Dish install that went wrong!

[satjay]

Was not sure where to put this article....but a sad story on a dish install gone wrong


Macomb Daily : Lawsuit: Satellite TV installer nearly burned down home 08/11/08

 

[Rey]

doesn't this guy have the appropriate tools to prevent this kind of thing? and E should have taken care of this family! Plus where was the fire extinguisher? every home should have one at least. one thing is for sure,that guy will never work for any sat provider or cable. Idiot.

 

[StevenD]

Besides Dish Network and Wilson, also named in the lawsuit are Metro 25 of Detroit Inc., Echo Star of Michigan Inc., International Satellite Systems Inc., SBC Dish Network, AT&T Corp and John Doe, a trainee who the lawsuit says accompanied Wilson.

Isn't Metro 25 Claude?

 

[satjay]

doesn't this guy have the appropriate tools to prevent this kind of thing? and E should have taken care of this family! Plus where was the fire extinguisher? every home should have one at least. one thing is for sure,that guy will never work for any sat provider or cable. Idiot.

Good question on the fire extinguisher...Never know when you may need it!

 

[Mike500]

Isn't Metro 25 Claude?

Yes, unfortunately. They go after everyone involved.

He miight have jost sold them the certificate.

More importantly,

The large cable between the meter and the main panel is most often not protected by any breaker.

The strictest codes require a main breaker at the meter, or at the very least, that the cable be enclosed in a metal conduit.

The IEC and the NEC, however, does not.

 

[G Luis]

I could be wrong

but I don't believe that it is illegal to not have a fire extinguisher in a single family residence. Would it have helped? Possibly, although an electrical short, with an ensuing fire within the wall cavity, would be very difficult to get at.

Point being is try not to deflect the blame (or even suggest it) onto the poor homeowner who had nothing to do with this. How about, where was the installer's extinguisher?

Let's keep the responsibility for this where it should be.

 

[apollog]

I hope Dish Network and it's co-defendants pay dearly. It's time that they get their heads out of a** and be more responsible for all their actions. As a contractor for E*, I've seen alot of short cuts that other contractors take, just to make a quick buck. I take pride in my work and craftsmanship. Bad contractors need to be weeded out and these guys need to be fined with large penalties and or terminated.

 

[cjwct]

I feel so bad for this family and it brings back so many thoughts . . . when I originally had my Dish installed, I had problems for many months thereafter. I finally got a competent installer out here 7 months after the install and not only did he correct the original problem but also noticed that the whole system was not properly grounded and it was an accident waiting to happen. This is why I posted previously if anyone knew of a good installer in the Hartford, CT area. Glad to see no one was injured!

 

[STDog]

I haven't read the story yet, but I'm not sure how much liability E*, AT&T or anyone other than the installation company has here.

E* contracts out to licensed installers/dealers. You can bet there are contractual obligations concerning training and indemnity to be an official installer.

How would E* or AT&T be liable for the contractor no meeting his obligations? Seams like the lawyers are going after deeper pockets instead of those with true liability.

Then again all companies involved have insurance to cover this kind of liability. The insurance companies will probably settle out of court.

 

[cjwct]

I agree STDog, but I think they are probably filing against both in case the install company decides to file bankruptcy rather than paying.

 

[Yes616]

I wouldn't trust an installer to do the drilling through the wall so when I had satellite installed 8 years ago, I did the drilling and installed a 6" PVC pipe through the hole.

All the installer needed to do was snake the cables through the pipe. Then I just stuffed some extra insulation around the cables inside the pipes. There are 6 RG-6 cables going through there and room for more. This was because I had an SW-64 multi-switch at the time and when I upgraded to a HD-DVR recently. I had the installer leave the cables alone in case OTA became a possibity for me someday. (My new switch is a DPP44 so now I only need 3 cables instead of 6). Of course everything is hidden from sight.

It made their job much easier and I had piece of mind.

 

[rcdallas]

Isn't Metro 25 Claude?

Yes it is.

 

[webbydude]

I hope Dish Network and it's co-defendants pay dearly. It's time that they get their heads out of a** and be more responsible for all their actions. As a contractor for E*, I've seen alot of short cuts that other contractors take, just to make a quick buck. I take pride in my work and craftsmanship. Bad contractors need to be weeded out and these guys need to be fined with large penalties and or terminated.

I'm not trying to single out this poster, but it certainly brings up the same points the majority of people are taking in this thread. Almost everyone is out to crucify the installer. Will everyone just relax! Yes, he made a mistake. A very costly one. We have no idea whether he was insured or not (I'm taking the position that he was insured). Anyone that's installed...whether it's for cable or any DBS...knows just how easy it is to HIT an electric line. Not every home has electrical runs that run vertical...or even in consistent directions. It's entirely possible the main hit the home, and then did a few horizontal and vertical zig-zags.

With regards to the homeowner, all they're doing is naming all parties. That's an expected and very typical response to this sort of thing. When it's all said and done, probably the only parties that will be liable are the installer and (once again...assuming here) his commercial liability insurer.

 

[rcdallas]

I agree... that kind of thing could of happened to anyone of us. There has been many times I have drilled next to the SEC, some electricians can do some awful work, and I see a lot of it.

None of us were there.

 

[Mike500]

Experienced contractors and installers know how to "read" the situation. Given that, one can still drill into an obstruction inside the wall.

I would always take the time to look and see where the main panel and the meter are colocated, before ever attempting to drill in that area.

Also, I always remove the cover plates on receptcles to determine where the stud is. The safest place to drill is always the three inches to the right or left of a vertically mounted receptacle box. All electricians know that wires come in and out the top or bottom of the box.

When in doubt, I use a 2 inch hole saw to cut a hole three inches to either side of the recptacle inside the house. The 1/4" center bit and saw does not penetrate more than 1/4 to 1/2 inch into the wall. The 2 inch hole provides full access into viewing inside the wall cavity. Yet, it's easy to cover with a standard blank or F81 wall plate.

I made a mistake one time and used a step drill and drilled into a water pipe. It would not have happened, if I used the two inch hole saw.

The nice thing about a hole saw is that it would even allow me to install the wall plate, if I drilled into a 2x4. Just knocking out the plug inside the wall would allow you to install the wall plate and F81 connector.

 

[rcdallas]

The safest place to drill is always the three inches to the right or left of a vertically mounted receptacle box. All electricians know that wires come in and out the top or bottom of the box.

You hope they do. Some DIY's can come up with some creative comptraptions and do something quite giddy.

 

[Andrewwski]

There were a lot of things that the installer did wrong here.

First - I'm sorry, but it's plain stupid to drill next to the main electrical line. Anything after that can be killed by the breakers, but don't risk it so close to the main line. 1 millimeter? That's like the thickness of a fingernail. I bet the installer was trying to run it right alongside, but come on, that's just plain stupid. He obviously knew it was there.

Now, the second stupid thing is to try and cover it up. Notify the homeowner immediately. Get someone else either helping, or get the people out of the house in case something else starts to burn rapidly. Then make sure the fire department is called. Chances are damage would have been minimal if this was reported correctly.

Because water doesn't do a thing on an electrical fire. A type ABC fire extinguisher needs to be used. If it's a small fire and no ABC extinguisher is present, try throwing baking soda on it.

Using water was absolutely useless. It won't stop an electrical fire. In that 10 minutes though, the fire dept. could have been there and had the entire thing out before it spread.

It's common sense, people...

 

[Mike500]

You hope they do. Some DIY's can come up with some creative comptraptions and do something quite giddy.

In Romex nonmetallic MN2 construction, they make NO old and NEW work boxes with knockouts coming out of the side.

Electricians basically run cables in the zone near the top or bottom of the box. That happens more so, now, since the price of copper has gone up.

That's another reason why I always take off the wall plate and look at the box inside the wall.

The two inch hole saw exploratory method is the safest. As a Master Electrician, I do a lot of work in the area between the main panel and the meter. Supposedly, the cable must be at least 1-1/4 inches in the wall. The hole saw would never penetrate that deep, before removing the plug. To gain more access, I use a 4 inch hole saw. The plug will glue back in perfectly with strips of plywood and short drywall screws. Since it is a circle, no tricky alignment is needed. Spackling easily fills the saw kerf and the 1/4 inch center hole.

Also, I never saw into a wall with anything but a fine drywall saw. I stop at any resistance felt. I've sscratched the SEU cable's vinyl typ jacket at times, but have never exposed the bare outer wires, usually bright aluminum.


Too many installers just drill with a long bit through both the inside and outside walls.

 

[STDog]

Too many installers just drill with a long bit through both the inside and outside walls.

I'm still shocked that any installer drills holes through the outside wall like that.

I'd never do that, nor allow it to be done to my house.
Through the floor or to the attic, through the eave.


Then again, now you know why I've installed all my stuff. Anyone else remember the "free self install kits"?
When I've upgraded and been forced to have a tech out (Dish wouldn't ship the receiver to me) I had the holes drilled (if not the coax run ready) for when they showed up.

 

[Hall]

With regards to the homeowner, all they're doing is naming all parties. That's an expected and very typical response to this sort of thing. When it's all said and done, probably the only parties that will be liable are the installer and (once again...assuming here) his commercial liability insurer.

Yeah, I believe naming all possible connections like this is routine and normal. Dish, AT&T, etc, etc will file/respond to the court claiming why they shouldn't be a named party and if the judge agrees, they are dropped from the suit.