Dish/LIN OTA EPG Potential Fix

R

Ray_Clum

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 10, 2005
185
54
Indianapolis, IN
I just got off the chat with Dish Tech Support regarding the lack of info on the OTA EPG.

They said to do a plug-pull/hard reset. Afterwards, go to Point Dish > Check Switch > Test. Then the EPG should be good. I'm not sure that it will work, I haven't tried it yet, since my wife is watching Iron Chef America on the 722 with the OTA antenna...
 
skysurfer

skysurfer

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 1, 2006
1,737
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Didn't work... CRAP... I hate LIN...

I think you hate DISH! ;)

The way I see it, it's been over 24 hours now since the LIN stations were pulled. I figure everyone knows about the situation, from the warnings from the LIN stations about a week go to until the deadline until DISH's slate and EPG "Important Info!" junk. If you don't know about it, you probably don't care about your local channels so what it is to you?

I think DISH should return the EPG to normal so it works with the right program info and anyone who has been under a stone will either see the DISH info slate about the LIN situation when they try to watch their network programming or will see that slate when they record a half-hour or hour show. ;)

I would like the normal EPG so I can see what shows I watch on FOX might be new or might be repeats this week so I can set up my PC recording scheduler with ATSC tuner hooked up my PC. "Important Info!" from the DISH EPG tells me nothing I need to know and I doubt FOX is going to announce repeats on their website because they want you to think it's new and tune in anyway even if it's a repeat.
 
bebop

bebop

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Sep 5, 2008
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Same thing happened here with Fisher. It's not going to happen until after any deal is reached.
 
Tampa8

Tampa8

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I would hate to see some try to survive with no power for a couple of days...... Yes, you can either go to the website of the network and it will tell you the date of the episode. OR, go to someplace like TitanTV and it will tell you. Print out the listings and do a manual timer....

THE SIMPSONS
AIRS AT A SPECIAL TIME 730/630c
AMERICAN DAD 8/7c

THE SIMPSONS
ALL-NEW 830/730c
BOB'S BURGERS
ALL-NEW 9/8c
FAMILY GUY
ALL-NEW 930/830c
THE CLEVELAND SHOW
ALL-NEW
 
Last edited:
navychop

navychop

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SHOCKED! I am SHOCKED! You oppose spoon feeding? You must be a baby hater, why you dirty Dish shill, communist and......... :rolleyes: ;)
 
R

RobMeyer1

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Jan 13, 2006
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Santa Fe, NM
I don't know if will do any good, but I went to the FCC site and filed a complaint as follows:


March 7, 2011

I am a Dish network subscriber in a local market where LIN is an owner of 2 Albuquerque, NM local stations. There is currently a dispute between Dish and LIN and as a result Dish can no longer carry these stations over their satellite system.

My complaint has to do with an Over The Air problem with guide data. I have a Dish VIP722 DVR receiver which includes an OTA tuner. While I am able to tune both stations OTA, I cannot get accurate guide data anymore. Dish tells me they are prohibited by LIN from providing this. If possible, please contact both parties and require them to make accurate guide data available to me and other Dish users using OTA tuners, while this dispute continues.

Also, Dish claims that LIN is demanding a rate increase of 140% or more. If this is true, it is more representative of extortion than bargaining in good faith as required by law.

Sincerely,

Robert C. Meyer
 
Hall

Hall

SatelliteGuys Master
Feb 14, 2004
18,409
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Germantown OH
When you mentioned the FCC and guide data, that reminded me of something... I believe there's an FCC requirement that TV stations provide guide data and I have to presume a similar requirement that digital receivers display that same data (wouldn't make any sense to make one and not the other, right ?).

Anyone feel like digging into this ? I will also... If anyone finds anything, post it here.
 
LER

LER

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Sep 28, 2003
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Round Rock, TX US
I don't know if will do any good, but I went to the FCC site and filed a complaint as follows:


March 7, 2011

I am a Dish network subscriber in a local market where LIN is an owner of 2 Albuquerque, NM local stations. There is currently a dispute between Dish and LIN and as a result Dish can no longer carry these stations over their satellite system.

My complaint has to do with an Over The Air problem with guide data. I have a Dish VIP722 DVR receiver which includes an OTA tuner. While I am able to tune both stations OTA, I cannot get accurate guide data anymore. Dish tells me they are prohibited by LIN from providing this. If possible, please contact both parties and require them to make accurate guide data available to me and other Dish users using OTA tuners, while this dispute continues.

Also, Dish claims that LIN is demanding a rate increase of 140% or more. If this is true, it is more representative of extortion than bargaining in good faith as required by law.

Sincerely,

Robert C. Meyer

Thanks for the idea. I also filed at the FCC.
 
J

JosephB

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Dec 21, 2004
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Atlanta
This just goes back to the original problem of Dish not providing EPG data for stations they don't carry. It really has nothing to do with agreements, or LIN blocking, or anything else. The way Dish does things is that EPG data for OTA is only provided for stations that Dish carries (although Dish does provide data for those stations' subchannels). If they'd just change the way they do things and provide EPG listings for all channels in a DMA, this wouldn't be an issue.
 
TheKrell

TheKrell

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Sure looks to me like Dish has a technical issue as well as a carriage dispute. The guide data is apparently duplicated on, and bound to, Dish's satellite version of an OTA channel. So they can't independently shut down the guide on the sat version without also shutting down the guide on the OTA channel. They could fix this by re-enabling guide data on both, but then everybody would be recording slates by mistake.
 
Z

Ziuck

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Apr 2, 2004
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They quit doing OTA EPG data with the 811. It was the last receiver to do OTA EPG.
 
Pepper

Pepper

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Mar 16, 2004
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Sure looks to me like Dish has a technical issue as well as a carriage dispute. The guide data is apparently duplicated on, and bound to, Dish's satellite version of an OTA channel. So they can't independently shut down the guide on the sat version without also shutting down the guide on the OTA channel. They could fix this by re-enabling guide data on both, but then everybody would be recording slates by mistake.
This is the problem. In cases where an OTA channel is also carried as a Dish channel, there is only one set of EPG data. The non-carried subchannels are added as "virtual channels" with no picture or audio, just EPG.
 
Hall

Hall

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Feb 14, 2004
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The way Dish does things is that EPG data for OTA is only provided for stations that Dish carries (although Dish does provide data for those stations' subchannels). If they'd just change the way they do things and provide EPG listings for all channels in a DMA, this wouldn't be an issue.
A couple of points here....

1) Dish only provides guide data for channels (and sub-channels) they carry because (this is a presumption) that's all that they "subscribe" to from Tribune Media. From Dish's standpoint, it does make sense... They provide a list of the stations, i.e. WHIO, WDTN, WKEF, that they carry and Tribune matches it up. Should Dish ask for every TV station ? I know some think so...
2) Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but PSIP data is notoriously inaccurate or incomplete. In the case of DVRs, this is especially a bad thing. It's my understanding that DirecTV and TiVo also do NOT use PSIP data.
 
Hall

Hall

SatelliteGuys Master
Feb 14, 2004
18,409
3,194
Germantown OH
Sure looks to me like Dish has a technical issue as well as a carriage dispute. The guide data is apparently duplicated on, and bound to, Dish's satellite version of an OTA channel. So they can't independently shut down the guide on the sat version without also shutting down the guide on the OTA channel.
I don't believe this is correct. I'm 99% positive that during the FOX dispute, guide data on the OTA channels worked like normal.

Does anyone else remember this ?
 
bebop

bebop

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Sep 5, 2008
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Idaho
When we had a similar issue here with Fisher, I'm sure it was Dish not being willing to provide the data through for the OTA guide. Especially since one day in the middle of the dispute it started working normally, and then it went back to 'important info' again. I wrote both companies and all they would do is finger-point and not answer the questions being asked. Tribune was obviously still getting the correct data. Then the day after the dispute was settled, the guide magically worked again.
 
J

JosephB

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 21, 2004
1,254
160
Atlanta
A couple of points here....

1) Dish only provides guide data for channels (and sub-channels) they carry because (this is a presumption) that's all that they "subscribe" to from Tribune Media. From Dish's standpoint, it does make sense... They provide a list of the stations, i.e. WHIO, WDTN, WKEF, that they carry and Tribune matches it up. Should Dish ask for every TV station ? I know some think so...
2) Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but PSIP data is notoriously inaccurate or incomplete. In the case of DVRs, this is especially a bad thing. It's my understanding that DirecTV and TiVo also do NOT use PSIP data.

1. Yes. Next question
2. I don't watch OTA through my TV's tuner, which does pick up the PSIP guide data. However, even if it were inaccurate, it would be better than nothing. In the end, though, if Dish is going to sell an OTA adapter, what is the point if you can't get all of the channels' guide data? DirecTV provides guide data for channels they don't carry through the AM21.
 
osu1991

osu1991

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Sep 4, 2004
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Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
We've had two disputes in the past in Tulsa and both times we lost the guide data for the OTA and got the press select for important info segments in the guide instead.
 

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