Echostar 6 to be moved to 72.7wl

mdonnelly

mdonnelly

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Echostar has filed a request with the FCC to move E6 to 72.7wl. This is a change in plans from earlier this year, when they had planned to move E6 to 77wl.

See here.
 
mike123abc

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Well it looks like the original plan was AMC-14 at 61.5, E3 at 72.7 and E6 at 77. But, since AMC-14 did not make it, the fallback is E6 at 72.7. At 77 there would have been interference battles that Dish probably did not want to fight right now, especially since they are short on satellites.

They must really want to be sure E11 gets up safe. They are not going to have any spares and E5 will be running on fumes soon.
 
TheKrell

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Well it looks like the original plan was AMC-14 at 61.5, E3 at 72.7 and E6 at 77. But, since AMC-14 did not make it, the fallback is E6 at 72.7. At 77 there would have been interference battles that Dish probably did not want to fight right now, especially since they are short on satellites.
:up That makes a whole lot of sense; I'll bet you're right. They could even use E4 at 77 for some locals to southern states. How many transponders does E4 have these days?

They must really want to be sure E11 gets up safe. They are not going to have any spares and E5 will be running on fumes soon.
No kidding.
 
nelson61

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They must really want to be sure E11 gets up safe. They are not going to have any spares and E5 will be running on fumes soon.


And, the latest filings report they lost two more solar panels on E5 in the first quarter 08 (about 12 gone now). So they have a wobbling E5 running out of fuel, lost AMC14, and the filing say that if E10 pukes out, they have no backup and will loose a a major portion of their coverage. Stick in the grounding of the Proton M launchers to replace E5 with Ceil 2 and the abandonment of CMB Star ( Echo 13) contract in April with a filed potential hit of 100 million and you can see they must be having nightmares (a cold sweat at the very least).. I can see them whistling as they walk past the graveyard.
 
kstuart

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You can't really have a backup for E*10, because it has so many more spot beams than any other satellite.

In fact, none of the spares have spot beams, so a complete failure of E*10, E*7 or Rainbow1 would be a huge blow to Dish Network.

PS Since it is not far away, it would make sense to move E*4 to 61.5 to cover the 4 transponders (assuming that it has 4 or close to 4 working).
 
mike123abc

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You can't really have a backup for E*10, because it has so many more spot beams than any other satellite.

In fact, none of the spares have spot beams, so a complete failure of E*10, E*7 or Rainbow1 would be a huge blow to Dish Network.

PS Since it is not far away, it would make sense to move E*4 to 61.5 to cover the 4 transponders (assuming that it has 4 or close to 4 working).

They still have E8. It of course only has 1/4 the spot beam capacity of E10, but it can cover 100% of E7.
 
nelson61

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You can't really have a backup for E*10, because it has so many more spot beams than any other satellite.

I guess they would not need one if they were willing to loose a major portion of their market if it fails and wait two years for a replacement. Kiss those customers goodby. They identify two major problems in their current filings - E5 and E10. You can bet your boots they are working as fast as possible to replace E5 and get a backup satellite for E10.
 
kstuart

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They still have E8. It of course only has 1/4 the spot beam capacity of E10, but it can cover 100% of E7.

If they had to do that, then millions of their customers would lose the 4 biggest channels - ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX.

Dish Network would have to get Congress to pass an emergency authorization for them to provide Distant Networks to all those customers. Given the outcry from competitors, and Dish's history with Distant Networks, that would be unlikely to pass, and Dish would take billions in losses, as people flee to competitors.

The only other option would be to upgrade all customers to MPEG4, which also would cost billions, and would take too much time for many customers.

So, back before spot beams, EchoStar really did have backup, but since the launch of E*10, that has become next to impossible.
 
mike123abc

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I agree Dish is betting the company now that they will not have any failures.
 
nelson61

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The new Ciel 2 will help big time with it's ability to cover something like 100-130 spots in the US.
 
R

rocatman

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The E-4 satellite can't help E-3 at 61.5 W because the limited number of TPs it can provide are not the same ones that E-3 can not provide. Dish also has E-14 being built and it is scheduled to launch in the latter half of 2009. I believe it was mentioned in a financial report that E-14 was another big spotbeam satellite scheduled to go to 119 W. By the way the coverage of E-6 at 72.7 W is very good except for the very northern sections of Maine and the very southern tips of Florida and Texas. See the FCC website address below for the predicted downlink map. It may not make a difference if one needs a Dish 1000 to get both 61.5 W and 72.7 W for the Eastern Arc.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=-147607
 
R

rocatman

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E-6 couldn't help that much if E-10 failed completely since it is not a spotbeam satellite so Dish has been in this "hoping there is no major satellite failure" mode for awhile even before E-10 was launched, its the nature of the business.

It was reported that Ciel-2 will have 145 spotbeam Tps for use in the U.S. It was reported back when the satellite construction contract was announced that Ciel-2 would have up to 9 times TP reuse so if you do the math 16 x 9 = 144. I use 16 since that is the number of TPs that Dish is guaranteed to have at 129 W on Ciel-2.
 
mike123abc

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It was reported that Ciel-2 will have 145 spotbeam Tps for use in the U.S. It was reported back when the satellite construction contract was announced that Ciel-2 would have up to 9 times TP reuse so if you do the math 16 x 9 = 144. I use 16 since that is the number of TPs that Dish is guaranteed to have at 129 W on Ciel-2.

It is also possible that Dish will have a lot more than 16 since the ones in spot could be used in Canada via spots or a Canada wide beam. So, the spot TPs might not even count against the 16 TPs for Dish.
 
RandallA

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"the latest filings report they lost two more solar panels on E5 in the first quarter 08 (about 12 gone now). "

Whoa! I didn't know E5 had more failures. I hope they can replace E5 before it dies completely.
 
R

rocatman

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I would not doubt that Dish gets use of more than 16 TPs at 129 W but the big limitation for Ciel-2 to provide both spotbeam and national TPs in the U.S. is the power capabilities of the satellite. Dish may use 16 TPs for spotbeams and get use of another 15 (one TP will be held for the Canadian government) but Dish needs another satellite at 129 W to use those other 15 TPs. This is based on the power numbers provided in various press releases on Ciel-2 and there is no way it could do 145 spotbeams and additional national TPs. My guess is that the E-8 satellite will be moved to 129 W after the E-11 satellite is launched and operational. The "Western Arc" could use the 129 W and 148 W slots with a D1000 dish as I have previously speculated in other posts.
 
P

photoman76

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Echostar 6 is moving East at 1.5 degrees per day. It is currently at 98.6 degrees West and should reach 72.7 degrees West in about 18 days.
 
Anole

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What sort of power level do you need for a transponder destined for spot beam service, versus one on Conus dispersion?

Lighting up a little 300? mile diameter circle can't take much power, if it's got a decent antenna.

Reason I ask, is mainly in calculating total bird power usage.
 
HDRoberts

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Echostar 6 is moving East at 1.5 degrees per day. It is currently at 98.6 degrees West and should reach 72.7 degrees West in about 18 days.

Odd, I think they would wait for E11 to make it. If it didn't, and the plan was to move E8 to 129, I would think E6 would have to head to 129, if E5 isn't going to hold out the remaining 9+ month for Ciel-2 to come on line.

So, whats the summary of Dish orbital locations (correct me if I'm wrong)?

61.5: E12 in good shape, E3 still in need of replacment after AMC14 failure. Is the recently announced E15 headed here?
72.7: E6 headed here. Any other plans?
77: I guess this is stuck with the E4 clunker for now. Maybe it will see E2. Or will E8 come here?
110: E10 in good shape, albeit with no backup plan, E11 coming in a few months replacing E8.
118.7: Internationals only in its future
119: E7 all by itself. E14 possibly coming with a spotbeam payload?
129: E5 on its last legs. Ciel2 coming next year. Maybe E8 on an interim basis?
148: With internationals headed to 118, this is the testing ground. E1 can't have much gas left. E2 seems headed for the EA, but I forget where.

So I see Dish has a moderate replacement plan (replacement for E5 and possibly E7 and E3 in the works, and I guess E7 as spare, assuming E14 is a complete E7 replacement). But not much of an bandwidth expansion plan. The implementation of spotbeams in the west should help out space on 129, and (eventually) regaining the lost 2 transponders at 61.5 will help a little, but not enough. Are they banking added capacity soley on MPEG4, or are there other plans in the works I don't see? Certainly nothing that matches Directv's use of Ka bandwidth at 99 and 103 with SPACEWAY 1 and 2, plus D10 and D11 to boost capacity, and that worries me as a Dish supporter.
 
FCom911

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I just got off the phone with a senior CSR support tech, she says the new push at Dish appears to be all MPG4, but the vast majority of clients at present are MPG2. We're talking about replacing millions of STBs. I just can't imagine how anyone can knock that many STBs out in a reasonable time frame and the capitol expenditures... but she said they are moving in that direction. Letters are going out very soon, she said. Wow...
 
iwc5893

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Odd, I think they would wait for E11 to make it. If it didn't, and the plan was to move E8 to 129, I would think E6 would have to head to 129, if E5 isn't going to hold out the remaining 9+ month for Ciel-2 to come on line.

So, whats the summary of Dish orbital locations (correct me if I'm wrong)?

61.5: E12 in good shape, E3 still in need of replacment after AMC14 failure. Is the recently announced E15 headed here?
72.7: E6 headed here. Any other plans?
77: I guess this is stuck with the E4 clunker for now. Maybe it will see E2. Or will E8 come here?
110: E10 in good shape, albeit with no backup plan, E11 coming in a few months replacing E8.
118.7: Internationals only in its future
119: E7 all by itself. E14 possibly coming with a spotbeam payload?
129: E5 on its last legs. Ciel2 coming next year. Maybe E8 on an interim basis?
148: With internationals headed to 118, this is the testing ground. E1 can't have much gas left. E2 seems headed for the EA, but I forget where.

So I see Dish has a moderate replacement plan (replacement for E5 and possibly E7 and E3 in the works, and I guess E7 as spare, assuming E14 is a complete E7 replacement). But not much of an bandwidth expansion plan. The implementation of spotbeams in the west should help out space on 129, and (eventually) regaining the lost 2 transponders at 61.5 will help a little, but not enough. Are they banking added capacity soley on MPEG4, or are there other plans in the works I don't see? Certainly nothing that matches Directv's use of Ka bandwidth at 99 and 103 with SPACEWAY 1 and 2, plus D10 and D11 to boost capacity, and that worries me as a Dish supporter.

Given that list, I'm curious as to how Dish can continue to add HD channels without compromising PQ - especially if you consider that several of those sats will be going to Eastern Arc in the future.
 

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