Echostar's Use of Rainbow-1 Satellite

[thxdan]

HI all,

Here's some info for the techies.

First, keep in mind that the FCC licenses use of the DBS frequency band based on 32 frequency slivers of the band. Each of these slivers is broadcast by an individual transponder on a satellite. Of all the 32 slivers available at the 61.5 orbital location, DISH Network holds a license for 15 transponders, Voom has 13, and Sky Angel (a religious-oriented DBS broadcaster) has 2. (2 are unused currently according to Lyngsat.) DISH Network and Sky Angel signals are both broadcast from the EchoStar III satellite -- Sky Angel pays EchoStar to uplink and distribute the signals on the same bird used for DISH Network. And Voom's 13 slivers are broadcast from Rainbow 1.

You can see all of this consolidated here:
Everything at 61.5 degrees: http://www.lyngsat.com/61west.html

Or, view it by satellite:
EchoStar III: http://www.lyngsat.com/echo3.html
Rainbow 1: http://www.lyngsat.com/rain1.html

Some have said that Echostar III is not receivable on the west coast. Many details suggest that that is true -- but not because their satellite is parked at 61.5, but because their satellite is:

-Old and Less Powerful: launched in 1997 versus Rainbow 1's launch in 2003

-Dying Slowly: SEC documents show that EchoStar III has suffered numerous technical failures

Documentation:
EchoStar says their satellite only has coverage for the "Central/Mountain Region to Eastern United States"
Source

(Whereas Voom's newer, more powerful satellite has coast-to-coast coverage, assuming you can see the 61.5 position from your property, which is definately harder out west.)

Finally, the numerous failures of EchoStar III are documented in SEC filings from November 2004:

During January 2004, a Traveling Wave Tube Amplifier (“TWTA”) pair on our EchoStar III satellite failed, resulting in a loss of service on one of our licensed transponders. An additional TWTA pair failed in March 2004. Including the seven TWTA pairs that malfunctioned in prior years, these anomalies have resulted in the failure of a total of 18 TWTAs on the satellite to date. While originally designed to operate a maximum of 32 transponders at any given time, the satellite was equipped with a total of 44 TWTAs to provide redundancy. EchoStar III can now operate a maximum of 26 transponders but due to redundancy switching limitations and specific channel authorizations, currently it can only operate on 18 of the 19 FCC authorized frequencies we own or lease at the 61.5 degree west orbital location. While we don’t expect a large number of TWTAs to fail in any year, it is likely that additional TWTA failures will occur from time to time in the future, and that those failures will further impact commercial operation of the satellite. We will continue to evaluate the performance of EchoStar III as new events or changes in circumstances become known.

Source (PDF)

Hope this helps fill in the details for why reception could be different for these two satellites, and for why this really helps EchoStar big time.

Sad to see Voom go...I've enjoyed my 6 weeks of being a subscriber.
-Dan

 

[graphiteRT]

Echostar 3 is an 8 year old satellite. Rainbow 1 less than 2 years old. Simple common sense says E* is buying more advanced hardware, not the least of which includes MPEG4 capability.

FWIW, I had a 61.5 dish for E* until June of last year, currently have Voom and live on the extreme west coast. It can be done but hilly terrain, large buildings, trees, etc. make it more difficult. I currently live in a flat area(central valley of Calif) own a 2 story home with a single story next to me, so the line of sight was pretty easy this time around.

Don't like the 2 dish idea and in no hurry to go back to E* anyway. Remains to be seen how this plays out.

 

[DarrellP]

Some have said that Echostar III is not receivable on the west coast.

This is BS. I had Dish HD from 61.5 for 2 1/2 years prior to them moving to 110. My signal was just as reliable as Voom's and I am in the Portland, OR area. They are so close together that You don't even have to readjust the dish, though it will cost a few signal strength points.

I was testing my Voom setup trying to determine the source of mosquito noise and I disconnected my Voom cable, plugged it into my Dish 6000 and had an excellent signal from their HD Demo channel, which still resides at 61.5. So if anyone is receiving Voom, they can receive Dish no problem from 61.5. Been there, done that, didn't get the T-shirt.

 

[calypsocowboy]

Just how much does a new satellite cost? My guess is quite a bit more than 200 mil.

 

[rad]

Echostar 3 is an 8 year old satellite. Rainbow 1 less than 2 years old. Simple common sense says E* is buying more advanced hardware, not the least of which includes MPEG4 capability.

Can someone enlighten me on why a satellite would need to be MPEG4 capable? Isn't the satellite just relaying whatever datastream is sent up to it back down? Like I didn't have to upgrade any network connections I have to be able to download a MPEG4 file off the net.

 

[n0qcu]

Can someone enlighten me on why a satellite would need to be MPEG4 capable? Isn't the satellite just relaying whatever datastream is sent up to it back down? Like I didn't have to upgrade any network connections I have to be able to download a MPEG4 file off the net.

Finally someone figured it out.

 

[David_Levin]

Yes, the sat has nothing to do with mpeg4.

The big advantage for Rainbow 1 is the spot beams (which Voom was not using). It'll be interesting to see if Dish keeps it at 61.5, or moves it to 110 (where they might be able to get a lot more use out of it without upgrading Dishes).

There have been posts from people on the West coast who couldn't get a signal for Voom, so power isn't the only issue (it's a tuff angle).

Dish will probably keep quiet until they get the FCC approval. Perhaps they'll claim they need this to meet the 1-dish LIL requirement.

 

[rad]

Yes, the sat has nothing to do with mpeg4.

I knew that but I was getting tired of people posting that E* wanted Rainbow 1 because it did MPEG4. Too many experts floating around here

 

[DishSatUser]

Uhh, even EchoStar III could broadcast MPEG4, so it's not the purchase of Rainbow-1 that allows MPEG4 content.

Think of the Sat's as digital pipes with error correction added to the signal, it can be sent as WMV9, MPEG1.5 (D* was this for a time), MPEG2 or MPEG4, to the Sat it don't matter.

What matters is the uplink signal encoders (not the transmitters but the content producing equipment) and the ability for your box to decode the signal.

But the fact that it's a fully functioning, full power and spot capable Sat, is the reason it was most likely purchased.

 

[vurbano]

I knew that but I was getting tired of people posting that E* wanted Rainbow 1 because it did MPEG4. Too many experts floating around here

Actually I thought it would be the mpeg4 encoders and mpeg4 compatible/upgradable boxes and sat capacity they would want. As well as the mpeg4 HD DVR.

 

[James Long]

Here's some info for the techies.
...
Of all the 32 slivers available at the 61.5 orbital location, DISH Network holds a license for 15 transponders, Voom has 13, and Sky Angel (a religious-oriented DBS broadcaster) has 2.

Not quite.

DISH Network holds license to 11 transponders, the even ones 2-22.
SkyAngel (Dominion) holds license to 8 transponders, 25-32.

Since SkyAngel hasn't bothered to launch a satellite they use E3 to transmit all of their channels on two transponders provided by E* in exchange for allowing E* to use six of SkyAngel's licensed frequencies and other considerations.

As noted in what you quoted, E3 is no longer capable of covering all of the transponders available to E* for programming. Rainbow1 isn't much help as most of its transponders are ODD, however the spotbeam arrangements could help multiply the output, and the simple availablilty of 11 more transponders makes the loss of use of a couple transponders less important.

JL

 

[mike123abc]

Actually I thought it would be the mpeg4 encoders and mpeg4 compatible/upgradable boxes and sat capacity they would want. As well as the mpeg4 HD DVR.

There is no evidence that VOOM even had any of this "technology". In fact the satellite can care less what it is transmitting, it just sends a bit stream. The bit stream can be an MPEG-2 stream, MPEG-4 stream, a shopping list, the contents of the Library of Congress... ANYTHING that can be reduced to 1s and 0s.

The VOOM settop boxes are MPEG2 NOT MPEG4 compatible. They have an expansion slot that perhaps someday could have had an add on board that would support MPEG4.

VOOM did NOT DEVELOPE ANY MPEG4 technology. It was Motorola's set top box that they were relying on to eventually have an upgrade and if then even bought an MPEG4 encoder it was not BOUGHT not designed and built by VOOM.

VOOM is not connected at all with MPEG4 development. VOOM may have eventually been a customer of companies developing the technology. You could call up and order any of this stuff yourself if you have the money.

The ONLY assets were the satellite, uplink center and transponders.

 

[calypsocowboy]

So does Voom have more than one uplink faciltiy or just the South Dakato one. I can't think that the SD one is the only one.

 

[thxdan]

Not quite.

DISH Network holds license to 11 transponders, the even ones 2-22.
SkyAngel (Dominion) holds license to 8 transponders, 25-32.

Thanks dude...I have to admit, it is hard to figure out who owns rights to various transponders at 61.5 West. I based it on actual LyngSat reported usage, but I see now that it doesn't tell the whole story!

-Dan

 

[vurbano]

There is no evidence that VOOM even had any of this "technology". .

Wrong, according to Sean they were running an Mpeg4 test channel so they had to have an mpeg4 encoder and a decoder to recieve it.

And of course VOOM didnt DEVELOP anything, Motorola did.

And of course Voom was not responsible for developing mpeg4. Im not sure where you were rambling with that one.

But if mpeg4 was scheduled for March Im sure Dolan had a large order in production.

And im not going to argue word meaning of compatible and upgradeable the point is you wouldnt have to throw the FKN box away like all of D* and E*'s boxes.

 

[Walter L.]

I would say that E* will use Rainbow-1 in spot mode to launch the 1st HD local markets and keep up with D*.

 

[vurbano]

I would say that E* will use Rainbow-1 in spot mode to launch the 1st HD local markets and keep up with D*.

Wouldnt that actually beat D* to the punch?

 

[Walter L.]

Wouldnt that actually beat D* to the punch?

I agree. In fact, since D* already announced what those markets are, E* may start 1st.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Dish has already said they will let Directv lead in the hd market and they will follow. Now that Directv's hd plans are known , Dish can now beat them to the punch and launch hd locals first. That is if the FCC approves of the buyout before the summer, and if Directv actually launches the 12 markets they say they will by summer.

Remember Summer starts June 21, and ends Sept. 21, so let's see if Dish can make this happen before the June 21 start of summer. That leaves us 5 months from today to make this happen. Knowing Dish's record on deadlines I don't think it will happen before the end of summer or by the end of this year, if they get FCC approval. We all know how much the FCC loves Charlie.

 

[Indy]

Over at DBS Forums the vultures are circling debating the best dissection of the newly acquired assets. And I point out the deal is not done yet is it?

But then again Dan Collins never had an ounce of compassion for Voom from the start.