Dish Offset or Prime?

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Club Chapin

SatelliteGuys Family
Original poster
Jun 25, 2006
43
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Last Newbie question for the night. hopefully I'll be ready to pull the trigger on a new system by the weekend. I am leaning toward a 120cm.

What are the advantages of a prime vs offset focus dish, of the same size? Is one gainier than the other? I know that a prime focus dish can do Cband (only strong transponders on 120cm I beleive). What are other advantages and disadvantages of one or the other?

I think that I am mainly interested in KU, but if there is a lot of HD on C, I may be pursuaded to go that route. I am hesitant to go larger than 120cm for asthetic reasons. I think that 120cm would be a kick butt ku, but a marginal C antenna.

I live in Seattle. How small of a prime focus could I get away with there for Cband?

Thanks, Pete
 
'Prime Focus Antennas
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The basic design principle of the parabolic curve can be incorporated into antenna designs in a variety of ways. Dishes with a focal point directly at the front and center of the reflector are called prime focus antennas.
Prime focus antennas are easy to construct and point toward the desired satellite. There are two main design disadvantages, however: the feedhorn and feed support structure block part of the reflector surface and the feedhorn must look back at the dish at such an angle that it can also intercept noise from the "hot" earth located directly behind the reflector. The feedhorn's illumination of the antenna must be attenuated or tapered to minimize noise contribution from the perimeter of the dish. This design necessity acts to reduce the antenna's efficiency.
Prime focus antennas use two different types of feedhorn support bracket. A three or four-legged support provides a rigid support structure for the feedhorn and LNB over the center of the dish and at the distance specified by the manufacturer. The main disadvantage of this structural approach is that it may be difficult to make minor variations in the focal length, that is the distance from reflector center to the lip of the feed opening. The buttonhook structural design uses a single support member to position the LNB and feedhorn. This tubular leg can usually be slid in and out of a clamp or bracket at the center of the dish, allowing the installer to fine-tune the focal length. However, the buttonhook support may not always position the feed at the precise center of the dish, especially when the feedhorn is weighted down by multiple LNBs.
Motorized dishes may experience feedhorn movement when the antenna is moved from one satellite to the next; heavy winds can also temporarily move the feedhorn away from the antenna's focus. Guy wire kits are available which the installer can use to provide additional structural rigidity to the buttonhook support if required for a given installation.

Offset-fed Antennas
--------------------------------------
The dish design of choice for most digital DTH systems is called an offset-fed antenna. Here the manufacturer uses a smaller subsection of the same parabolic curve used to produce prime focus antennas, but with a major axis in the north/south direction, and a smaller minor axis in the east/west direction.
With the offset-fed design, the feedhorn is no longer positioned at the front and center of the reflector but rather offset to the bottom of the dish. However, the feed would be centrally located if we extended the parabolic curve of the offset fed dish to the full length of a prime focus parabola.
The offset fed antenna design offers several distinct advantages over its prime focus counterparts. There is no feedhorn blockage, an important consideration when the antenna aperture is less than one meter in diameter. Moreover, the offset angle at which the feedhorn tilts up toward the reflector is such that if the feed looks over the antenna's rim it will see the cold sky rather than the hot earth. Due to these advantages, the offset-fed antenna can achieve higher efficiency levels than prime focus antennas can generally attain.
The low inclination angles required by offset antennas also may be beneficial in certain climate zones. In tropical or semi-tropical environments, rain will not collect inside the reflector. In cold weather climates, snow will slide off of the antenna surface rather than accumulating inside the reflector.'
 
you would need at least a 6 footer for C-band. A 120cm may get some strong stuff (the very strong stuff) and the 6 footer works for most stuff (I have a 6 footer) but there are still some issues with weaker signals :)
 
6 foot solid prime focus (Sadoun sells them. The Fortec ones) with a ASC421 C-band LNB

G4 nets on my Pansat 1500-90 to 92 on average :)
pouring rain on Saturday...nets were at 75 :D
 
Ok I have a question related to the above...can you do an offset fed C band system? I have never seen this done, but if it was possible couldn't you get away with a smaller dish??
 
Thanks! I think I will start with a 120cm offset for Ku ind if I really get the bug or when I find that one thing I HAVE to see, I will then consider the upgrad to a 6' for Cband.

Pete
 
icstephen said:
Ok I have a question related to the above...can you do an offset fed C band system? I have never seen this done, but if it was possible couldn't you get away with a smaller dish??


Yes, there are some offset focus C band antennas but you rarely see them for home use. They're mostly used in commercial installations. As for being able to use a smaller dish because it's offset, the answer is no. The reason you need an 8.5' or larger dish is because at 8.5' the beamwidth of the dish is tight enough to focus on only one satellite whenever the satellites are spaced at only 2 degrees apart as they are at most places in the arc over the US. This way you don't get as much interference from adjacent satellites. Anyway, this is no different with an offset dish than it is with a prime focus.

As for using a 6' dish, at some points in the arc, where the satellites are spaced wider apart or where there are no overlapping frequencies on the adjacent satellites you can get away with it. I, myself, have a 6' dish that I use in this manner, but if your interested in C band I really think you should get at least an 8.5' dish. An 8.5' dish is not that much bigger than a 6'. So, if your going to go to the time and trouble of installing a 6' dish you may as well go ahead an go with a 8.5' as it's not that much bigger and it will be 2 degree compliant.
 
Unless of course you get a 6' dish for FREE then its WELL worth the effort :)
 
PSB said:
Unless of course you get a 6' dish for FREE then its WELL worth the effort :)

Amen brother...hehe

on the size that's pretty much what I thought I was just curious...I subscribe to the Tim Allen school of thought (bigger is better unless its free;) ), I had often thought I would love to have use of one of the seti arrays or the Arasebo (sp?) set up...now that's a BIG dish...he he.
 
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