East, West... Does it matter?

T

tennisnut

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I need some insight into how Dish assigns channels to it's satellite orbitals and what the future should look like. For almost a year we've seen HD channels dropping off of our program guide due to uplink changes, and I didn't have time to analyze the potential solutions until now.

In over 10 years we've never been able to receive the complete western arc or complete eastern arc due to the position trees behind our house, and I can't legally trim them. I've been able to get all the channels and HD we want by using 110 & 119 orbitals on one dish and flipping back and forth between the 61.5 and 72.7 orbitals on a second dish, but i'm getting tired of second guessing the dish heads [sic] who decide those channel assignments.

I think that by making some adjustments with our two dishes it's feasible to get the three eastern arc orbitals or possibly the three western arc orbitals. If I can settle on one arc or the other, will that put an end to this folly of orbital juggling? We live in the Houston, TX market. Should I care whether we use the eastern vs. western arc? James Long's current channel lists and lots of data manipulation indicate that we would receive almost the identical channels and HD channels with either one. Can I trust Dish not to screw that up if I settle on one arc?

P.S. It sure was easier to analyze these problems with "The List" than with the format James uses for his "Uplink Activity Center?" Thank goodness James produces it, but has anybody found a better way than HTML editing, copy/paste, and Excel data manipulation to tabulate which orbital combinations carry which channels?
 
pattykay

pattykay

formerly crodrules
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In over 10 years we've never been able to receive the complete western arc or complete eastern arc due to the position trees behind our house, and I can't legally trim them. I've been able to get all the channels and HD we want by using 110 & 119 orbitals on one dish and flipping back and forth between the 61.5 and 72.7 orbitals on a second dish, but i'm getting tired of second guessing the dish heads [sic] who decide those channel assignments.
If you have signals now from 110, 119, 61.5, and 72.7, why don't you just combine all of those with a DPP44 switch? 61.5 and 72.7 would give you everything you need from Eastern Arc, plus 110 and 119 would give you standard-def feeds of some channels that would normally require 77 for the SD feed on Eastern Arc, and that would also give you some SD feeds (from Western Arc) of channels that are not broadcast in SD at all on Eastern Arc. The SD feeds can come in handy if rain knocks out the signal from the HD feeds.
 
JSheridan

JSheridan

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If you have signals now from 110, 119, 61.5, and 72.7, why don't you just combine all of those with a DPP44 switch? 61.5 and 72.7 would give you everything you need from Eastern Arc, plus 110 and 119 would give you standard-def feeds of some channels that would normally require 77 for the SD feed on Eastern Arc, and that would also give you some SD feeds (from Western Arc) of channels that are not broadcast in SD at all on Eastern Arc. The SD feeds can come in handy if rain knocks out the signal from the HD feeds.

I've tried exactly that satellite combination before and the Hoppers got very confused and started doing strange things when the arcs were combined like that.
 
JSheridan

JSheridan

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I need some insight into how Dish assigns channels to it's satellite orbitals and what the future should look like. For almost a year we've seen HD channels dropping off of our program guide due to uplink changes, and I didn't have time to analyze the potential solutions until now.

In over 10 years we've never been able to receive the complete western arc or complete eastern arc due to the position trees behind our house, and I can't legally trim them. I've been able to get all the channels and HD we want by using 110 & 119 orbitals on one dish and flipping back and forth between the 61.5 and 72.7 orbitals on a second dish, but i'm getting tired of second guessing the dish heads [sic] who decide those channel assignments.

I think that by making some adjustments with our two dishes it's feasible to get the three eastern arc orbitals or possibly the three western arc orbitals. If I can settle on one arc or the other, will that put an end to this folly of orbital juggling? We live in the Houston, TX market. Should I care whether we use the eastern vs. western arc? James Long's current channel lists and lots of data manipulation indicate that we would receive almost the identical channels and HD channels with either one. Can I trust Dish not to screw that up if I settle on one arc?

P.S. It sure was easier to analyze these problems with "The List" than with the format James uses for his "Uplink Activity Center?" Thank goodness James produces it, but has anybody found a better way than HTML editing, copy/paste, and Excel data manipulation to tabulate which orbital combinations carry which channels?

The only satellites you need to have all the channels on the eastern arc are 61.5 and 72. 77 is not necessary unless your locals are there.
 
pattykay

pattykay

formerly crodrules
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I've tried exactly that satellite combination before and the Hoppers got very confused and started doing strange things when the arcs were combined like that.
True, but tennisnut never mentioned a Hopper, or subscribing to locals for that matter, so I thought the mixed-arc setup might work.
 
JSheridan

JSheridan

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True, but tennisnut never mentioned a Hopper, or subscribing to locals for that matter, so I thought the mixed-arc setup might work.

It made my 722K go crazy back in the day too. I don't think any Dish receiver performs correctly with a complete mixed arc set-up. I think the problem is if you have both 119 and 72 in the mix. They're the base satellites for each arc and if you have both of them then you'll probably have confused receivers. :)
 
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tennisnut

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Sorry. I should have mentioned that we have two HWS and one old Joey. None of our locals are on 77 or 129. I don't know about the hopper confusion issue, but based upon past history, the four orbitals proposed would theoretically work. I'm just worried that yet another nonstandard configuration will someday turn out to be the wrong combination of orbitals. I was hoping to hear that sticking with either the eastern arc or western arc would be bulletproof, if I can get multiple dishes to see all three orbitals. Still a big if.
 
pattykay

pattykay

formerly crodrules
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Sorry. I should have mentioned that we have two HWS and one old Joey. None of our locals are on 77 or 129. I don't know about the hopper confusion issue, but based upon past history, the four orbitals proposed would theoretically work. I'm just worried that yet another nonstandard configuration will someday turn out to be the wrong combination of orbitals. I was hoping to hear that sticking with either the eastern arc or western arc would be bulletproof, if I can get multiple dishes to see all three orbitals. Still a big if.
Which type of dish are you using now? Is it a 1000.2? If so, I have a hybrid LNB for Eastern Arc (61.5, 72.7) that I am not using. That should give you all of the HD channels. Let me know if you are interested.
 
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tennisnut

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Which type of dish are you using now? Is it a 1000.2? If so, I have a hybrid LNB for Eastern Arc (61.5, 72.7) that I am not using. That should give you all of the HD channels. Let me know if you are interested.
Thanks, but (1) I'm ignorant on this hardware stuff, and (2) we don't own the equipment. All I know from the diagnostics page is that we have a duo node with a DPP1K.2 switch, and from looking at the dishes the one pointing at 72.7 is a 500 (don't see a + anywhere), and the one pointing at 110 and 119 is a Dish HD with dp plus LNB. I didn't see any references to a 1000.2. I assume that adding a 4th orbital would require replacing the Dish 500, LNB, and switch. Is that correct?
 
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tennisnut

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QFT: All you need are 61.5 & 72.. Now if your locals are only on Western Arc -AND- you subscribe to them- get an OTA antenna if you can.


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Really!?? I'll have to check out that configuration to see whether we would be missing something important with the current assignments. Our locals, including SD, are on only 61.5 and 110. HOWEVER, what's to keep the dish heads from moving the locals or other channels to 77?
 
pattykay

pattykay

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Thanks, but (1) I'm ignorant on this hardware stuff, and (2) we don't own the equipment. All I know from the diagnostics page is that we have a duo node with a DPP1K.2 switch, and from looking at the dishes the one pointing at 72.7 is a 500 (don't see a + anywhere), and the one pointing at 110 and 119 is a Dish HD with dp plus LNB. I didn't see any references to a 1000.2. I assume that adding a 4th orbital would require replacing the Dish 500, LNB, and switch. Is that correct?
The 1K.2 listed on the diagnostics page is your 1000.2 dish. It is the one pointed at Western Arc for 110 and 119. My suggestion was to move that dish to where your 500 currently is, and switch to an Eastern Arc LNB on that dish instead. The spare LNB that I happen to have is a Hybrid, which may require you to switch to Hubs, instead of the duo node you have now. JSheridan would know for sure. Dish also makes a DPP LNB for the 1000.2 for Eastern Arc, if you would rather not fool with Hybrid. The Hybrid LNB would help future-proof you if you ever want to upgrade to a Hopper 3, though.
 
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tennisnut

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The 1K.2 listed on the diagnostics page is your 1000.2 dish. It is the one pointed at Western Arc for 110 and 119. My suggestion was to move that dish to where your 500 currently is, and switch to an Eastern Arc LNB on that dish instead. The spare LNB that I happen to have is a Hybrid, which may require you to switch to Hubs, instead of the duo node you have now. JSheridan would know for sure. Dish also makes a DPP LNB for the 1000.2 for Eastern Arc, if you would rather not fool with Hybrid. The Hybrid LNB would help future-proof you if you ever want to upgrade to a Hopper 3, though.
Thanks, crodrules. I had been thinking something similar but not as long range yet. I was hoping that the tech could position the 1000.2 and 500 to catch all three on the eastern arc. Pretty sure that can be done. Upgrading to a Hopper 3 has been on my mind, since we have a 4K set. However, I don't want to sign another contract if that configuration has no longevity. Asking that question a different way than I did, do you believe that Dish will continue to serve the Houston market with all of the locals and AT250 channels on the eastern arc?
 
JSheridan

JSheridan

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The 1K.2 listed on the diagnostics page is your 1000.2 dish. It is the one pointed at Western Arc for 110 and 119. My suggestion was to move that dish to where your 500 currently is, and switch to an Eastern Arc LNB on that dish instead. The spare LNB that I happen to have is a Hybrid, which may require you to switch to Hubs, instead of the duo node you have now. JSheridan would know for sure. Dish also makes a DPP LNB for the 1000.2 for Eastern Arc, if you would rather not fool with Hybrid. The Hybrid LNB would help future-proof you if you ever want to upgrade to a Hopper 3, though.

Yes, with Hybrid you have to use hubs and not nodes.
 
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JSheridan

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Thanks, crodrules. I had been thinking something similar but not as long range yet. I was hoping that the tech could position the 1000.2 and 500 to catch all three on the eastern arc. Pretty sure that can be done. Upgrading to a Hopper 3 has been on my mind, since we have a 4K set. However, I don't want to sign another contract if that configuration has no longevity. Asking that question a different way than I did, do you believe that Dish will continue to serve the Houston market with all of the locals and AT250 channels on the eastern arc?

Once again, you don't need 77 for eastern arc. All the channels for eastern arc are on 61.5 and 72. There's no predicting what Dish will do but there are currently millions of customers with that configuration so any major changes would have be done over a very long term.
 
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Really!?? I'll have to check out that configuration to see whether we would be missing something important with the current assignments. Our locals, including SD, are on only 61.5 and 110. HOWEVER, what's to keep the dish heads from moving the locals or other channels to 77?
If such a change occurred. Dish WILL come out and fix everything for you so it all works, but I sincerely doubt such a change would happen. but as stated by an earlier poster, you should do fine with an EA Arc of 61.5 and 72. take it easy it's going to work out; this is an easier solution then you may have feared. you're currently mixed Arc seems to be the problem. getting you on to the proper Eastern Arc 61.5 and 72 should solve all your problems. or are you saying that you have trees in the way and that you cannot clearly see 61.5 and 72? perhaps that's why you have your mixed Arc.
 
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pattykay

pattykay

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If such a change occurred. Dish WILL come out and fix everything for you so it all works, but I sincerely doubt such a change would happen. but as stated by an earlier poster, you should do fine with an EA Arc of 61.5 and 72. take it easy it's going to work out; this is an easier solution then you may have feared. you're currently mixed Arc seems to be the problem. getting you on to the proper Eastern Arc 61.5 and 72 should solve all your problems. or are you saying that you have trees in the way and that you cannot clearly see 61.5 and 72? perhaps that's why you have your mixed Arc.
It sounds to me like the Dish 500 is already aimed for both 61.5 and 72.7, but they are running it through the input on the 1000.2 LNB, which is why they only get one EA satellite at a time, depending on which LNB from the Dish 500 is hooked up. Adding a switch to the Dish 500, and using only that dish, would probably solve the problem. I still recommend using a proper EA dish, though, just to make sure they get it peaked for the best signal possible from both satellite locations.
 
navychop

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Dish has moved stuff OFF 77. It is very unlikely they will move anything back. It’s not their slot, it’s rented.

I have a triple head LNB and two HWSes. There is nothing of interest to me on 77.


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Brussam

Brussam

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I can't remember which city I was trying to use for Locals but the HD Locals were on satellite 77 which is a serious problem when using a EA Hybrid LNBF which doesn't get satellite 77.
 
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