DISH and CSNNE Dispute (1 Viewer)

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larrydeans

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Is there any movement in the DISH and CSNNE dispute. The Celtics season opens this week. I can't envision another year of not being able to watch Celtics coverage on a daily basis. It's been over a ear now. What gives.
 
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zippyfrog

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Is there any movement in the DISH and CSNNE dispute. The Celtics season opens this week. I can't envision another year of not being able to watch Celtics coverage on a daily basis. It's been over a ear now. What gives.

I am guessing there has been no movement. There used to be a site up, http://www.iwantcsnne.com that was an anti-dish site run by Comcast asking you to contact Dish and demand they carry it. That site is no longer up, and so I am guessing that as of right now, Comcast has decided to give it up. When Dish signed the long term extensions for CSN Chicago, CSN Mid Atlantic, CSN Bay Area, and CSN California last December, I thought that Comcast would have tried to have bundled CSN New England into the deal. Since they didn't, I don't see it being on Dish anytime soon.
 

Tampa8

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Posts here are not always representative of the general subscribers, but there was barely any posts about getting CSNNE back. I am in their market and while I would like to see an occasional Celtics game, the channel isn't missed much by me. At the moment the Celtics are the least watched of the major sports in the Boston market. If they continue to get better and are in contention for playoffs some pressure could be put on DISH. In fact they were not picked up by their long time radio network because ratings were so low for the price wanted. I think that is the problem with CSNNE, the asking price is too high for the product.
 

larrydeans

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Thats too bad. It's not just the Celtics for me. They have the best sports reporting on all Boston area teams. I figured when I joined DISH, this would be like other disputes and be over in a few days or weeks, not linger on for years. It's a shame. It's the same old, same old. I pay over $120 to watch maybe 20 channels across the spectrum of DISH plans. No one is holding a gun to my head to do it, I realize. But when it's one of the channels you would watch on a daily basis, it is a pain in the ass. I would certainly pay to watch CSNNE and thought I was when I signed up. Anyway, thank god it's America and I do have choices.
 
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EarDemon

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Programming disputes with Dish can be short lived, unless it involves sports channels. Dish hates sports. I would expect to get CSN NE back the same time as MSG, MSG Plus and SNY get added for those of us in New York. If you are a fan of any mainstream sports, I would seriously think twice about subscribing to Dish.
 

ChadT41

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Programming disputes with Dish can be short lived, unless it involves sports channels. Dish hates sports. I would expect to get CSN NE back the same time as MSG, MSG Plus and SNY get added for those of us in New York. If you are a fan of any mainstream sports, I would seriously think twice about subscribing to Dish.
I wouldn't say Dish hates sports, considering they offer the largest collection of college sports channels. Dish hates channels that think they can have everything under the sun. They have taken a stand against a whole variety of channels for that reason.
 
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Tampa8

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and have dropped others without negotiating at all, I might add...

DISH has offered to carry any RSN if they would agree to be separate from the core packages. They could charge whatever they wanted to. Because they know so many less would pay to have it or would do so only during certain pro seasons they won't do it.
 
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Tampa8

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Thats too bad. It's not just the Celtics for me. They have the best sports reporting on all Boston area teams. I figured when I joined DISH, this would be like other disputes and be over in a few days or weeks, not linger on for years. It's a shame. It's the same old, same old. I pay over $120 to watch maybe 20 channels across the spectrum of DISH plans. No one is holding a gun to my head to do it, I realize. But when it's one of the channels you would watch on a daily basis, it is a pain in the ass. I would certainly pay to watch CSNNE and thought I was when I signed up. Anyway, thank god it's America and I do have choices.

It is particularly bad for those under contract. I realize it doesn't get you the channel, but have you asked for a discount? DISH often will give one when an RSN is dropped at the least for awhile.
 

EarDemon

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I wouldn't say Dish hates sports, considering they offer the largest collection of college sports channels. Dish hates channels that think they can have everything under the sun. They have taken a stand against a whole variety of channels for that reason.

Channels that bring in a high number of viewers are worth their weight in gold and should be able to demand everything under the sun. I mean, YES, the NY Yankees are the most popular sports franchise in the nation. They deserve to ask for more because of how popular the Yankees are. MSG and MSG Plus caters to the largest media market in the nation and here in Buffalo, we traditionally pull in the highest ratings among non Canadian markets for hockey.

Pro sports not seen on Dish (not counting the obvious Philadelphia)

NHL - NY Rangers, NY Islanders, NJ Devils, Buffalo Sabres
NBA - NY Knicks, Brooklyn Nets, Boston Celtics, Houston Rockets, LA Lakers, Portland Trail Blazers
MLB - NY Yankees, NY Mets, Houston Astros, LA Dodgers
MLS - NY Red Bulls, NYC FC, LA Galaxy, Houston Dynamo, NE Revolution

Did Dish ever kiss and make up with Sports Time Ohio over Cleveland Indians coverage? Does Dish carry ESPN College Extra? In HD? I know they carry all of the PAC-12 regionals, but if I remember correctly only the national feed is in HD.

It would not surprise me to see Dish drop NESN at some point in the future. They've already partially given up on the Boston market, that's how it started in NY. Contract spat with MSG and then pulling SNY since it was the only NY RSN left.
 
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ChadT41

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Channels that bring in a high number of viewers are worth their weight in gold and should be able to demand everything under the sun. I mean, YES, the NY Yankees are the most popular sports franchise in the nation. They deserve to ask for more because of how popular the Yankees are. MSG and MSG Plus caters to the largest media market in the nation and here in Buffalo, we traditionally pull in the highest ratings among non Canadian markets for hockey.

Pro sports not seen on Dish (not counting the obvious Philadelphia)

NHL - NY Rangers, NY Islanders, NJ Devils, Buffalo Sabres
NBA - NY Knicks, Brooklyn Nets, Boston Celtics, Houston Rockets, LA Lakers, Portland Trail Blazers
MLB - NY Yankees, NY Mets, Houston Astros, LA Dodgers
MLS - NY Red Bulls, NYC FC, LA Galaxy, Houston Dynamo, NE Revolution

Did Dish ever kiss and make up with Sports Time Ohio over Cleveland Indians coverage? Does Dish carry ESPN College Extra? In HD? I know they carry all of the PAC-12 regionals, but if I remember correctly only the national feed is in HD.

It would not surprise me to see Dish drop NESN at some point in the future. They've already partially given up on the Boston market, that's how it started in NY. Contract spat with MSG and then pulling SNY since it was the only NY RSN left.
You had dorm thing there, until I realized the most watched channel(USA Network) gets $0.76 per sub, where sports channels extort the system. Just one for example is ESPN, which again is not the most watched channel on tv, and it gets $5+ per sub. Disney gets $3+. These channels can demand all they want and when a large provider such as Dish has someone like Charlie that can appropriately do a cost analysis... Guess what, they aren't here. Proving that providers can survive just fine with out MSG, YES, the Houston SportsNet, the Time Warner one in La. Proof that there is life without overly expensive RSN's, and Comcast got the experience of having one RSN go bankrupt die their own greed.

As Tampa pointed out, Dish has no problem adding a RSN, as long as they do not demand to be in the regular packaging. They do not have the power to make those demands. They can go into a sports pack or by them self, and see how much demand is truly there for whatever price they want to charge(plus Dish's margin). Doesn't sound good anymore when you think about it that way.
 

EarDemon

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What about providers that can come to terms with these RSNs? Why can DirecTV, TWC, Cablevision and Verizon come to terms with YES, MSG/MSG Plus and SNY but Dish cannot? And when comparing apples to apples as best as possible, Dish may be slightly cheaper, but never significantly cheaper the times I've compared, but cost is not a concern of mine. Watching the content I want to watch is the most important thing to me. And ESPN is most certainly worth every single penny they charge. Three words. Monday Night Football.
 

ChadT41

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ESPN is worth the money to you, and it is to me as well, however it doesn't change the fact that they are using a position to extort money from ALL providers. Also, it is a worthless station to many more, as proven by more people watching other channels. I'm including myself in this, but today's sports fans are stupid. We are willing to buy a new video game for each sport at each level, with the cost rising to above $50... We pay hundreds of dollars on jerseys, we pay hundreds of dollars on seasonal programming packages, athletes getting millions to entertain us, but delivers zero value to our actual lives. I love football, but I do recognize that an attitude like that is why tv will die someday. That said, I also like to respect that there is more to the world than the sports we love.
 

Tampa8

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Channels that bring in a high number of viewers are worth their weight in gold and should be able to demand everything under the sun.

Several problems with that hypothesis.
In the case of the New York RSN's how many DISH subscribers can there be who watch those channels? They can only be seen by those in their market, and then only a percentage of those people will watch them.
Further making them less valuable, in predominately heavily populated market with so many living in apartments, how many have DISH to begin with? Obviously there are many who could have DISH but you can bet DISH looked at it's total subscribers there, figured out how many would actually leave over not having the RSNs, then looked at how much they would have to raise rates and made their decision. I'm betting DISH would gain a negligible amount of subscribers if they added those RSNs, and how much would rates have to raise?

Now contrast that to the highest watched channels, that are nationwide such as USA, TBS, TNT, Fox News, among the most watched, and cost a fraction of what the RSN's do, and affects millions of subscribers. Who is more worth their weight in gold? NESN is in about 4 million New England homes, what percentage of that even has DISH? (Small) Compare that to the mentioned highest watched channels that are in about 85% of ALL homes for most 14 million DISH households.

The weight in gold for the Sports channels is their live sports programming. People want to watch as it happens, as opposed to being willing to watch rebroadcast or online delayed scripted programming. I do watch NESN and they do have good numbers because the Red Sox and Bruins are very popular but we are still talking about numbers within how many subscribe to DISH in the New England market. That brings up another problem for the RSN's. If DISH were to not carry NESN I have no problem getting the MLB online package for the Red Sox and watch with my Fire Stick or Roku after making the necessary adjustments. I believe we are on cusp of local sports teams being available online anyway in conjunction with the local RSNs. (for a price of course)
 
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EarDemon

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Just because people are watching other channels doesn't make it worthless. The same person who watched WWE Monday Night Raw on USA may tune into MNF afterward, or watch MLB On ESPN over the summer. ESPNs ratings last night were pretty impressive.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/10/27/monday-cable-ratings-oct-26-2015/480487/

Sports delivers a pretty big value to actual lives. The bringing of communities together for one. When the Sabres are in the playoffs here, there is no race, there is no ethnicity, there is no religious differences, we all bleed blue and gold. For something larger, see the first NY Yankees game after 9/11 or the first Red Sox game after the Boston Marathon bombing. What about the local economic impact? How many jobs are created by stadium venues, street vendors, retail outlets, sports bar and grilles? On the flipside how many Dish Network retailers here in NY have closed up shop because no one wants their service anymore because they no longer carry the channels people want? How many Dish techs have lost their jobs because the workflow is no longer there because people have switched to DirecTV or TWC? Here in Western NY we received a major boost to the economy thanks to sports when our locally owned and operated New Era Cap became the official headwear outfitter of the MLB and then a few years ago the NFL. The hats you see players wearing on the sidelines every Sunday are manufactured in my own backyard. I've seen many, many people first hand who have benefited by this partnership and have delivered real value, in the terms of better paychecks to their actual lives.
 

EarDemon

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Several problems with that hypothesis.
In the case of the New York RSN's how many DISH subscribers can there be who watch those channels? They can only be seen by those in their market, and then only a percentage of those people will watch them.
Further making them less valuable, in predominately heavily populated market with so many living in apartments, how many have DISH to begin with? Obviously there are many who could have DISH but you can bet DISH looked at it's total subscribers there, figured out how many would actually leave over not having the RSNs, then looked at how much they would have to raise rates and made their decision. I'm betting DISH would gain a negligible amount of subscribers if they added those RSNs, and how much would rates have to raise?

Now contrast that to the highest watched channels, that are nationwide such as USA, TBS, TNT, Fox News, among the most watched, and cost a fraction of what the RSN's do, and affects millions of subscribers. Who is more worth their weight in gold? NESN is in about 4 million New England homes, what percentage of that even has DISH? (Small) Compare that to the mentioned highest watched channels that are in about 85% of ALL homes for most 14 million DISH households.

The weight in gold for the Sports channels is their live sports programming. People want to watch as it happens, as opposed to being willing to watch rebroadcast or online delayed scripted programming. I do watch NESN and they do have good numbers because the Red Sox and Bruins are very popular but we are still talking about numbers within how many subscribe to DISH in the New England market. That brings up another problem for the RSN's. If DISH were to not carry NESN I have no problem getting the MLB online package for the Red Sox and watch with my Fire Stick or Roku after making the necessary adjustments. I believe we are on cusp of local sports teams being available online anyway in conjunction with the local RSNs. (for a price of course)


The state has a population of 20M. It's not just how many customers Dish has/had in NY State. But the potential for growth just about ended. That is essentially 20 million people Dish is writing off. DirecTV has no trouble coming to an agreement for the RSNs, Verizon, who we all know how they have no interest in expanding their Fios footprint finds value in our RSNs for their limited subscriber base. Time Warner Cable, who did have a spat with MSG about 4 years ago, may be the major cable provider in the state, but there are many portions or rural Upstate NY that have no cable service and they came to an agreement to MSG.

Funny how the bean counters for all of the other MSOs came to the conclusion that it makes sense to not neglect the #1 media market in the nation, 4th most populated state in the union, but Dish's bean counters could not.
 

ChadT41

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The state has a population of 20M. It's not just how many customers Dish has/had in NY State. But the potential for growth just about ended. That is essentially 20 million people Dish is writing off. DirecTV has no trouble coming to an agreement for the RSNs, Verizon, who we all know how they have no interest in expanding their Fios footprint finds value in our RSNs for their limited subscriber base. Time Warner Cable, who did have a spat with MSG about 4 years ago, may be the major cable provider in the state, but there are many portions or rural Upstate NY that have no cable service and they came to an agreement to MSG.

Funny how the bean counters for all of the other MSOs came to the conclusion that it makes sense to not neglect the #1 media market in the nation, 4th most populated state in the union, but Dish's bean counters could not.
Yet Dish remains the third most subscribed to service. I think they are doing just fine, and those bean counters are saving the money.. What happens if the other providers(just DTV would be enough) dropped that channel, or MSG or YES?? It's still a possibility when their contracts expire. And yet Dish still offers the most college sports.., further proving all your points wrong.
 

EarDemon

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Since cable companies are regional, not national, there really is no point is saying Dish is the #3 provider. TWC is only behind by a few million, but their foot print is significantly smaller than Dish's nationwide service area. Dish is the #2 national provider out of 2, by about 7 million subscribers.

Does Dish offer ESPN College Extra? Do they offer it in HD? Are all of the PAC 12 Regionals in HD?

You are proving nothing wrong, just demonstrating how the faithful defend and make excuses for their MSO of choice.
 
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