DISH-Player DVRs vs. Standard DVRs on E* website

[dlsnyder]

I was just looking at the Dish DVR page on their website to see if they have added any promos for the 522, and I noticed that they now make a distinction between DISH Player DVRs and Standard DVRs. The 510 is at the top of the list of DISH Player DVRs, along with the 522 and 921. The 501/508 and 721 are listed as Standard DVRs.

Is this only relating to which units require the $4.99 DVR fee, or are they possibly making a distinction as to which units will get NBR and which won't?

 

[wmhjr]

At this time, it's just marketing

As a matter of fact, my 508's have a "Dishplayer" logo on them. I think they're just trying to "justify" which ones pay the VOD fee, and which ones don't. Having both 508's and a 510, I've found absolutely no difference between them except that the 510 has more storage. Of course, if the unit dies there's no way to get the content off of it, so more is not always better.

I was just looking at the Dish DVR page on their website to see if they have added any promos for the 522, and I noticed that they now make a distinction between DISH Player DVRs and Standard DVRs. The 510 is at the top of the list of DISH Player DVRs, along with the 522 and 921. The 501/508 and 721 are listed as Standard DVRs.

Is this only relating to which units require the $4.99 DVR fee, or are they possibly making a distinction as to which units will get NBR and which won't?

 

[dlsnyder]

I also have a 508 which has "Dishplayer" printed on it which is what makes me wonder what kind of distinction they are now trying to make. It sounds like they are deliberately trying to establish two different tiers of DVR products so they can offer two different levels of product support. In spite of what Charlie told Scott about NBR it wouldn't surprise me if only the units in the new "Dishplayer" catagory (i.e. units you pay DVR fee for) will get the update.

 

[MikeD-C05]

That is what I said. They would only add nbr to the 510 and they should add to the 921 so they can charge a dvr fee . It wouldn't make since to add it to the standard dvrs like the 501/508/721 unless they are going to charge a dvr fee for those older dvrs too.

 

[BobaBird]

What does the NBR feature have to do with a monthly service fee? What will E* have to do every month to keep the feature working and thus justify the fee? Doesn't make sense.

 

[BFG]

Of course none of the DVR fees make since. There's nothing dish is providing on a monthly basis that makes the DVR work. (well beside programm, but you're already paying for that )

But those 2 categories have been there for a long time. I think all of them say dishplayer on the STB...

 

[DishSatUser]

I have a 7200 that has "DishPlayer" on it

Not sure what the distiction about having the logo or not really is.

 

[Pepper]

Neither the 721 nor 522, at least any that I have seen, have "DishPlayer" visible anywhere. The image on the 522 spec sheet does have the logo but I've not seen it on any actual units.

 

[dlsnyder]

What I was getting at is the model Tivo uses with the Pioneer DVR/DVD burner units. There is Tivo technology in it and you can use a basic guide for free. If you want the real Tivo features like NBR, wish lists, etc. then you have to pay the fee. Since we already have a basic guide and recording capability that we are getting without a fee on the 50x's there would logically be a charge for any additional functionality that E* would add to the unit. As to whether or not that additional functionality was WORTH the fee is up to each individual user.

That being said I am not sure E* can be that selective with upgrades - adding features to large numbers of individual receivers. Then if a user decides to sell the unit or discontinue the service they would have to disable the feature somehow. Maintaining two separate sets of code long term for the 50x series might be more trouble than it is worth.

 

[wmhjr]

Wrong, wrong, WRONG!!!!

Please recover from the Charliebotomy! You cannot compare the model "Tivo uses with the .....". You are only mentioning a very insignificant subset of the features you get beyond the basic guide with the Tivo enhanced service. They absolutely do not compare. NBR is absolutely nothing except a query on titles that exist in the program guide. It is built into the sw of the unit itself. There is no "service" required for this to work - just get it in the SW, period. If you own MS Word, and there's a feature in it that's added with a patch, do you then pay every month to use the feature that you already paid for? Don't think so (unless you're a corporation with a MS Select Enterprise agreement).

The upgraded service that you pay monthly for Tivo, also gets you a bunch more things. It understands if the program is a first run or repeat. It allows you to remotely schedule recordings over the internet. There's a whole laundry list of things it does - that are "services" that TiVo provides to you on a monthly basis. To be specific, if TiVo quits providing the service, the feature won't work any more. In Dish's case, they don't do anything to begin with. It's in your DVR.

You trying to compare these two models only serves to further confuse the public into believing that the Dish VOD fee is in fact not unethical. It is. It's crap.

Additionally, there's another problem with your analogy. If you don't pay the VOD fee with Dish, your entire unit doesn't work - at all. Not even as a plain receiver. It's dead. The only thing you can do with it is watch something that you recorded prior to not paying the VOD fee.

As for code branches, Dish does a pretty darn poor job of maintaining a single code branch for receivers. I wouldn't want to even consider having them brand code for different sorts of subscribers for the same hardware platform. that's REALLY scary.

What I was getting at is the model Tivo uses with the Pioneer DVR/DVD burner units. There is Tivo technology in it and you can use a basic guide for free. If you want the real Tivo features like NBR, wish lists, etc. then you have to pay the fee. Since we already have a basic guide and recording capability that we are getting without a fee on the 50x's there would logically be a charge for any additional functionality that E* would add to the unit. As to whether or not that additional functionality was WORTH the fee is up to each individual user.

That being said I am not sure E* can be that selective with upgrades - adding features to large numbers of individual receivers. Then if a user decides to sell the unit or discontinue the service they would have to disable the feature somehow. Maintaining two separate sets of code long term for the 50x series might be more trouble than it is worth.

 

[dlsnyder]

...If you own MS Word, and there's a feature in it that's added with a patch, do you then pay every month to use the feature that you already paid for? Don't think so (unless you're a corporation with a MS Select Enterprise agreement)....

I think the answer you were looking for is "not yet". I am assured that Microsoft is already working hard to correct that.

OK, next related question. Over on the Retailer Chat recap thread it was mentioned that the MSRP has changed for the 501 and 508. Since E* still lists those boxes on the website, and they have now issued "new" MSRP figures for them, are they going to resume production of those units? Will we see new ones for sale/lease or are they still just going to be refurbs?

 

[wmhjr]

As for the Word question, not really.

As somebody who has a Microsoft Premier Enterprise Agreement, and a Select Enterprise Agreement, I disagree. MS is - and has been - working on a distributed model that will allow them to gain revenues for basically leasing their products. Specifically, this is more of a hosted model similar to an offering such as Salesforce.com, etc. In this case they would be seeking month over month revenues for actual utilization of hosted products which are currently only offered in shrink-wrapped form.

Today, MS is scared to death of the open source behemoth, and is doing everything they can to avoid losing market share. To that end, I'm aware of absolutely no initiatives to start charging for patches of existing supported products. Note that all products at some time will go end of life and lose support. Examples are the long overdue elimination of support for the NT4 OS (which has been pushed back every year for the past three years). That's normal, and OK. Also, please not that when the EOL a product, it still functions. Quite different from the MPEG3 vs MPEG4 issue surrounding Dish and the 921/942.

As for the 501s and 508s, I'm pretty sure that they will not go back into production, but rather that you'll see refurbs. Doing otherwise would clearly undermine the whole VOD fiasco among other things.

Thoughts?

I think the answer you were looking for is "not yet". I am assured that Microsoft is already working hard to correct that.

OK, next related question. Over on the Retailer Chat recap thread it was mentioned that the MSRP has changed for the 501 and 508. Since E* still lists those boxes on the website, and they have now issued "new" MSRP figures for them, are they going to resume production of those units? Will we see new ones for sale/lease or are they still just going to be refurbs?

 

[GaryPen]

Is this only relating to which units require the $4.99 DVR fee, or are they possibly making a distinction as to which units will get NBR and which won't?

The former. It is pure marketing BS to somehow imply an added value for your $4.99/mo.

From what I understand, some "DishPlayer" models, despite the VOD fee, will not be getting NBR, anyway. And, even if they did, it is merely a feature of the model, not any added value monthly service, as wmhjr correctly points out.