DirecTV & Missing Transponders

[razorfish]

Hey guys, just want to say hey and thanks for having me - first time caller, long-time installer

OK, so here's my dilemma. The owner of my company has been having probs with DirecTV reception for quite some time now, and knowing HT and electronics, etc., are a hobby of mine he asked me to come by and have a look-see.

Long story short - the previous installer put up 2, single dual LNB dishes. I'm not sure if each were pointed at different birds (don't thinks so as they were pointed in the same direction), but most of his TVs continuously say, "...searching for sat signal."

I installed a PhaseIII triple LNB, and though the signal has mostly improved it will still say searching for signal AND show no signal on a few transponders. He has a huge house with 4 receivers. To better give you an idea of how to troubleshoot the prob, I tuned one tv in one room to HBOH. Another TV, in the bedroom where i was, I tuned to 103, PPV previews. If I simultaneously tuned the bedroom TV to HBOH it would say searching for signal, and never tune. However, going back to 103 would see the video return.

Various transonders did not work on every TV (i recall transponder 1 on the very old non-hd receiver not working) - none received signals on all transponders.

This sounds like a multi-switch prob? I've done a little reading on the site and have determined that two multi-switches may be conflicting? He's also running an OTA antenna which he has spliced into the mix by way of diplexers. I've yet to crawl into the attic to see if there is a switch somewhere but that will be this weekend.

Any pointers?

thanks in advance
raze

 

[Cougar]

It does sound like a multiswitch problem or possibly a coax connection problem. The previous installer may have tried to use a conventional splitter to tie the connections together.

 

[razorfish]

hey glen, thanks for taking the time to read and respond. I'll be over there this weekend working on the prob so I'll keep you posted.

raze

 

[Mr Tony]

I would check all connections and cables. Make sure the cables are good, and not the cheap stuff.

If he was having issues before, then I dont think its a multiswitch issue

 

[Cougar]

After reading over this again I think Iceberg may have the right idea. The coax may be at fault. You may be able to prove that by adding a line extender amp to the bad links. If you get signal ok then, you will know that is the case, or the line lengths are too long.

Your welcome for the help and let us know what you find out.

 

[razorfish]

line extender amp? 'splain please Where would I get one of these and how much are they?

 

[Mr Tony]

Radio Shack has them...so does any discount store

 

[razorfish]

hey ice, thanks. So i basically add this somewhere between the dish's lnbs and the receiver(s), correct? Koo. Now...if i get up in the attic to find there already is a multiswitch there, would I then just be able to pull off the multi and instead use couplers on the lines going to each receiver, thereby utilizing the phaseIII's built-in multi? What other options are there? Also, IF said multi is discovered, and attached to it is an OTA antenna, could I also isolate this on its own multi/splitter? I know for certain on my boss' existing setup he's using diplexers to combine signals. I'm just trying to keep everything clean and trouble-free.

Any thoughts?

raze

 

[Mr Tony]

hey ice, thanks. So i basically add this somewhere between the dish's lnbs and the receiver(s), correct?

yep

Koo. Now...if i get up in the attic to find there already is a multiswitch there, would I then just be able to pull off the multi and instead use couplers on the lines going to each receiver, thereby utilizing the phaseIII's built-in multi?

yep

What other options are there? Also, IF said multi is discovered, and attached to it is an OTA antenna, could I also isolate this on its own multi/splitter? I know for certain on my boss' existing setup he's using diplexers to combine signals. I'm just trying to keep everything clean and trouble-free.

Any thoughts?

raze

does the Phase III multiswitch have an OTA antenna input? I dont have DirecTV so I dont know

 

[dfergie]

The previous installer may have tried to use a conventional splitter to tie the connections together.

I did this one time when I had my dual lnb go out, I hooked up a splitter (temp) and when you changed channels on one receiver it would freak out the other one.

 

[razorfish]

yeah, my guess is - judging from the shoddy install - there's a splitter in the mix somewhere, so that's what i'm thinking, too, cougar, that this is what's causing some of the missing transponders. Let's just hope it's this simple.

My god, never fails you're trying to look good in front of the boss only to run into every obstacle you can imagine. haha check this out. I went to best buy to get the triple lnb; coincidentally they had an 'open box' on the shelf for considerably cheaper. I buy it thinking, "a dish is a dish...is a dish..."

I get it back to his house; go up on the roof where I begin sweatin' my arse off; I've got every tv in the house turned up so i can hear the signal meter; and one hour later I'm STILL getting nothing but the single beep and the dreaded "MD3D" haha At one point, the owner is asking if he can help. So, I'm on my cell phone talking to him on his house phone telling him to tell me ANY signal I get (at one point moving it around, though I heard no tone, I managed to get a 64 peak). Come to find out the effin' LNB was fried, which is why it was returned in the first place. The fockers put it back on the shelf! I returned it and swapped it for a new one. Got signal the instant i put it up. haha i know, professional huh?

anyway...just thought i'd share ha

Oh, and Ice, no, the phaseIII doesn't have an OTA connection. The previous installer has added this to the mix somewhere down the path. My guess is it's close to, if not part of, the existing mutli/splitter.

raze

 

[Cougar]

Thanks for the update Razorfish. To bad you got ahold of the bad LNB but you got it taken care of at least. Keep us posted on the progress.

 

[jimisham]

Radio Shack has them...so does any discount store

Just to see what would happen, I put a RCA D903 on the back of my Directv with TIVO and it knocked the signal down about 8 or 9 digits.
I've got signals in the high 80's and low 90's on 101 and 119, but for some reason 110 is in the low 80's. Maybe I'm missing something, but I would think that if signals are that high on 101 and 119, they should be the same on 110.
After the installer left, I played around with the skew and elevation and brought everything up on all three about 5 digits. I haven't touched azimuth yet.
I've been told that putting one of them in where I don't need it, could result in the lower signal because of injected noise and distortion. He said the signal strength has more to do with detectable errors rather than the power level. I probably don't need the amplifier but I sure would like to bring up 110.

 

[razorfish]

ok guys, here's the latest. Poked around my owner's attic tonight just to get an idea of what to expect and found a very strange setup.

As far as I can tell it's like this:

Four lines coming from what was 2 separate dual lnb dishes, but is now 4 lines from one triple lnb (the new dish I installed). the lines begin on one end of the house then converge after a partition on the other side of the attic. Here's the strange part - it comes into a multiswitcher as one line? I'm confident between the switch and the dish there is a signal combiner.

At any rate...all four lines converge then go into the multiswitch as one line. It appears to be a 1x4 - I think. I say 'think' because if you're looking at the switch upright there are 3 inputs on top and 4 outputs on bottom. The three on top are what's throwing me; the left says 'H' and has a number (i forget what number) followed by a /18. The right side says 'V' and has a lower set of numbers (something like 11/16 or something). The center is clearly for a TV antenna. I'm positive the numbers represent voltages, but i'm unclear as to what the V and H stand for. surely not vertical and horizontal?

On the 4 satellite output side (bottom), attaching all lines saw the missing transponder issue reappear. However, disconnecting one (didnt matter which) saw all channels and transponder working fine, so i'm confident it's a switching prob.

Any ideas? first thing I'll check tomorrow is the splitter on the dish-side of the attic. Question: if I do find a splitter and remove it, can I just run one line from the triple lnb to the input of the switcher (H side or V side) and be ok? Or do i need to connect each line on the LNB?

OK, any help or advice is welcome, and if I've left anything out please don't hesitate to ask.

thanks
raze

 

[Neutron]

In order for the Phase-III dish with the built in multiswitch to work with another multiswitch it needs to be at least a 4X8 or more commonly a 5X8. The voltages are 13/18. It also has to be a cascadable one.

Techincally if all he has is the 4 lines to begin with, with no plans for expansion then he doesn't even need the extra multiswitch. Also, make sure his coax is RG-6.

 

[razorfish]

out of curiosity, would it even work if i ran only one line from the LNB to the switcher, which I then would run four receivers?

 

[Mr Tony]

no

you need both lines as one line carries 13V (vertical polarity) and the other carries 18 (horizontal polarity)

You need both so if you have one receiver on V polarity and 2 on H polarity, it can select the line. If you use one, not only won't it work, but if you want one channel that is vertical and one that is horizontal, the line wont know which polarity to pick.

easoest thing is eliminate the second multiswitch and run 4 lines to the receivers.

 

[Mr Tony]

At any rate...all four lines converge then go into the multiswitch as one line. It appears to be a 1x4 - I think. I say 'think' because if you're looking at the switch upright there are 3 inputs on top and 4 outputs on bottom. The three on top are what's throwing me; the left says 'H' and has a number (i forget what number) followed by a /18. The right side says 'V' and has a lower set of numbers (something like 11/16 or something). The center is clearly for a TV antenna. I'm positive the numbers represent voltages, but i'm unclear as to what the V and H stand for. surely not vertical and horizontal?

The switch there is a 3x4 switch. What it allowed you to do was run more than 2 receivers off a dual LNB. Both lines from the dish would go to the switch (the 13 and 18V ports). The middle one is for an antenna if so desired. The 4 outputs would go to the receivers.

 

[razorfish]

ok, got it. Here's the problem with the 'easiest' solution you guys proposed - he's combining both Sat and Ant into the multiswitcher. Once at the source, diplexers are used. If I remove the multi, and run directly to the receivers, I then lose the ability to transmit OTA.

Should I get a 5x8 switch or is there a work-around?

thanks again guys!
raze

Oh, and ice, remember - there were 2, single dishes with dual lnbs, so that means a total of 4 lines. If in fact he ran one H and V (left and right) that clearly is only two lines, leaving only a guess that a signal combiner had to be used, right? this may be the problem to begin with, i'm guessing.

 

[Mr Tony]

ok, got it. Here's the problem with the 'easiest' solution you guys proposed - he's combining both Sat and Ant into the multiswitcher. Once at the source, diplexers are used. If I remove the multi, and run directly to the receivers, I then lose the ability to transmit OTA.

Should I get a 5x8 switch or is there a work-around?

use a 5x8 switch. That will allow all 4 lines + the OTA to work together

Oh, and ice, remember - there were 2, single dishes with dual lnbs, so that means a total of 4 lines. If in fact he ran one H and V (left and right) that clearly is only two lines, leaving only a guess that a signal combiner had to be used, right? this may be the problem to begin with, i'm guessing.

From reading all the posts, I dont know what the heck the person did when they installed it

Easiest way is run the 4 lines from the Phase III to a 5x8 multiswitch. Add the OTA antenna to the 5th spot and run to receivers. There are 5x4, 5x6 and 5x8 multiswitches. It just has to have 5 inputs