I'm trying to find out if the NFL Sunday Ticket broadcast uses the HDCP flag to limit how many screens are being shown the same image? Does anybody have any practical experience with trying to split/share the HDMI output from something like the HR21 receiver to mutliple HDTV displays?
Does NFL ST use HDCP to limit number of screens?
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I do not know but it wouldn't surprise me. I would think they do to limit a bar/restaurant owner from doing the same thing.
You can split the HDMI with a splitter for $99 but that's not "multiple" screens, only 2. Nothing to do with the flag though. You could also split the component and have 4. How many do you need?
Well, I'm working on a scenario for a sports bar with 30 screens. I have no problem building a system to distribute 10 DTV HR21 receivers via HDMI to 30 screens, with the ability to show anything anywhere, in any imaginable combination. What I have in mind is to use HDMI and IR over IP transmitter/receivers (NOT baluns!) connected to a 48 port Cisco Catalyst 2960 Managed Ethernet switch. We just want to make sure there are no "gotchas" in the HDCP aspect of the NFL Sunday Ticket broadcast.
Does anybody have any idea who to contact at DTV to get a definitive answer?
I don't think the HDCP spec will allow you to split it that many times. Why not use the component and use a matrix? That's what stores like best buy and walmart do for their TV walls, one HD receiver for their feed and dump it out into component and distribute it using amps and matricies. You'd probably get out cheaper than all of that cisco gear.
I confirmed with DirecTV that no HDCP is used on NFL. HDCP is only used on PPV movies at this time.
That said, content providers always rule these things. If the NFL decided they wanted HDCP, it could happen in the future. Hopefully not, but it is possible.
That said, content providers always rule these things. If the NFL decided they wanted HDCP, it could happen in the future. Hopefully not, but it is possible.
If he needs 30 screens, he could always get a 4 way splitter, then cascade four 8 way splitters off of that.
Do you mean special broadcast flags? Because HDCP is always used, HDCP is the encryption spec between the receiver and display device over HDMI. The question is, what kind of limit on the number of displays is applied by the receiver, not any of the broadcast flags. I think it's gonna be hard to find someone that can give an answer to that, and it's probably going to be a software engineer. Maybe this would be a good question to go up the CE chain of communication
HDCP keeps track of how many times a signal is split and how many displays are connected, so if there is a limit in the receiver of how many displays can be connected via HDMI, you can't do that.
Best way to describe DirecTV's position now is that HDCP is not currently used to enforce any limitiations other than PPV movie channels.
Hope that explains it better.
I've found independent verification of this (no HDCP attached screens limits for DirecTV) in a report published by Crestron.
Those simple splitters won't cut the mustard, as the owner wants a full matrix implementation, where any of the 30 HDTV screens can be showing and listening to any of the "up to 10 at a time" NFL Sunday Ticket games.
Here is a schematic of the solution we are proposing:
There are only 5 HDMI over IP Receivers in the drawing to keep it relatively clean, but that Managed Switch can easily support up to 38 attached HDMI over IP Receivers. Any screen can instantly be switched between any of the HDMI over IP Transmitters attached to the network. If they need more Receivers or Transmitters, they simply bridge the first Managed switch to a second switch that supports IEEE 802.1Q VLAN protocol.
Here is a link to the Crestron document listing the number of HDCP Keys supported by various HDMI devices:
http://www.crestron.com/downloads/pdf/misc/third_party_hdcp_limits.pdf
Those simple splitters won't cut the mustard, as the owner wants a full matrix implementation, where any of the 30 HDTV screens can be showing and listening to any of the "up to 10 at a time" NFL Sunday Ticket games.
Here is a schematic of the solution we are proposing:
There are only 5 HDMI over IP Receivers in the drawing to keep it relatively clean, but that Managed Switch can easily support up to 38 attached HDMI over IP Receivers. Any screen can instantly be switched between any of the HDMI over IP Transmitters attached to the network. If they need more Receivers or Transmitters, they simply bridge the first Managed switch to a second switch that supports IEEE 802.1Q VLAN protocol.
A couple of questions. It says control via PC interface (crestron optional) Does this mean it's optional to use a pc to control the whole thing or the crestron brand is optional? Also it says If they need more Receivers or Transmitters, they simply bridge the first Managed switch to a second switch that supports IEEE 802.1Q VLAN protocol. Does that mean if they need more than 10 or more than 38?
Good questions, thank you for asking.
All of the control options are "optional". You can use any PC/MAC/Linux device to access the HTTP interface on a Managed Switch (it does NOT have to be a Cisco switch), OR you can use a stand alone controller like Crestron, AMX, C4, etc..., OR you can use a computer connected to the switches RS232 port to roll your own GUI. Some Managed switches also support a TELNET interface for IP based control. It doesn't really matter which control option you choose, you just have to choose one or more to do the VLAN management.
It means if they need more devices then will fit in the first Managed switch. This HDMI over IP system is totally scaleable. With the example 48 port switch in the schematic you can have any possible permutation from 1 TX and 47 RX devices to 47 TX and 1 RX device. The same is true for any other size Managed Switch (must support VLAN and IGMP protocols), you can mix/match the HDMI over IP Transmitters and Receivers as needed to "right-size" the Matrix switch.
I really appreciate the help you guys provided on finding out if DTV is limiting HDCP Keys on the receivers. Needless to say, the normal DTV support channels were not very responsive to such an off the wall request for information.
Holy crap. 
At least you're doing it right. Most restaurants/bars I ever see have plenty of widescreen TVs all over the place, all of them showing one blurry stretched 4x3 channel or another. I can count the number of times I've seen high definition content in a commercial establishment on one finger.
I would love to visit this place after you're done with it.
At least you're doing it right. Most restaurants/bars I ever see have plenty of widescreen TVs all over the place, all of them showing one blurry stretched 4x3 channel or another. I can count the number of times I've seen high definition content in a commercial establishment on one finger.
I would love to visit this place after you're done with it.
That is definitely a top notch setup. It won't be cheap but, it's fabulous. I wonder what DTV charges a bar for 10 Rec. and a commercial Sunday Ticket sub? That place should be pretty popular when word of that setup gets around.
Pepper, I hear ya. I've seen some big screens that are so dark they look pathetic. What a waste of money.
Pepper, I hear ya. I've seen some big screens that are so dark they look pathetic. What a waste of money.
Nded, what was a requirement for IGMP support? As I see the setup, there is no outside connection(s).
That information is publicly available from the DirecTV website. You can find all the details in the PDF at http://www.directv.com/images/Direc..._and_Restaurants_Public_Viewing_Paperwork.pdf . The pricing is not based on the number of receivers, it's based on the firecode approved seating capacity of the establishment. Here are some of the posted prices for automatically renewed bars/restaurants:
Seats Season Fee
1-50 $945.99
51-100 $1,049.97
101-200 $2,519.97
201-350 $3,464.97
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5,001-10,000 $39,899.97
10,001+ $48,089.97
1-50 $945.99
51-100 $1,049.97
101-200 $2,519.97
201-350 $3,464.97
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5,001-10,000 $39,899.97
10,001+ $48,089.97
The HTTP server in the HDMI over IP Transmitters uses IGMP to manage client membership of the multi-cast. This makes it easier for new clients (HDMI over IP Receivers) to instantly join an in progress audio/video stream.
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