Do PVR FTA Boxes work?

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rjc3895

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Sep 28, 2004
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My DVD Recorder for my television stopped working, so I am tossing around the idea of getting a new FTA box with PVR capabilities rather than getting a new DVD recorder. A low end DVD recorder will cost about $130.00.

My current FTA box is an old Megasat. It works fine, but it can only store 23 satellite positions using DiSEqc 1.2. I use a C-band dish with a V-Box controller. So I can move the dish to other sateliites with the V-box remote, but I would rather use only one remote to do everything.

So I'm considering a new FTA box that can store more satellite positions with PVR. How well do the PVR receivers work? Are they reliable? I currently do not have an HD TV, but I also was considering getting an HD FTA box (with PVR) as long as it can work with the old standard def televisions. Any thoughts/suggestions/recomendations are greatly appreciated. Thanks.

RJC
 
I have 2 Visionsat's and they work great. One has a 320GB HDD and the other uses a simple 8GB thumb drive

There were some hiccups in the first batches but the software upgrades have more than made up for it and it runs pretty smooth now. Check out the review area
 
I have a Coolsat 7100 microPVR and it works pretty well.

Be aware that since most of FTA does not have a program guide, you'll have to do manual recordings or timers for most everything. Probably similar to what you had to do with the DVD recorder unless it had some sort of fancy program guide stuff in it.
 
I have a Coolsat 7100 microPVR and it works pretty well.

Be aware that since most of FTA does not have a program guide, you'll have to do manual recordings or timers for most everything. Probably similar to what you had to do with the DVD recorder unless it had some sort of fancy program guide stuff in it.

I had to set the date and time to record. It did have a TV Guide feature to set the channel you wanted, but this only works for OTA channels, and I live in a valley, so FTA channels are all I get.

So basically, the PVR feature does not allow me to pick Galaxy 18, channel 21 for 1:00 PM and then have it move my dish to Galaxy 19, channel 167 for 2:30 PM. Is that correct?
 
Do any of these FTA receivers with PVR functionality handle dedicated recording better than others? I'll explain...

Currently, I use a DVD recorder with a hard disk to record one channel about 22 hours a day. The DVD recorder can record up to 6 hour blocks, and I can watch the program block that is currently being recorded.

From what I've come to understand, the FTA receivers break everything to 2 hour blocks (a file system limitation) and you can't watch a block that is currently being recorded.

Does any receiver let you watch a "block" that's currently being recorded? If there's a program you want to archive that spans two blocks, when you join them together on your PC, is there any noticiceable cut point?

The hard disk based DVD recorder works so well, I'd buy another one instead of a receiver with a PVR, but they don't really sell DVD recorders with hard drives any more in the US at this time. And I'm hoping a FTA DVR receiver would prevent me from building a PC just to capture this one channel. And I think I may running out of time on one of my older DVD recorders.
 
From what I've come to understand, the FTA receivers break everything to 2 hour blocks (a file system limitation) and you can't watch a block that is currently being recorded.

Does any receiver let you watch a "block" that's currently being recorded? If there's a program you want to archive that spans two blocks, when you join them together on your PC, is there any noticiceable cut point?

The Visionsat I record hockey games on and its one file (usually 3+ hours long). I can start watching the hockey game at the beginning while its recording. I can also record a program and watch another program on the hard drive
 
additional info...

... on the Visoionsat IV-200:

The 300 may have shipped to a few beta testers or dealers, but it doesn't seem to have ever been made widely available.
Other than having on-board flash, all the features it was supposed to have over the 200, were eventually rolled into the IV-200 through firmware upgrades

The 200 breaks recordings up into 4gb chunks, if you record a long length time-slot.
That's a function of the FAT file system it uses.
The 200 plays them back seamlessly, and you'd never know how many blocks it used.
I think it defaults to recording 24 hours, under some circumstances.

I have made DVDs from the recordings without trouble.
In the very few instances where I needed a show that spanned two 4gb blocks, my editor (VideoReDo) handled it seamlessly.

As Iceberg said above, all the limitations jerwucef mentioned are NOT PRESENT in the IV-200.
The unit is SD, not HD, has no OTA capability, and seems to be less available than it was a year ago.
You might find 'em on eBay.?.

So, Do PVR FTA Boxes work?
Note my signature. :)
 
I'm leaning toward the visionsat-200. I found a few that are reasonably priced. Thanks.
 
I have the ippvr on my nFusion NOVA and it works great for about only 30 seconds.

Thanks. That's good to know. I feel for you though. I'm glad I stayed away from that box. From the reviews I see for the Nfusion, the focus is on the auto Bin update via the Internet. Hmm I can only imagine what that's all about.

Anyway. They seller on Ebay had a buy it now price of 89.99 or best offer for the Visionsat. I tried $75.00 - no go. I then tried $80.00 and got it. So, if I add just an 8GB flash drive, that would be better than my 4.7GB DVD recorder, and it cost me about the same amount of money, plus I get a better, faster FTA box taht permits me to record shows on different sats while I'm away. I like that.

Thanks.
 
prefer small hard drive

Congrats on scoring a bargain.
So, if I add just an 8GB flash drive, that would be better than my 4.7GB DVD recorder,
Well, when I first got mine, I plugged in a little USB-powered external drive.
It had a 2½" mechanism inside, so very low power draw.
That was 40gb, and provided wonderful performance!

Most external drives you buy today, would have a 3½" mechanism, and require more power.
So, they come with their own little power supply.
That's how my 500gb Maxtor works.

Unless you change the defaults, the receiver keeps the last two hours of the current channel, in a buffer on hard drive.
So, at any time, you can back up and review what was on.
This capability is so valuable (to me) that I leave it on.
Looks like the receiver allocates around 3gb to make it work.

Don't know how much wear a flash thumb drive can take.
And, the price of 8gb and larger drives have only come down just recently.
Because I have several shows set to record on timers, I'm much more comfortable with a drive of at least 40gb (30+ hours).
But, to each his own. - :cool:
 
congrats on the pickup :)

Once you get it check the software version. The newest factory software hopefully is in it...if not I'll scrounge around here for a copy for ya ;)
 
As usual, I'm just reading this thread when it's finished, but I thought that I'd add a datapoint anyway, even though relative more to HD than SD receivers.

I record FTA via 4 different methods.

(1) PC PCI card (Twinhan 1020a or TT3200 {and also OTA ATSC cards})--> TSREADER. TSREADER has an EPG function that can be used manually. Recordings are a single file regardless of size. Recordings can be played back via a number of methods, such as direct to a ROKU, VLC to a PopcornHour for HD, or several other methods of SD, or you can burn DVDs. {I don't have a PopcornHour yet, I use Roku.}
You CAN play back files while they are recording, but it is not very user friendly.

(2) Coolsat-8100. The 8100 has a USB port {in the back} to which you can plug in an external hard drive or thumb drive. The drives are FAT32 formatted, so the maximum file size is a bit over 4 GB. With the factory firmware, this PVR function doesn't work, however with newer versions of factory firmware, or better yet, even newer but obsolete versions of hacker firmware, the PVR function works fairly well. It seems like each version of firmware behaves slightly different with respect to functionality. With some earlier versions, you could pause live video, and it would be recorded to disk, and you could start it playing again, and I think it would still be recording in the background, however I never investigated how long it would go. With the newer versions, I've started up recording, and it won't allow me to pause or playback while recording, but I'm guessing that there is probably a workaround that I haven't found. One problem with the 4 GB chunks, and that is that it seems like there is a maximum of about 10 files per recording, ie a maximum of about 50 GB. I tried recording a high speed network NFL game, and it cut off the end of the game (with the game winning drive) because of this limit. I think the limit is due to the fact that they number the files (that will be seemlessly played back together) with a 1 digit number, like 0-9 , and when it gets up to 9, it just stops recording. This wouldn't be an issue for SD or 99% of even moderate to high speed HD recordings, but the high speed network feeds really spit out GBs of data. You can set the recording time to 24 hours, which would easily fit within the file limitations. The files can be moved to a PC for editing and alternative playback .

(3) Diamond-9000 . My 9000 was an ebay purchase, and it was crippled by the hacker software that the original owner put on it, however I still use it quite a bit. Like the 8100, it has a USB port, however it is on the front, which is very convenient for use with a thumb drive. I've recorded entire OTA ATSC HD NFL games on a 32GB thumb drive, and moved over to my laptop for playing back interesting plays, capturing frames, etc. Also connect a 500GB external hard drive to it, which now has 3 or 4 NFL games on it, and hopefully one more (for the other thumb). The only annoying thing about the front USB connection is that if your chair is to the right of the receiver, the USB connector blocks the IR remote control.
The 9000 also splits up files, but it splits them into approximately 1.5 GB files, however it numbers them with 2 digit numbers, so an OTA ATSC NFL game for example went up to like 16 files or something like that (OTA doesn't require as much memory as the high speed sat feeds). I haven't figured out a way to record and play back at the same time with the 9000.
Main problem with MY 9000 is that it has a severe skipping problem, apparently due to the hacker software. It works PERFECTLY on OTA ATSC. When I first got it, it would work on SD FTA, and on low to medium speed HD, but skipped badly on high speed network HD. Then, for no known reason, it started working on EVERYTHING, regardless of speed, HD, or SD. Worked perfectly for a couple months, then it reverted to skipping badly on high speed HD, then started skipping on medium speed HD (like PBS), and now it even skips occasionally on some SD content. But again the skipping problems are probably due to the hacker software, so I suspect that a virgin 9000 would be a good PVR. And I think that the skipping isn't a PVR problem, but a playback problem, in that if played back on computer I didn't notice the skips, however it can't even record the high speed network stuff, as it pretty much shuts down the receiver when you try. But again a non-hacked 9000 would probably be OK.

(4) TIVO. I have 3 stand alone series I TIVOs, and often use these for regular SD recordings. The TIVOs are more user friendly, however I don't have mine integrated with the FTA receivers to the extent that it can change channels. I'm sure that it can be done, but I find it easier to just set the TIVO to record, then switch the FTA receiver to the channel I want.

###################################
I pretty much just use my Diamond 9000 for OTA ATSC HD and satellite FTA SD and some low-medium speed HD stuff, and SD mpeg4 content. I use the Coolsat for OTA ATSC HD, and for both SD and high speed HD FTA recording, and for MPEG4 content. I use TSREADER for recording anything, ie ATSC OTA (via an Air2PC PCI card, DVB-S2 via TT3200, or regular DVB-S via Twinhan. I currently can't play back MPEG4 recording though. I use TIVOs for most SD stuff. Not quite as good as recording directly from FTA satellite or OTA ATSC, but much more convenient.

There.... another data point on 4 other methods, for future reference. I LOVE the PVR recordings, particularly for NFL games, because I like to play back controversial plays and play the HD back frame by frame on my laptop. It sure requires a lot of storage space for HD, but you can get a heck of a lot of SD on them.
 
Thanks BJ for the information. At this time my budget would not allow for the cost of the HD receivers. In a sense I feel like I threw away $80 bucks because I plan on moving to HD when the budget allows for it, but my hope is that when I am ready for an HD receiver the price will have dropped quite a bit.
 
rjc - ya didn't waste $80 on an SD receiver.
But, I hope you don't feel like ya blew $500 once ya get that HD! :)
Given the current state of HD FTA boxes, I think your SD will come in handy in the future.

B.J. - regarding the skipping on high speed recordings...
I think I already mentioned this to someone in the past, but...
Is it possible the hard drive is to blame?
I have USB adapters from various sources, and some suck for throughput.
The more recent ones which also support eSATA, seem to be much better.
Then, too, the hard drive fragmentation may be a contributing factor.
I'd reformat my drive, use several different drives, and try several different boxes/interfaces.
In particular, I'd focus on SATA hard drives and eSATA-capable boxes; they're everywhere these days.
 
.....

B.J. - regarding the skipping on high speed recordings...
I think I already mentioned this to someone in the past, but...
Is it possible the hard drive is to blame?
It's likely involved with some of the weird behavior I have seen, but right now the skipping occurs whether or not the hard drive is attached. Actually the recordings themselves don't have the skipping if played back elsewhere, but do skip if played back on the receiver. One time a strange thing happened, in that I use several different drives with the receiver, and one time it seemed to be remembering info from a corrupted drive that wasn't connected. When I cleared things, it worked better.
One other time, it was skipping without the drive, but I connected the drive, hit pause (which starts it using the drive) then allowed it to start up again, and the skipping stopped. Shortly after that is when everything started working with or without the drive attached. Something strange going on inside this receiver. I get the feeling that if I can figure out what triggers the problem that there may be a workaround.

I have USB adapters from various sources, and some suck for throughput.
The more recent ones which also support eSATA, seem to be much better.
Yes, and I've found that all cables aren't created equal either. I have one cable that works fine error wise, but it runs MUCH slower than my other cables, ie I transfer a file from drive to computer in about 10-15 minutes with one cable, and it took an hour or two with the other cable. I don't know if there is such a thing as USB-1 and USB-2 cables, but I'm starting to wonder. They look the same.
Then, too, the hard drive fragmentation may be a contributing factor.
I'd reformat my drive, use several different drives, and try several different boxes/interfaces.
In particular, I'd focus on SATA hard drives and eSATA-capable boxes; they're everywhere these days.

As above, the skipping isn't related to the drives, but I do generally occasionally reformat drives when I'm having problems, and once I did error checking on a drive that was causing problems, and that seemed to help a lot with whatever problems I was having at the time (can't remember).

Re the SATA drives, one of my external drives IS a SATA drive, but I usually try to stay away from them, because they once gave me severe problems when I used one in my PC. I have a Twinhan card in the PC, and any time I'd do any data transfer to the SATA drive, the Twinhan card would shut down. It was really weird. There didn't seem to be any IRQ conflict or anything, it's just that the SATA drive seemed to have a higher priority, and any time it was in use, no data could be processed by the Twinhan. So I took it out of the computer. It seems to work OK in an external USB enclosure, but that's why I usually buy the IDE type drives, although it seems like it's getting harder to find anything but SATA.

What's the relative speed of a typical thumbdrive compared to an external USB hard drive?
 
BJ,
I ran into problems like that with identical cables... so called 'high-quality' cables...
One that, performance wise, would just plain suck while an identical cable was flawless.
I've actually found that I typically get better performance from the cheap'o cables than the over-priced gimmickry...
Go figure...
 
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