Email from Dishquality!

[Drone35]

In regards to the HD-lite there are several different HD formats. Dish Network's HDTV service consists of channels broadcast using accepted HDTV resolution standards, including 1,280 X 720, 1280 X 1080, 1440 X 1080, and 1920 X 1080. All of the resolutions used by DISH network produce a true HD image. Please realize that some of the content, typically used during daytime programming is actually upconverted standard definition programming. This is received by DISH Network in this format from the provider and passed through to you the customer. Upconverted SD programming is easily identifiable by black vertical bars on either side of the screen. Regardless of the resolution, you should not be seeing any digitizing, pixeling, break-up, lip sync, or fuzzy video on any of your HD channels. If you are seeing any of these issues, we would like to know so that we can try and correct as soon as possible.
Please be aware, the HD world is relatively new, we are constantly trying to find the right mix to get more HD and with the best possible resolution. We work for improvement in this area every day. We are constantly analyzing our channel layout and trying to find better "match ups" for the bandwidth sharing. As we add channels and improve technology, you may, from time to time, see fluctuations in the picture quality. We apologize for this; however, we are doing this in an attempt to continue to offer more choices to our customers without serious quality degradation. We have also made strides in improving the quality of many channels on the service in the past few months with more improvements planned for the future. The best advice we can give to our HD customers is to be patient.
Thanks again for your request. The Quality Assurance team wishes you a safe and Happy Holiday.
EchoStar Satellite LLC
Quality Assurance Department
dishquality@echostar.com

 

[Drone35]

Man, 34 looks and no responses and I thought this was a forum where we dicussed things, o well! This was my responce to Dish!

Dear Dishquality, 1280x1080 and 1440x1080 may be your HD standard but it's not true HD as defined by the FCC! Dish needs to step up to the plate and give us what we really want TRUE HD 1920X1080, this is what we thought we were paying for and I'm not alone as you know! Please at least increase the birate that is being used with your Dish HD! These channels are really birate starved, which really hurts picture quality! The quality of Dish HD has really been on a downward swirl sense 2005, the quality used to be eye popping and really wowed us, now its just better than sd, and its because Dish has lowered the standard for their HD and are bit starving the channels, please improve your HD Dish! We want to see it like we used to!

Thanks, concerned Dish costomer!

 

[AT&TDishman]

You are right about the HD quality. However, I doubt Dish will do anything about it anytime soon, but I am sure there will be promises of better HD quality in 2007, or maybe in 2008, but no later than 2009, and definately by 2010!!!

 

[Jim5506]

No, he is wrong. All the different resolutions mentioned in the email from Dish are FCC approved HD resolutions for satellite transmission. Ideally all would be 720X1280 and 1080X1920, but those are just the top resolutions, not the ONLY resolutions.

Bit starving is another ball of wax. 1080X1920 broadcast at 10mbps is bit starved and will show up as macro blocking in dark areas and solid colored areas such as a football field. I see this as more of a problem than 1080X1440.

 

[Smith P.]

I would say it is two sides of ONE coin. PQ.

 

[digiblur]

Please at least increase the birate that is being used with your Dish HD! These channels are really birate starved, which really hurts picture quality!

If it was only that easy...

Have you looked at D*'s HDLite lately?

 

[Poke]

Yeah Dish can only do so much due to most of it is on the Network's end on how they broadcast things. Some Networks have better hardware than others and is why some channels look better than others. Until they all get on better equipment some HD Channels will seem to have a better PQ than other's. Overall I think in the next year or so things will get better due to the price of the equipment will get cheaper for the networks.

 

[Drone35]

If it was only that easy...

Have you looked at D*'s HDLite lately?

No, I hav'nt looked at D*'s HD lately, but I'm sure its not as good, but if their birates are up its probally not so bad! Dish could up the birates if they choose, but for some reason they don't! Its beyond me!

 

[digiblur]

No, I hav'nt looked at D*'s HD lately, but I'm sure its not as good, but if their birates are up its probally not so bad! Dish could up the birates if they choose, but for some reason they don't! Its beyond me!

Their bitrates aren't up. D*'s current modulation scheme on their 101/110/119 birds only give them about 30mbps a TP. At least E* can crank out 40mbps a TP on their 8PSK muxes.

You just can't crank up the bitrate without taking the bits you want from something else. Take this TP for example DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, SHOHD mux. Notice there aren't any 0x1FFF room left on the bars? 0x1FFF are null packets, as in idle bandwidth. Where are you going to get this extra bandwidth you are asking for?

Like I said... it's not as simple as you think.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Dear Customer,

Please remember that we are Echostar. As such, we do not understand why you would expect us to provide HD programs in anything more than the lowest possible resolution and with the least bandwidth that one could arguably state is still HD.

After all, this is what we've been doing with our SD channels for several years.

Perhaps you have mistaken us for a company that gives a rat's @$$ about picture quality. If so, we forgive your error.

We truly appreciate the money you send us every month and sincerely hope that you will continue to do so.

Your Dish Customer Team

 

[BFG]

No, he is wrong. All the different resolutions mentioned in the email from Dish are FCC approved HD resolutions for satellite transmission. Ideally all would be 720X1280 and 1080X1920, but those are just the top resolutions, not the ONLY resolutions.

Bit starving is another ball of wax. 1080X1920 broadcast at 10mbps is bit starved and will show up as macro blocking in dark areas and solid colored areas such as a football field. I see this as more of a problem than 1080X1440.

what he said now can you please stop beating the dead horse

 

[SRW1000]

No, he is wrong. All the different resolutions mentioned in the email from Dish are FCC approved HD resolutions for satellite transmission. Ideally all would be 720X1280 and 1080X1920, but those are just the top resolutions, not the ONLY resolutions.

Oh boy, here we go again.

The FCC has not defined HD resolution for satellite transmission.

The ATSC has defined HD as either 1080x1920 or 720x1280. The have also specified other resolutions as acceptable DBS standards, but they are not defined as HD.

Let's try to keep the facts straight, and not let Dish manipulate the numbers.

Scott

 

[langlin]

Oh boy, here we go again.

The FCC has not defined HD resolution for satellite transmission.

The ATSC has defined HD as either 1080x1920 or 720x1280. The have also specified other resolutions as acceptable DBS standards, but they are not defined as HD.

Let's try to keep the facts straight, and not let Dish manipulate the numbers.

Scott

The facts are that ALL transmissions are compressed even the highest standard and without compression we would have no HD broadcasts. I for one enjoy the HD from dish and realize that if it was sent at the highest standard we would probably only have one channel..... also live television at 60 frames per second uses a lot more bandwidth than film at 24 frames per second and bit starving will vary from source to source.

 

[jimboeau]

Their bitrates aren't up. D*'s current modulation scheme on their 101/110/119 birds only give them about 30mbps a TP. At least E* can crank out 40mbps a TP on their 8PSK muxes.

You just can't crank up the bitrate without taking the bits you want from something else. Take this TP for example DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, SHOHD mux. Notice there aren't any 0x1FFF room left on the bars? 0x1FFF are null packets, as in idle bandwidth. Where are you going to get this extra bandwidth you are asking for?

Like I said... it's not as simple as you think.

If those same 3 channels were mpeg 4 on the same TP wouldn't that improve PQ?

 

[Smith P.]

No, because Dish cramming only 4 channels with H.264 compression in those tp.

 

[Jim5506]

Oh boy, here we go again.

The FCC has not defined HD resolution for satellite transmission.

The ATSC has defined HD as either 1080x1920 or 720x1280. The have also specified other resolutions as acceptable DBS standards, but they are not defined as HD.

Let's try to keep the facts straight, and not let Dish manipulate the numbers.

Scott

I was incorrect only in that I said FCC not ATSC. ATSC has defined HD standards, no definitions.

 

[digiblur]

If those same 3 channels were mpeg 4 on the same TP wouldn't that improve PQ?

Maybe... but I'm sure lots of 811, 942, and 6000 users would be upset.

 

[SRW1000]

I was incorrect only in that I said FCC not ATSC. ATSC has defined HD standards, no definitions.

Unless things have changed recently, 1080x1440 and 1080x1280 are not specified as HD standards, only as acceptable DBS broadcast resolutions.

Scott

 

[Poke]

Yeah well folks that are on the 811 or 942 should go ahead and upgrade anyway. But overall untill more network broadcast things things in HD Dish or any provider can only control so much.

 

[Jim5506]

http://www.atsc.org/standards/a81.html

This page lists the 3 standards for 1080. There is a chart on page 17 (Chart 7.3) giving all the accepted standards for 1080 ATSC Direct-to-Home Broadcasts over satellite. Not only are all three acceptable for 1080i but also for 1080p.