OTHER Do I need a bigger dish?

[Michael J.]

I’m new to FTA. My wife asked me to put together a TV receiver for camping trip in Adirondacks. I know that where we are going there is no OTA signal. I bought TBS5980 USB tuner, Satlink WS-6933 signal meter, Folding portable dish, Standard Single Linear LNB, WSI ESX521U-FE Universal LNB (this one is a piece of garbage). The receiver and a laptop it is connected to use between 14 and 20W which is good because my power plant consist of 35Ah battery and 15W solar panel. I’m testing all above in my home now in northern NJ. My goal is to pick up NBC feeds from SES-3.
First I tried to pick up FTA programming on Galaxy 19. At the beginning I had a problem reading compass. I have this military style one but I don’t think I was able to get accuracy better than 3 degrees. I found a better way: a plum, a piece of paper and GoSkyWatch app. I mark the plum’s string shadow on paper and read current sun azimuth from the app. Next I draw an N-S line and measure satellite true azimuth. I believe it’s more precise than compass. I picked up TV channels and radio with no problem. My SatLink shows me PWR=76 dBuV, S/N 6.9 dB, Quality 35-45%, signal locked. Tuner scanned successfully and I had a solid reception. When I pointed at SES-3 I could not get a signal lock. PWR was even higher reading 78 to 81 dBuV. I tried different DR, any value I could find for feeds. I tried different time up to 10PM. No signal lock. I repeated my procedure with Galaxy 19 and get channels within 5 minutes. Get back to SES-3 and nothing.
Both SES-3 and Galaxy 19 have similar signal strength for my location which is around 49 dBW. The dish is 24x20” and the guy told me it’s an equivalent to 60cm round.
What am I doing wrong? Do I need a bigger dish? Maybe I’m trying the wrong satellite? I found that AMC 6 is out of life and NBC moved to SES-3. On another candidate, AMC 9 I did not see any signal on posted NBC TP.
Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated.
Michael

 

[FTA4PA]

I’m new to FTA. My wife asked me to put together a TV receiver for camping trip in Adirondacks. I know that where we are going there is no OTA signal. I bought TBS5980 USB tuner, Satlink WS-6933 signal meter, Folding portable dish, Standard Single Linear LNB, WSI ESX521U-FE Universal LNB (this one is a piece of garbage). The receiver and a laptop it is connected to use between 14 and 20W which is good because my power plant consist of 35Ah battery and 15W solar panel. I’m testing all above in my home now in northern NJ. My goal is to pick up NBC feeds from SES-3.
First I tried to pick up FTA programming on Galaxy 19. At the beginning I had a problem reading compass. I have this military style one but I don’t think I was able to get accuracy better than 3 degrees. I found a better way: a plum, a piece of paper and GoSkyWatch app. I mark the plum’s string shadow on paper and read current sun azimuth from the app. Next I draw an N-S line and measure satellite true azimuth. I believe it’s more precise than compass. I picked up TV channels and radio with no problem. My SatLink shows me PWR=76 dBuV, S/N 6.9 dB, Quality 35-45%, signal locked. Tuner scanned successfully and I had a solid reception. When I pointed at SES-3 I could not get a signal lock. PWR was even higher reading 78 to 81 dBuV. I tried different DR, any value I could find for feeds. I tried different time up to 10PM. No signal lock. I repeated my procedure with Galaxy 19 and get channels within 5 minutes. Get back to SES-3 and nothing.
Both SES-3 and Galaxy 19 have similar signal strength for my location which is around 49 dBW. The dish is 24x20” and the guy told me it’s an equivalent to 60cm round.
What am I doing wrong? Do I need a bigger dish? Maybe I’m trying the wrong satellite? I found that AMC 6 is out of life and NBC moved to SES-3. On another candidate, AMC 9 I did not see any signal on posted NBC TP.
Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated.
Michael

Welcome to Satellite Guys Michael! Most of the channels on Galaxy 19 (97w) are DVB, symbol rate in low 20000's and FEC of 3/4 while NBC on SES-3 (103w) is DVB-S2 8PSK, symbol rate of 30000 and FEC 5/6. While your dish may be able to lock some channels on 97w it is not big enough to gather the required signal on 103w. For ku band FTA reception we usually recommend a minimum of 90cm (36") - bigger is better. I believe your problem will be solved if you get a larger dish.

 

[Titanium]

The dish is mighty small, but most DVBS SD channels should come in if no heavy cloud cover or inclement weather. You will likely have problems receiving other satellites as they are typically weaker than the 97w transponders and use DVBS2. DVBS2 signals will require better signal quality to lock.

The problem might also be simple, such as the LNB LO setting in the SES-3 installation menu. The Universal LNBF has a dual LO of 9650/10600. Be sure that the LO frequency setting is correct.

 

[KE4EST]

Welcome to the site!!
Yes, that small dish will have to be spot on. Also check your settings as others have said and let us know.

 

[spongella]

Welcome to FTA Michael J!

 

[Michael J.]

Thank you for responses.
I based the size of the dish I selected on a table at LyngSat maps. For camping on a remote boat accessible site I went with the smallest possible size. I did not know that new broadcast techniques requires larger dishes. But still being limited by my canoe I ordered 70cm. The one I have is folded and does not look halves match properly. 70cm is solid Winegard DS-2076. It will be 36% larger. I just hope it will be enough.
WSI ESX521U-FE Universal LNB has two LO frequencies, but I was not able to get any channel even on Galaxy 19. I think its specs on eBay are exaggerated. I also tried Invacom SNH-031 LNB but I apparently bought a broken one. The last one no name has only one LO of 10750 and works. Are there any recommendation for a better one?
Michael

 

[FaT Air]

Fpr the WSI ESX521U-FE Universal LNB to receive the CONUS satellites (11700 to 12200) it needs the 22 Khz ON, LNB Type: Standard and L.O set to 10600.
Or if Universal type is available and selected. Make sure L.O is 9750/10600. 22Khz is 'automatic'.

Can't find my old notes. They would say how my Channel Master 30 inch dish worked on 103W. Using a dedicated1.2 meter (48 inch) on it now.

Standard is all that's needed for CONUS satellites. PLL type can help with marginal signals - improved performance on my 30 inch dishes.
Dealers: KE4EST GotCband Titaniumsatellite SAT-AV HYPERMEGASAT

 

[Titanium]

Another member had that fold-able dish a few years ago and he couldn't get it to work either. The surface is not very accurate, so on top of it being too small, not much signal is converging at the LNBF feedhorn opening.

For best KU performance, buy a PLL type LNBF like the Maverick KU BAND PLL LNBF Free-To-Air Standard Linear FTA LNBF http://r.ebay.com/CcRPZS . Imported by a SatelliteGuy member and sold buy a SatelliteGuy member!

 

[FTA4PA]

For best KU performance, buy a PLL type LNBF like the Maverick KU BAND PLL LNBF Free-To-Air Standard Linear FTA LNBF http://r.ebay.com/CcRPZS . Imported by a SatelliteGuy member and sold buy a SatelliteGuy member!

I was just going to recommend that one but you beat me to it Titanium! Good luck getting you setup working Michael J!

 

[Michael J.]

Big thank you.
I checked my folded dish with rulers and caliper and top 2/3 surface looks good but the rest no so good. It is riveted so corrections will take time. Waiting for Winegard.
Thanking for LNB advices I ordered Maverick MK1-PLL and Geosat SL1PLL. I'll post results.
Michael

 

[. Raine]

Welcome to SatGuys!

. But still being limited by my canoe I ordered 70cm. The one I have is folded and does not look halves match properly. 70cm is solid Winegard DS-2076. It will be 36% larger. I just hope it will be enough.
Michael

The Winegard DS2076 is actually 76 cm, [30"] not 70 cm. You should be able to pull the channels in that you want with that, my DS2076 here pulls them in. As others have said, a PLL LNB will improve your reception. A 96 cm, [36"] would be better still, almost a sure thing with a 36", as long as your LOS is good. Good luck!

 

[armadillo_115]

But still being limited by my canoe I ordered 70cm.

 

[mr3p]

I love topics like this. Is there such thing as a dish too big? I would take a 20ft if I had the space

 

[bpalone]

I have a 30" that isn't in pure form, has a few small dents and it worked fine on 103W from my home in NE Wyoming. So your Winegard should do the trick. If the wind isn't to strong and is from the right direction, the dish might be able to ease the trip a bit, a small sail. But, might be bit interesting as you are using a canoe.

 

[Michael J.]

Winegard arrived. It is actually 76v83, elongated vertically. I was able to put it on a tripod from my folded dish. The LBN I complained before, WSI ESX521U-FE, gave me good, solid reception. I have multiple NBC channels, just watched golf Open. I hope the goal to watch Olympics on campground will be achieved.
Canoe is to access my campsite, I measured it: it is 30" wide...
A day later the new Maverick MK1-PLL arrived. I installed it and checked with SatLink meter. Looked good, signal locked, Q 49%. Hooked up my receiver, ran the scan and... nothing. I use 2 viewers: TBSViewer and DVB Dream. Checked LO and SR for scanners, no luck. Switched back to WSI LBN and rescan successfully. Is it possible that my receiver TBS5980 has a problem with PLL LBN? I could not found any options in viewers that could suggest PLL. All drivers for the receivers are current. Any suggestions please...

 

[Titanium]

The Maverick LNBF is a standard type with single LO frequency of 10750. The WSI is a universal type with two LO frequencies of 9750/10600. Need to change the LNB type in the install menu for the Standard (or single) LNB LO frequency of 10750).

 

[KE4EST]

Yes, change your LO and you should be good to go.

 

[Michael J.]

The very first thing I did when changing from double LO to single LO was to change this value in scan options for TBS Viewer and in LNB setup for DVB Dream. Finally DVB Dream scanned 4 channels but TBS Viewer did not find any. Again I switched to WSI (changed LO) and scanned over 20 channels of which 12 to my interest. It seams that with my hardware WSI LNB is better.

 

[KE4EST]

Do you have the Skew set the same each time?

 

[Michael J.]

Yes. Skew is set to dish point value and than fine-tuned (that is +- 5 deg) for best Q value.