Dish Network Runaround

[LoTech]

I have a dish network service at one address, and I want to add a second account for a different address in another part of the state. Dish tells me that I have to take my locals from another market at this second address even though its only two miles out of my original market. I told them that the new address was in an "unserved" area of the new DMA per FCC rules since it is impossible to receive any of the channels OTA, but they told me I had to take those channels anyway. They gave me the runaround for two hours, and eventually told me that I would have to sign up for a two year agreement and then write to all of the stations in the new market asking for a waiver, and then they could possibly allow me to have the market channels from my original market.

They refused to let me talk to anyone who could explain their reasoning to me, and pretty much told me I would have to get another account and they would see what they could do. Does anyone know of a number at Dish that I could call to talk to someone higher up than "Customer Support"?

 

[Mr Tony]

I dont know why folks dont utilize the DIRT (Dish Internet) team here instead of calling customer no-service

But a couple points

at this second address even though its only two miles out of my original market

-the 2nd address can be 4 feet outside of the "other" area and qualify for different locals. Its done usually by county. Heck the address I use with Directv gives me Minneapolis locals + a 2nd CBS (KEYC Mankato)....across the Minnesota River they are a different market and get CBS & FOX Mankato (the only two stations in the market) along with NBC & ABC Minneapolis (as fill in)
-With Dish they carry all 210 locals markets in SD at least as defined by the FCC so according to them there is no "unserved" market in the 50 states. You get locals. It is all defined by Nielsen as to which locals you get. If you want the same locals at 2 different markets you need to "move" one of the accounts

Is this something that you want to take a receiver to a second location for the weekend or are you going to have 2 separate locations going at both times? If its just for a weekend retreat just take a receiver with you. If its more than that depending on the package you want and only need one receiver buy a 211 and sign up with no contract

Or I'm just confused as to what you are actually trying to do......

 

[Tampa8]

Iceberg pretty much explained it. In this case I don't think Dish gave you the runaround, I think you just don't like the answer. (Not meant to be harsh) If you give the zip we can look and maybe get a better idea of what Dish does for the area you are talking about. I am confused at getting an account "in another part of the state" which makes it sound to be far from the orginal address, but then you say you are two miles from the original address. Maybe it's just a choice of words.'
If the zip and address you will be at is truly unserved, then from your description Dish is using significantly viewed networks, which apparantly are not the ones in your original market but from a market on the other side. That's the only way you would have to get waivers if unserved that I can think of. (I know from experience - back when Dish has distants I had to get a waiver from a providence station because they claimed me as significanly viewed)

I can give you an example of how only a very few miles makes a difference. When I am in Ct, I get the two Boston RSN's. (I would get all three NYC RSN's also but Dish does not carry them - a different story) But go just a few miles to the West of me, and you only qualify for one Boston RSN.

 

[MattG@DISH]

I have a dish network service at one address, and I want to add a second account for a different address in another part of the state. Dish tells me that I have to take my locals from another market at this second address even though its only two miles out of my original market. I told them that the new address was in an "unserved" area of the new DMA per FCC rules since it is impossible to receive any of the channels OTA, but they told me I had to take those channels anyway. They gave me the runaround for two hours, and eventually told me that I would have to sign up for a two year agreement and then write to all of the stations in the new market asking for a waiver, and then they could possibly allow me to have the market channels from my original market.

They refused to let me talk to anyone who could explain their reasoning to me, and pretty much told me I would have to get another account and they would see what they could do. Does anyone know of a number at Dish that I could call to talk to someone higher up than "Customer Support"?

Your locals will be determined by the zip code on the account. I have seen cases where 1 street down is a different local market. If you send me the zip code for your second home, I will double check what DMA it qualifies for

 

[Mr Tony]

Here is the example I gave

see map...Blue Earth County (in Green) is Mankato...its own market with CBS & Fox (ABC/NBC from Minneapolis)
Nicollet county (in Pink) is North Mankato..they get Minneapolis locals (90 miles away)

Actually in MN there are plenty of different locals scenerios based on "2 miles away"

 

[LoTech]

Thanks to all for the info. The only reason I ask is that according to FCC guidelines I am in an Unserved area, and my satellite provider is supposed to give me the option to purchase out of market programming or distant locals. They refuse to do either, or to even refer me to someone that I can plead my case to.

 

[Tampa8]

Dish does not offer distants in that way. They offer a set of networks to RV'rs, truckers, etc.. only. And Dish IS offering you out of market programming, it's just that you want to pick it, Dish doesn't do that. (Or Direct or the Cable companies)
(AAD offers distants in the way you are talking about, available from the Dish satellites but not affiliated with Dish. SD only, sounds like you would easily qualify for both sets (West and EAST) but it still would not be your original market.)

 

[Mr Tony]

The only reason I ask is that according to FCC guidelines I am in an Unserved area, and my satellite provider is supposed to give me the option to purchase out of market programming or distant locals. They refuse to do either, or to even refer me to someone that I can plead my case to.

LoTech
I hate to say this but you're not unserved with the satellite providers. From the FCC link

If your satellite TV company does not offer local-into-local service and you are deemed “unserved,” you may be eligible to receive distant signals or stations that originate outside of your DMA.

Dish offers locals in all 210 US DMA's (I have to say US DMA's as they carry loclas in PR & USVI but they arent counted by Nielsen) so you are no longer "unserved"...now if Dish disnt carry locals in your market then you would be considered unserved

 

[LoTech]

Dish does not offer distants in that way. They offer a set of networks to RV'rs, truckers, etc.. only. And Dish IS offering you out of market programming, it's just that you want to pick it, Dish doesn't do that.
(AAD offers distants in the way you are talking about, available from the Dish satellites but not affiliated with Dish. SD only, sounds like you would easily qualify for both sets (West and EAST) but it still would not be your original market.)

With all due respect, no they would not offer me either distants or out of markets; even AAD. Well not without getting individual waivers from all of the stations in this market.

 

[Tampa8]

You say you are in an unserved market, you say you are getting networks. You are not unserved anymore as, you are getting out of market channels. Unless we are not understanding. If you said you could not get any locals at all from Dish, that's a different discussion. Just because you do not get locals from an antenna does not mean the provider has to give you any choice to what you will get. Dish has to serve all the areas they give service to, and from what we can tell, they are for the new address, just not the ones you want. Again, if you have to get waivers, that alone indicates you are served by networks from somewhere OTA. AAD is the easiest possible way to qualify for distants. If you were denied by them, you are not in an unserved area, trust me.

You do realize just because you can't get networks with an antenna does not mean it is in a White Zone - or unserved as you put it? There are antenna height and other requirements that have to be met to try and get a signal. There are internet sites that can pretty much zero in and tell you if you can get a signal or not based on your exact address and it does not go by zip, but by actual address. Two houses next to each other can be different, one gets a network and one can not on an antenna.

Once again, if you would give the zip you are talking about we can even better answer the question at least to what Dish is doing for the Zip.

 

[Mr Tony]

I know we've helped LoTech before with an antenna setup and where he is there really is very little OTA reception.

edit: found that thread...he has access to one station OTA (WYMT Hazard KY...which is the Lexington market but neither provider carry it..they carry WKYT from Lexington) according to tvfool. His location is that odd county in KY that is part of the Tri-Cities market (Bristol TN/VA, Johnson City, TN) and assume his other location is Lexington market

so technically he is considered unserved by the FCC EXCEPT the fact both providers carry locals from both Lexington and Tri-Cities so he isnt considered "unserved"

 

[Tampa8]

I understand he would like to pick his locals, wouldn't alot of us but he's not unserved as you state.

And if TV fool shows that, he would qualify for AAD if he wanted those. (Again, I realize it would not be the channels from his orginal address) Keep in mind he is stating he is not talking about his original address, don't know how that changes the orginal posts you found...

 

[LoTech]

Served, unserved... it doesn't matter. All I wanted to know was if there was someone I could talk to at Dish to clarify my situation, not a lesson on why I shouldn't be allowed to do something. Thank you for the info, but I think this thread can be closed.

 

[Mr Tony]

post #4 from Matt..PM him and he can give you the info

Served, unserved... it doesn't matter.

yes it does matter....all Dish subs in the 50 states regardless of what they can get OTA is considered "served"...I'll explain below

But we're not giving you a "lesson on why you shouldnt be allowed to do something"....It's very simple from the FCC (the same link you posted)..per post 8
If your satellite TV company does not offer local-into-local service and you are deemed “unserved,” you may be eligible to receive distant signals or stations that originate outside of your DMA.

If locals are available from the provider in the market as defined by Nielsen...then you CAN NOT get distants...period. Its black and white...not grey
Dish carries all 210 local markets in the US.

Nobody at Dish can go around it. The only way to get distants is to have a RV or semi and send the necessary paperwork to Dish But you still havent told us what you are trying to accomplish. Right now you get Tri-Cities locals. Are you trying to get them at your other location in Central Kentucky? Do you want Lexington locals at both spots?

 

[LoTech]

I'm sorry for any confusion about what I want. I was going by this statement from the FCC

The term “unserved household” includes a household or subscriber that:

• cannot receive, through the use of a conventional, stationary, outdoor rooftop antenna, an over-the-air network signal of Grade B intensity as defined by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC);
• has a satellite dish that is permanently attached to a recreational vehicle or a commercial truck; or
• is subject to a waiver granted by the local TV station, if the household or subscriber is not predicted to be unserved. (The satellite TV company must request this waiver from the television station for the subscriber.)

Using a computer model, your satellite TV company can tell you if you are predicted to be “unserved.” If you are not predicted to be unserved, you will need waivers from local TV stations to receive distant signals.

and

SHVIA permits satellite TV companies to provide a local TV station’s signal to the company’s subscribers in that station’s market, or Designated Market Area (DMA), as defined by Nielsen Media Research. SHVIA also permits satellite TV companies to provide “distant” TV stations, or stations outside the subscriber’s local television market or DMA, to eligible subscribers.

and

If you subscribe to local-into-local service and don’t qualify as an “unserved household,” you may be eligible to receive some distant stations if those stations are considered “significantly-viewed.”

I understood this to mean that if I could not receive channels from my market in Whitesburg, that I was in an unserved area and could choose to have my local service from another market. The last statement lead me to believe that since the only significantly viewed channels in my area come from WYMT/WKYT which is in the Lex market, and the channels from the local cable company which carries the Lex. market, that I could choose to have those channels added to my service.

If I am wrong, I apologize for any inconvenience that I have caused any of you.

 

[Mr Tony]

I'll go through each point you posted
the unserved part, while what is posted is true, gets thrown out the window if locals are available via satellite to you. Dish carries all local markets in SD. Directv does not carry all the markets. So if you live in an area that is not carried by the provider you may be able to qualify for distants. But Dish carries all markets so that point is moot.

SHVIA permits satellite TV companies to provide a local TV station’s signal to the company’s subscribers in that station’s market, or Designated Market Area (DMA), as defined by Nielsen Media Research. SHVIA also permits satellite TV companies to provide “distant” TV stations, or stations outside the subscriber’s local television market or DMA, to eligible subscribers.

correct. Your county is considered the Tri-Cities market. as shown here

the counties to the west are in the Lexington market. Nielsen Media is the one who decides what county is in what market.

Significantly Viewed is something that cable really has a greater pull than satellite does. Cable is allowed to have multiple locals available due to them having rules from the 1960's on what they can carry. Satellite's rules started early 2000's on what they could carry. Basically in very extreme cases do they allow more than one set of networks in a market. As example the address I have with Directv allows me 2 CBS affiliates. I get CBS Minneapolis (along with the other Mpls stations). I also get KEYC from Mankato which is a small market CBS (they still sign off every night). I am allowed both as the county I have the address in is considered Minneapolis market even though KEYC Mankato's studios are in it (Mankato is considered a different market). Its only that one zip code that you can get both. Across the river in Mankato you get KEYC and the other fill in Minneapolis stations but you dont get CBS Mpls or a couple other stations. Mankato you basically get the 4 networks and thats it

Dish has their SV offerings hampered due to a rule from 5 years ago. Dish use to offer folks distants who really shouldn't have. I will admit at the time I was one. Our cabin qualified for all distants but CBS (there is one nearby) but locals were available so technically I shouldnt have been able to get both but Dish allowed it. So I had Mpls locals and NBC, ABC & FOX from LA and Denver. The FCC cracked down and 12/1/06 Dish lost the ability to provide ANY station outside of your designated market....even if you legally qualified for it
Last year they could offer stations as "fill in" to markets that didnt have the full 4 nets. So in the case of Mankato, that only has CBS & FOX, they could get ABC & NBC from Minneapolis. This allowed Dish to offer every market out there...even if it had only 1 station. They could pipe in a neighboring market but ONLY if the market didnt have that affiliate. That closed the "unserved" rule

In your case WYMT is considered the Lexington market. However it is not on either satellite company. I assume for one of two reasons
-they cannot get a good signal to the main POP in Lexington....however since WKYT is a sister station they probably have the resources to get it there..
-if more than one affiliate is in a market, unless they are licensed to different states, both do not get must carry...in simple terms Dish and Directv do not have to carry both. They carry WKYT. Gray Television (owner of both) can ask for must carry but Dish or Directv dont have to carry it. I have a feeling its more point 1

If WYMT was on satellite, I have a feeling Directv would offer it in your area as SV.

If you are trying to get Lexington locals where you are currently in Whitesburg, the easiest thing to do is "move". Heck you already have an address in that market (your second location), use that as the physical address. Lots of folks are "movers".

Dish recently started being allowed to sell distants but only to RV'ers and semi-drivers and you have to submit paperwork to get them. They get NY & LA stations.

Believe me...I wish Dish and Direct could sell you any station that you wanted as long as you paid for it and were in the spotbeam. But the FCC and Nielsen say otherwise. That is why I have to resort to 2 accounts with 2 different companies. Directv I have Mankato & Minneapolis locals. Dish I have Duluth, MN locals