Dsr 410 or let my 922 remap?

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surfdevil83

SatelliteGuys Family
Nov 24, 2007
76
0
Toronto
All the talk about the shut down in the new year makes me wonder if I should try to find a dsr 410 to replace my 922. In Canada I spent years hunting for a 922 I could afford. From what I gather, doing a master reset on A1(aka w5) will remove other sat positions and remove the generics. Ok that sounds terrible but really unless I'm using the 922 for a slaved fta receiver and can't sub too those other sats anyway do I need them? A vbox could do the same thing for a fta setup. The generic sats are fun to play with for sure, however After hours or hunting both c and ku generic channels I have found very very little to make me miss them a whole lot.
I guess i'm looking for some guided advice from other forum members with more knowledge about the potential of my 922 in it's current state before I remap on A1.
Finding a dsr 410 in canada is near impossible so ebay might be my only option.
 

tvropro

On Vacation
Mar 9, 2007
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The latest I heard is until they shut off the current 4dtv datastream after 12/31 Motorola is not going to turn on the 410's stream for the 4D. They said that that will be much easier than trying to get it up now. Now this is just me guessing but they will probably remove W5 and replace it with AI. This may also allow us to keep our generic maps and other satellites. I hope Mike is on Sat talk this week and can update us.
 

jaray

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 9, 2010
232
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Northern Ontario, Canada
surfdevil83, as far as finding a 410 in Canada (one that you can sub) it won't happen. Right now, the 410's are only coming from Skyvision in MN and those are the only ones they'll sub. I think there's hope that'll change but I doubt it.
I'm sure you know whats required to get your hands on one.
 

tvropro

On Vacation
Mar 9, 2007
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Any 410 can be used if the account is clear. There is a $40.00 charge to get it in the system tough. I think 410's are all over Canada because of Starchoice, I may be wrong.
 

jaray

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 9, 2010
232
0
Northern Ontario, Canada
Last I read somewhere here, and I believe Mike Kohl even mentioned it on Sattalk that it turned out to be a logistics nightmare to confirm the history, account status and get them moved off of another provider and that they would only activate they're own.
I think many people have asked this same question and in the end decided it wasn't worth the chance of buying one.

If he cares to comment, I'll leave it to him. Its funny, because the 410 I bought from Skyvision even has an Industry Canada sticker right on it...so I know it came from the Canadian market.
 

jaray

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 9, 2010
232
0
Northern Ontario, Canada
I know alot of the really small remote first nation communities we work with way up north have they're own small cable networks and there are plenty of DSR-410s in those racks as well as others.
 

stargaze

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 14, 2010
916
56
Out there somewhere
This may also allow us to keep our generic maps and other satellites.

This is the "wildcard" that no-one can be absolutely sure of.
Common sense says if Motorola is done and they shut off the data stream for the channel maps then no more generic satellites. If they kept them in the receiver it could prove more of a hassle as they may be obligated to keep them updated and this is not going to happen.

I seriously doubt the generics sat icons would be left in the receiver after the shutdown, (that is if you have to do a master reset on W5 with the 920 & 922 receivers to be able to reset the receiver to the W5 EMM). They are not in the W5 data-stream at this time! I have reported this in another thread at great length.

Since the last tests were completed and the AI icon appeared the monthly update "hits" have been turned on for the 920 & 922 receivers on W5. (At least here they have been. Used to have to go to G1 or G0 every month to get the monthly update but now the receivers are taking that update from W5).

To answer the original question if someone wanted the 922 or 920 receiver only to purchase programming and could care less about the dish moving capabilities or the generic icons then by all means there is more benefit to them to sub to the W5 packages as soon as it becomes available after Dec 31.

For most of the other 922 & 920 users, who use the 4d receiver to move their BUD's, it may not be worthwhile to jump at this until it is proven their investment has not been made useless in the blink of an eye, since many of the main satellite icons could (as it stands now), be gone in the receiver and the end user can not at this time just add them in themselves.

My 920 & 922 receivers are used as dish movers and are worth more for FTA surfing (not so much for DCII fta, but there is so much out there in DVB fta).
 

Corrado

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 2, 2007
2,402
284
Hudson Valley Region, NY
There are several variations of the 410. Some have letters after the 410 like MN or DS. Most of the receivers all appear pretty much the same at first glance. Most likely with various software for the intended program provider.

I talked with SRL about some of mine and the unit IDs are outside of what can be authorized without this stupid $40 fee. Better off buying a used 4D receiver in my opinion. Perhaps if they really are interested in selling programming someone will rethink this. It's a 10+ year old box.

When the dust settles on this I'll decide. If this new mapping or software whatever is going to take away functionality of my 922 or 905 forever, I would rather take my chances on another cheap old 920 or something, change the battery and use that for subbing. Keeping my current units for generic FTA purposes while that lasts.
 

truckracer

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 17, 2004
4,338
351
Charleston wv
I think (my opinion) that regular DC2 will go away and combo mode and 8psk will soon be the norm making doorstops out of the 4d's anyway.

Fta receivers with 8psk are the future for the big dish. Hopefully vboxes will improve their accuracy
 

tvropro

On Vacation
Mar 9, 2007
6,872
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This is the "wildcard" that no-one can be absolutely sure of.
Common sense says if Motorola is done and they shut off the data stream for the channel maps then no more generic satellites. If they kept them in the receiver it could prove more of a hassle as they may be obligated to keep them updated and this is not going to happen.

I seriously doubt the generics sat icons would be left in the receiver after the shutdown, (that is if you have to do a master reset on W5 with the 920 & 922 receivers to be able to reset the receiver to the W5 EMM). They are not in the W5 data-stream at this time! I have reported this in another thread at great length.

Since the last tests were completed and the AI icon appeared the monthly update "hits" have been turned on for the 920 & 922 receivers on W5. (At least here they have been. Used to have to go to G1 or G0 every month to get the monthly update but now the receivers are taking that update from W5).

To answer the original question if someone wanted the 922 or 920 receiver only to purchase programming and could care less about the dish moving capabilities or the generic icons then by all means there is more benefit to them to sub to the W5 packages as soon as it becomes available after Dec 31.

For most of the other 922 & 920 users, who use the 4d receiver to move their BUD's, it may not be worthwhile to jump at this until it is proven their investment has not been made useless in the blink of an eye, since many of the main satellite icons could (as it stands now), be gone in the receiver and the end user can not at this time just add them in themselves.

My 920 & 922 receivers are used as dish movers and are worth more for FTA surfing (not so much for DCII fta, but there is so much out there in DVB fta).

I see Motorola looking for a simple solution to activate AI. That is why they are waiting till after the 4D is turned off. Right now W5 and AI in the receiver at the same time causes many issues when tried to run on 2 data steams according to Mike Kohl. It's probably TDT overflow. If Motorola can gracefully replace W5 with AI it's probably a easy solution. They technically could piggyback the satellite maps in the steam at that time. This is what I'm hoping for. Myself I would opt for my 922 to be used as a FTA receiver over a sub box since I'm now married to DirecTv anyway. We will have to see what happens.

We need updates Mike :)
 

Davage

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 26, 2005
1,063
0
Southwestern Ontario
Forgive me if it has already been addressed here, but I have a question.

Will a Starchoice model 921 receiver with generics tune in the US 4DTV channels that are in FP/ZK mode, or will it only tune in the Canadian Starchoice channels?

I know that I've got an opportunity to get a Starchoice model 921 receiver at a pretty cheap price. That could be my dish mover, and then I could do the factory reset on my model 922 after January 1 to convert it to a W5 only receiver.

The Starchoice model 921 receiver as far as I can tell is identical to the 922, except it normally is only authorized for Starchoice (Shaw Direct) programming.

I would really like to have the generics available after January 1 to tune into any channels that may slip into FP mode now and again. If the Starchoice unit will do that, then making the decision to let my 922 potentially lose the generics is an easy one. I'd let the 922 lose the generics and then use the 921 as my dish mover and generic tuner to catch the FP programs.
 

stargaze

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 14, 2010
916
56
Out there somewhere
I see Motorola looking for a simple solution to activate AI. That is why they are waiting till after the 4D is turned off. Right now W5 and AI in the receiver at the same time causes many issues when tried to run on 2 data steams according to Mike Kohl. It's probably TDT overflow. If Motorola can gracefully replace W5 with AI it's probably a easy solution. They technically could piggyback the satellite maps in the steam at that time. This is what I'm hoping for. Myself I would opt for my 922 to be used as a FTA receiver over a sub box since I'm now married to DirecTv anyway. We will have to see what happens.

We need updates Mike :)
AI was what motorola put in there to run their tests with a few channels.
I do not think it is a permanent icon for receiving programming from W5.
The issues Mike was speaking about was the conflict of the 2 different data streams (Motorola's vs HITS) causing the TDT overflow. This is a non-issue when Motorola turns off their data stream on Dec 31st.
Even with the other posts of when I took a 921 receiver and did a master reset on W5 pretty much sums up what Mike Kohl said. Only a few older named satellites will be in the receiver and no generic satellite icons with all those pre-programmed in frequencies. Unless Motorola comes out and says differently consider those to be gone if you sub to the W5 packages after December 31st with the 920 & 922 receivers.

After Dec 31, those wanting to receive programming from W5 will need to tune to W5 and do a master reset on their 920 & 922 receivers. The new EMM provider code and channel maps from HITS will then take over in the receiver.
Once this happens the channel maps you were used to getting from either G0 or G1 will all the generic icons and all the different satellite icons will no longer be there. The same will apply if one does a master reset after the channel map data stream is turned off on G0 & G1 even if they are not subbed to programming on W5.
Motorola has not come out and said they will continue to keep the channel map data stream up there and there is no purpose for them to do so.
Their response is after December 31st they are done!
This is why anyone using the 4dtv receiver as a dish mover (including myself), needs to be aware and prepare to purchase another dish mover that will work properly.

I figure that since I had 13 years of service from my 920 well that's not bad.
The 922 has been in service here moving another bud for close to 9 years.
If they can be re-programmed for the correct satellites then as a dish mover it may well last several more.
 

tvropro

On Vacation
Mar 9, 2007
6,872
0
Is it possible for Comcast to add the 4DTV satellite tiles to the HITS datastream on W5 after 12/31? I think that is what we need Mike to look into. It cannot hurt to ask. If not my days of using the 4D as a subscription receiver of any kind is over. I will ride out my current maps till for FP till it dies.

Brings up one other thing. Mike mentioned that things like Nebraska public tv will be available after 12/31. If they kill the mapping for that bird with only an AI clone, that and the mapped in DC FTA's will be toast too if you sub. Lot's of questions need to be asked and answered.
 

tvropro

On Vacation
Mar 9, 2007
6,872
0
4096 is the 4DTV stream. No clue to the second 40, my Starchoice 405 has something after also not by it now so I can't post it.
 

johnnynobody

Star Trek fan
Aug 2, 2009
6,763
1,244
USA
Is it possible for Comcast to add the 4DTV satellite tiles to the HITS datastream on W5 after 12/31? I think that is what we need Mike to look into. It cannot hurt to ask. If not my days of using the 4D as a subscription receiver of any kind is over. I will ride out my current maps till for FP till it dies.

Did you get an answer about this yet?

Brings up one other thing. Mike mentioned that things like Nebraska public tv will be available after 12/31. If they kill the mapping for that bird with only an AI clone, that and the mapped in DC FTA's will be toast too if you sub. Lot's of questions need to be asked and answered.

Maybe he meant that it'll be on FTA DVB instead of DCII?
 

stargaze

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 14, 2010
916
56
Out there somewhere
Forgive me if it has already been addressed here, but I have a question.

Will a Starchoice model 921 receiver with generics tune in the US 4DTV channels that are in FP/ZK mode, or will it only tune in the Canadian Starchoice channels?

I know that I've got an opportunity to get a Starchoice model 921 receiver at a pretty cheap price. That could be my dish mover, and then I could do the factory reset on my model 922 after January 1 to convert it to a W5 only receiver.

The Starchoice model 921 receiver as far as I can tell is identical to the 922, except it normally is only authorized for Starchoice (Shaw Direct) programming.

I would really like to have the generics available after January 1 to tune into any channels that may slip into FP mode now and again. If the Starchoice unit will do that, then making the decision to let my 922 potentially lose the generics is an easy one. I'd let the 922 lose the generics and then use the 921 as my dish mover and generic tuner to catch the FP programs.

See the message here...
http://www.satelliteguys.us/4dtv-discussion/221526-channel-mapping-w5-time.html
 
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