***Everyone read this***picture quality

[ROLLTIDE]

Can we start a thead on line conditioners . I would love to talk about this some more.

 

[DarrellP]

Why do you Dish Junkies continue to defend the PQ from Dish? There is no ISF calibration in the world that will eliminate the Purple that is supposed to be black, or the spiderweb background during movement that should be solid black, or the "mush face" when there is movement, or the "orbiting" of high contrast objects. I see all of these symptoms on either: My 13" monitor, my 17" monitor, my 27" TV or my 110" front projector screen (which has been tweaked to the max). So why is that I only see crap on the SD channels and all of my HD looks pristine?

These are NOT a symptom of a properly calibrated TV, they are symptoms of highly compressed MPEG data streams.

Dish is now toying with compressing the hell out of HDNET Movies. Shawshank Redemption this weekend had the same annoying symptoms that the SD channels have been exhibiting for years. Come on Dish, quit adding locals and give us more bandwidth and please do not mess with the HD channels.

I'll quit ranting now, it just really irks me to see people standing behind Dish and saying they have good PQ, obviously you don't know what good PQ is.

Iceman, good quote, I wonder where they are sending that pristine digital image to? It certainly is not to my house.

 

[M Law]

Rolltide - I was thinking the same thing, started a new thread in the Gen Sat forum. Included surge suppressors and power conditioners.

 

[Mike Greer]

I have a 921 (in addition to other E* receivers). I was watching the local CBS affialiate here in Boston during Prime Time hours.

There are three ways I can watch the local channels (via OTA Analog, Via OTA Digital, and Via E*). The interesting thing is that during commercials, all of the versions look like garbage. It seems that the local station is using some ad inseration system that provides pretty bad quality. The text on the car ads are almost unreadable. The CBS programs look very good of course via OTA Digital OTA Analog they also look pretty good. Via E* it is not too bad.

The first thing I always ask people complaining about PQ is on what channels are they having problems. The locals are usually the worst of all the channels on E* and D*. This is for multiple reasons, not the least of which is that the supply chain for these channels is much more complicated than for a satellite delivered channel (like MTV or Nick or CNN). The typical basic channel (like MTV Nick Cnn or Foxnews), is a second generation of the channel on E* or D*. Local channels are typically 4th or 5th generation.
1) The network broadcasts it
2) The Local station receives it, transmits it to their tower via some link.
3) The tower broadcasts it
4) The E* OTA receiver receives it, encodes it and uplinks it via satellite or fiber link.
5) E* Receives it in Cheyene.
6) E* Transmits it to the customer.

Now even if that entire signal chain is digital, there has to be re-compression before it goes into the E* uplink simply because of bandwidth restrictions, etc.

Mike, I did not find any mention in your posts which channels you are complaining about.

Reedl

I don't have Dish Network anymore - I want it - I just can't stand to use it.

The local channels are the worst but the other channels can also be very bad. I think they are cramming 12 channels per transponder for the locals and 10 channels per transponder for most of the others.

I have given up on SD TV ever improving - people just don't care - what I am most concerned about is HDTV. I want a 921 PVR (if they ever are available) but I don't want screwed up HDTV just so they can cram more locals and shopping channels into their system. I have been waiting for a 921 for a year now and still don't know when they will be available. I hope they are available before Dish does to HD what they have done to SD.

 

[Mike Greer]

Mike - Fact 7 - Digital will always be of lower quality than analog period. No amount of bandwidth can save it. Digital does not use a loss less compression, so it has to be of lower quality by definition. Even HD is worse than film - just the facts - the color range just isn't available, there are not enough pixels to capture a film image.

I have done side by side compares. My set will allow me to do them at view DBS and OTA at the same time. I get a darn good DBS picture, especially when compared to local analog or cable.

It sounds like in some other markets this is not the same. I can understand your frustration, but not everyone is having the same problem.

I agree that the best digital will always be worse than the best analog but DirecTV and Dish Network take digital to new lows! I can live with *some* loss in PQ to be able to get what could be a great all-around service... They just seem to have forgotten the 'great all-around service' part.

If you want to see how good analog can be just compare some C-Band analog with DirecTV or Dish Network.

 

[Rlanham]

Kev - really? I always put Monster somewhere above snake oil, mostly because of their horrendous overcharging for digital cables (DVI, Optical Audio, etc etc). I'd be swayed on this product from someone whom I trust (he of the VP of Cold Beer from HDTVoice...)

Monster "Screen" cleaning system is well worth the cost ($20) IMO.

 

[Kevinw]

Why do you Dish Junkies continue to defend the PQ from Dish? There is no ISF calibration in the world that will eliminate the Purple that is supposed to be black, or the spiderweb background during movement that should be solid black, or the "mush face" when there is movement, or the "orbiting" of high contrast objects. I see all of these symptoms on either: My 13" monitor, my 17" monitor, my 27" TV or my 110" front projector screen (which has been tweaked to the max). So why is that I only see crap on the SD channels and all of my HD looks pristine?

These are NOT a symptom of a properly calibrated TV, they are symptoms of highly compressed MPEG data streams.

Dish is now toying with compressing the hell out of HDNET Movies. Shawshank Redemption this weekend had the same annoying symptoms that the SD channels have been exhibiting for years. Come on Dish, quit adding locals and give us more bandwidth and please do not mess with the HD channels.

I'll quit ranting now, it just really irks me to see people standing behind Dish and saying they have good PQ, obviously you don't know what good PQ is.

Iceman, good quote, I wonder where they are sending that pristine digital image to? It certainly is not to my house.

I see dead people..
I guess I am just dumb or dumb ass lucky. My Pq on DISH is 10 times better than what I had from Adelphia on my 13 inch, 20 inch, 27 inch and my 50 inch tv wich has also been tweaked to the max. You got me by 60 in. on the last one. I can only imagine what is supposed to look like since I obviously don't know what good PQ is.