2 dish problem for locals in 36 markets. That is going to cost them in Dish 1000 satellite dish upgrades to be able to satisfy the Fcc law. And in some of the Northeast markets they will have to either move their locals to the main sats or move them to side sat , or use the new Echostar 10 sat to solve the problem.
So I think that if Dish can add more national hd channels now without a receiver swap out ,most people will be happy . It looks like Directv will be going the hd locals route and Dish will be doing the national hd channels route. Dish has always added more sd locals and Directv has always added more national sd channels. Looks like they are doing the opposite approach in regards to hd additions.
Hopefully when Dish does do mpeg4 , the encoders will be able to add a 100% increase of bandwith on top of the 30 % increase they will already get from turbo 8psk. Then I think you will see Dish start with the hd locals too.
Dish is doing this swap out very slow and I think they are right to. This enables more use from the existing 942 receivers and they won't have to spend all that money at one time like Directv will.
Remember Dish still has to solve the 2 dish problem for locals in 36 markets. That is going to cost them in Dish 1000 satellite dish upgrades to be able to satisfy the Fcc law. And in some of the Northeast markets they will have to either move their locals to the main sats or move them to side sat , or use the new Echostar 10 sat to solve the problem.
So I think that if Dish can add more national hd channels now without a receiver swap out ,most people will be happy . It looks like Directv will be going the hd locals route and Dish will be doing the national hd channels route. Dish has always added more sd locals and Directv has always added more national sd channels. Looks like they are doing the opposite approach in regards to hd additions.
sanhin2 said:
I was referring to HD. Some areas are going full digital with Comcast. I got the Dish out promo, so it is a good deal for me and anyone else that has Comcast in their area and the promo being available. As both E* and D* work toward upgrading their HD and expect you to put down $$$ for the privilege of a HD-DVR, I am enjoying a free HD-DVR, my locals in HD and more HD movies. Now again as I stated; when my 16 months are up I'll see what D* and E* have come up with. If I decide to buy the HD-DVR from them, I will have the money (16 months X $40 a month savings = $640).
I could care less for Comcast, D* or E*. I am just looking for the best bang for my money. When these companies get fat, dumb and happy they care less about customers.
As I stated before; When cable was king it was either them or your rabbit ears, then came satellite and kick cables behind, now cable is fighting back and even the Telephone companies are getting into the act, all fighting to get my business and I am just loving it. That's the way it should be!
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