Extra charge if not connected to phone line?

skottey

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 10, 2007
1,826
0
Denver Metro, CO
Perhaps I'm going blind.

I agree completely.

One thing; these guys are always vague about is who is responsible for repairs. It seems like when it craps and you call it's a throw of the dice to see if you get a nice CSR that tells you can upgrade for free if you just sign up for X. Or maybe you can get a new one for shipping of 49.95. Or you get someone pissed off you tells you "tough it's out of warranty" so fork up 479 bucks. Or they tell you you can ship it at your expense and they will fix it and return it... price and time known.

I enjoy Dish as a secondary provider to my cable service (Bright House Networks - Tampa market). I lease all 3 of my boxes (622,211, and a plain old box for my kids room) and am on no commitment. I have been with them for 8 months or so and have had my leased 622 box replaced due to a bad software update. They were very good about replacing it but I lost several hours of movies recorded from Monsters HD and Starz. I wasn't happy but life goes on. But one thing I will not tolerate would be if I called to have my 622 replaced after a bad update and they asked me to pay for a repair or shipping. I would simply shut off service and tell them to f* off, and either go with DirecTV as my secondary or Verizon Fios when it comes to my neighborhood.

See, I have had good experiences with Dish from install to customer service calls and most everything in between. But I have read the horror stories on this website and have to say I would not tolerate being treated the way some people have been treated by Dish. One thing that really annoys me too is their audit process. I have done nothing wrong but if they called and alienated me with an audit, I would be totally pissed and probably tell them to go to hell. I also don't like the CEO/owner, or whatever he is these days, political views. I found out recently he is in bed with Hillary and well, that is just idiotic and not something I am too fond of.

Like I said though, Dish has been good to me and I enjoy their service. All I can say to others is not to put up with any BS. There are other options and you just don't have to take crap from a corporation like them.
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,381
544
suburbia
Interesting that the installer didn't say anything about connecting to a phone line when he did the installation. Any idea why that is done? What do they do with the phone line? On a positive note, I do have caller id, so connecting it would give me that support.
The tech didn't say anything about phone connectivity because he isn't required to do so. That is supposed to be covered at point of sale. The person SELLING the service is supposed to do his job. Our job is not to resell the product. The consumer has the responsibilty to find out as much as they can before about a product/service before they buy. Our job(techs) is to go to the customers home, consult with the customer on installation and complete the work. We then do a brief demo on the basic fucntions of the EQ. We are not sales people.
Now if the customer asks I will give them all the details they need and should have.
 

skottey

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 10, 2007
1,826
0
Denver Metro, CO
The tech didn't say anything about phone connectivity because he isn't required to do so. That is supposed to be covered at point of sale. The person SELLING the service is supposed to do his job. Our job is not to resell the product. The consumer has the responsibilty to find out as much as they can before about a product/service before they buy. Our job(techs) is to go to the customers home, consult with the customer on installation and complete the work. We then do a brief demo on the basic fucntions of the EQ. We are not sales people.
Now if the customer asks I will give them all the details they need and should have.

I don't agree with you on the points that "the consumer had the responsibility to find out as much as they can before a product/service before they buy" and that it isn't your job to connect the phone line (or Ethernet).

I say this as a very technical person both professionally (computers and networking) and cable and satellite TV (technical hobbyist). A few facts I should point out...

1- the customer switching from cable to satellite is not used to having to plug in a phone line to their cable box and the idea of plugging in a phone line to the box is foreign, and strange to them. They would never expect in a million years that they would have to do such a thing. In my case and I assume in many, the point of sale (phone call to dish) NEVER mentioned the need for a phone line. In fact, I don't even have a phone line in the room where my 622 is located (I have Ethernet in there and it works fine for this). Incidentally, the tech never mentioned this either.

2- If it is required, the tech should hook it up and I'd even go as far as to say he should have ample amounts of RJ11 with him, a splitter, and be prepared to discuss why he is hooking up the customers phone line to their box. No excuses. If dish requires it (or Ethernet), the tech should for sure discuss with the customer. How dare you suggest otherwise. If he doesn't, he isn't doing his job. I own my own technology service company (computers and networks) and I cover all bases. Not hooking up a phone line or Ethernet and discussing with the customer in your world is like me setting up a residential customer's computer in my world and not installing or discussing antivirus and antispyware software. We both have a level of responsibility and for you to say otherwise puts a spotlight on your integrity, or lack there of.

As a customer of Dish talking to a Dish Installer, I demand you do the following at all installs....

a) Phone line or Ethernet hooked up for customer

b) explain to customer why phone line or Ethernet is hooked up.

NO EXCUSES!

3- Let's face it, consumers often don't care why or how it works, and just want it to work when the tech leaves. They want it to work the right way. If it needs a phone line or Ethernet, They want it hooked up the right way so they aren't dealing with a CSR or billing on the phone later on down the road. Just do your job man. Give them the information and do the right thing. Don't half ass an install.

I was never explained the need for a phone line or Ethernet, and neither are hundreds (or thousands) of other customers. As long as they require this to avoid a $5/month fee on the dual tuner box, they owe it to the customers to have it explained, at the POS AND INSTALL levels!

Good day.
-
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,381
544
suburbia
I don't agree with you on the points that "the consumer had the responsibility to find out as much as they can before a product/service before they buy" and that it isn't your job to connect the phone line (or Ethernet).

I say this as a very technical person both professionally (computers and networking) and cable and satellite TV (technical hobbyist). A few facts I should point out...

1- the customer switching from cable to satellite is not used to having to plug in a phone line to their cable box and the idea of plugging in a phone line to the box is foreign, and strange to them. They would never expect in a million years that they would have to do such a thing. In my case and I assume in many, the point of sale (phone call to dish) NEVER mentioned the need for a phone line. In fact, I don't even have a phone line in the room where my 622 is located (I have Ethernet in there and it works fine for this). Incidentally, the tech never mentioned this either.

2- If it is required, the tech should hook it up and I'd even go as far as to say he should have ample amounts of RJ11 with him, a splitter, and be prepared to discuss why he is hooking up the customers phone line to their box. No excuses. If dish requires it (or Ethernet), the tech should for sure discuss with the customer. How dare you suggest otherwise. If he doesn't, he isn't doing his job. I own my own technology service company (computers and networks) and I cover all bases. Not hooking up a phone line or Ethernet and discussing with the customer in your world is like me setting up a residential customer's computer in my world and not installing or discussing antivirus and antispyware software. We both have a level of responsibility and for you to say otherwise puts a spotlight on your integrity, or lack there of.

As a customer of Dish talking to a Dish Installer, I demand you do the following at all installs....

a) Phone line or Ethernet hooked up for customer

b) explain to customer why phone line or Ethernet is hooked up.

NO EXCUSES!

3- Let's face it, consumers often don't care why or how it works, and just want it to work when the tech leaves. They want it to work the right way. If it needs a phone line or Ethernet, They want it hooked up the right way so they aren't dealing with a CSR or billing on the phone later on down the road. Just do your job man. Give them the information and do the right thing. Don't half ass an install.

I was never explained the need for a phone line or Ethernet, and neither are hundreds (or thousands) of other customers. As long as they require this to avoid a $5/month fee on the dual tuner box, they owe it to the customers to have it explained, at the POS AND INSTALL levels!

Good day.
-
I never stated that it was not our job to connect the phone line. It is, if there is a jack in the room within 25 feet and that does not require the jumper cross a traffic area, door or threshold.
Your assertion that the customer has zero responsibitlity in their purchases is an example of the entitlement mentality of some people that is ruining this country.
The bottom line is the phone line is not required and if the customer requests the phone line to be installed it is a chargable service. And solely at the discretion of the tech. He may agree to install or he may not. Usually time constraints prevent this. But an arrangement can be made with the customer if the parties agree. What you think matters not. This is dish policy. To compare the simple connection of a phone line to satellite receiver that has but one purpose(pay per view using the remote) to installing anti virus protection on a computer sytem or network is ludicrous.
again, the installation of a hardwire phone line or ethernet cable is NOT required by Dish of the intall tech. It is NOT required for the proper functionality of the receiver. The connections are for additonal featuresPay per view vua remote and caller ID..That's it). Lastly, the hardwire phone line or ethernet is NOT part of a Dish network basic install (read the contract/ service agreement) and therfore is CHARGABLE to the customer by the technician when services are renedered.
I don't give a sh*t about "Let's face it, consumers often don't care why or how it works"...It's about time they do. I have been in customer service in one form or another for 25 years. I can tell you customers are becoming increasingly high maintenence and less educated about how they spend their money. It isn't that way because they don't know. It's because they don't care to know. And that isn't my problem. In the case of a satellite customer , they have already gone to the source with all the answers, that is the sales person. It is up to that sales person who is getting paid a commission to close a sale to give all the informatuion to the customer that they need to make an informed decision about the product. We are just the people who do the work. If we are going to resell the product then we should be paid the sales commission. Since we are not paid and there is someone who supposed to be doing as you say " Just do your job man. Give them the information and do the right thing." then make them( the sales people) responsible for any missed infomation. I as a tech should not be held responsible for the actions of a sh!tty sales person.
I fail to see the reason for your hostility.
So you can take your "how dare you" and shove it where the sun don't shine. We are most uinequivocally done here.
 

Tyralak

SatelliteGuys Master
Oct 21, 2003
5,702
167
Secure, Undisclosed Location
Interesting that the installer didn't say anything about connecting to a phone line when he did the installation. Any idea why that is done? What do they do with the phone line? On a positive note, I do have caller id, so connecting it would give me that support.

He probably didn't say anything because if there was no phone line in the room, there wasn't much he could have done about it.

Secondly, a big pet peeve of us technicians is the fact that the CSRs almost NEVER explain the phone line fee to the customer when they order. They just quote them the price as if they had a phone line connected, and expect the technician to clean up the mess when they come out. Ask any technician, we are sick to death of having the customer blow up when we mention the phone line. "What!? They never said anything about a phone line! Who has a phone line near their TV!?" The technician shouldn't be the first person the customer hears about the phone line requirement from. The CSRs deliberatly "forget" to mention the phone line thing because, the customer might decide not to order if they knew.

Enough of my frustrated ranting. :) Now to answer your other question: Why is a phone line needed?

1. It allows you to order PPV with your remote.

2. It allows Dish to get feedback from the receivers as to their health. If a receivier is having certain problems, or if the LNBF is experiencing drift, the receivers can let Dish know about it, and they can contact you to set up a trouble call before the system causes a service interruption.

3. Dish can verify that the receivers are all at the customer's residence, and not at other people's house. (account stacking)

4. As respects DVRs, it allows Dish to collect aggregate data (no customer identifyable information) about general viewing habits of DVR users to provide to people who compile ratings.

Hope that helps! :D
 

Tyralak

SatelliteGuys Master
Oct 21, 2003
5,702
167
Secure, Undisclosed Location
I don't agree with you on the points that "the consumer had the responsibility to find out as much as they can before a product/service before they buy" and that it isn't your job to connect the phone line (or Ethernet).


That's the one thing you're right about. It isn't the customer's sole responsibility
to find these hidden fees out. The sales rep is supposed to disclose all fees. The fact that so many of them "forget" this particular fee is aggrivating in the extreme to us technician who have to clean up their mess, and deal with irate customers.


1- the customer switching from cable to satellite is not used to having to plug in a phone line to their cable box and the idea of plugging in a phone line to the box is foreign, and strange to them. They would never expect in a million years that they would have to do such a thing. In my case and I assume in many, the point of sale (phone call to dish) NEVER mentioned the need for a phone line. In fact, I don't even have a phone line in the room where my 622 is located (I have Ethernet in there and it works fine for this). Incidentally, the tech never mentioned this either.


That's the rub right there. Let me say this very slowly so you can grasp it. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CSR WHO IS SELLING THE SERVICE TO GO OVER ALL FEES. IT IS NOT THE TECHNICIAN'S JOB TO EXPLAIN BILLING AND FEE ISSUES. If the CSR didn't go over it at time of order, THEY aren't doing their jobs!

2- If it is required, the tech should hook it up and I'd even go as far as to say he should have ample amounts of RJ11 with him, a splitter, and be prepared to discuss why he is hooking up the customers phone line to their box. No excuses. If dish requires it (or Ethernet), the tech should for sure discuss with the customer. How dare you suggest otherwise. If he doesn't, he isn't doing his job. I own my own technology service company (computers and networks) and I cover all bases. Not hooking up a phone line or Ethernet and discussing with the customer in your world is like me setting up a residential customer's computer in my world and not installing or discussing antivirus and antispyware software. We both have a level of responsibility and for you to say otherwise puts a spotlight on your integrity, or lack there of.


Let me throw a big steaming handful of reality at you. Not only is it not the responsibility of the technician to run phone lines to rooms that don't have them, WE AREN'T ALLOWED TO. Subcontractors may do it for an extra fee, but company technicians are no allowed to touch the customer's phone box. (NID) We do not carry rolls of RJ11, nor any phone line tools. We do have phone splitters and couplers, and are expected to connect the box if there's a phone line in that room. If there isn't, outside of you buying a wireless jack from Dish or Radio Shack, there's nothing we can do. We aren't phone company technicians and aren't trained nor licenced to access the customer's NID. The only responsibility of the tech is as I mentioned before: Hook it up if it is availible within reach of the 25' line included in the box.

As a customer of Dish talking to a Dish Installer, I demand you do the following at all installs....

a) Phone line or Ethernet hooked up for customer


Demand all you want. I and any other tech is going to tell you to f**k off. Let me make this very clear, Mr. Demands. We ARE NOT ALLOWED TO RUN PHONE LINES. If there is a jack in the room, we will connect to it. Otherwise, it's your responsibility.

b) explain to customer why phone line or Ethernet is hooked up.

We do.

NO EXCUSES!


Bite me.

3- Let's face it, consumers often don't care why or how it works, and just want it to work when the tech leaves. They want it to work the right way. If it needs a phone line or Ethernet, They want it hooked up the right way so they aren't dealing with a CSR or billing on the phone later on down the road. Just do your job man. Give them the information and do the right thing. Don't half ass an install.


We ARE doing our jobs! Installing phone jacks is the phone company's job not ours.
 
Last edited:

Bruno

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 8, 2003
432
109
Sorry if I appeared to be cutting too hard on Dish. On one hand, I don't remember ever paying my cable company an up front fee for any of the hardware. On the other hand, their monthly fees were quite a bit higher... If only everything were free :)


Come to Oklahoma ...the cable companys here are charging to lease a Digital box for the HD programing.
 

aperry

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 26, 2003
700
0
For us it was pretty simple. The 622 got hooked up and would not go past the "hook up a phone line" screen until we did so. Then, when we disconnected from the phone line to move it (no phone jack in the new location), the message came back up and wouldn't go away.

We wound up calling them and paying the $5 a month for the time being until we decide if that location is permanent.
 

skottey

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 10, 2007
1,826
0
Denver Metro, CO
Your assertion that the customer has zero responsibitlity in their purchases is an example of the entitlement mentality of some people that is ruining this country.

The entitlement mentality that is ruining this country is that of all the citizens wanting handouts and assistance for things such as health care and food from the government. You can hardly compare people doing business with Dish and expecting to be given the details such as "phone line required to avoid $5/mo charge on the 622," and government handouts. The fact is, I am a techy guy and a satellite and cable hobbyist. If I wasn't such a nerd in this regard, reading satellite guys on a daily basis, I would have never known that a phone line is required. Again, I was not told this at the point of sale and I was not told this by the installer. I have cable and satellite and willingly shell out over $200/month on services, but I am not a PPV guy. I NEVER order PPV so sure, I examined my box, read all about it online, and of course knew that the phone jack was used in part to authorize PPV. But I did not know it was required for the 622 to avoid the charge. I figured since I never order PPV, it wasn't a real concern. I only hooked up Ethernet since I had a wireless bridge 2 feet away and the wii and Xbox 360, among other goodies nearby were all hooked up. I hoped for some unknown future Ethernet related Internet feature, like programming my DVR from the Internet, and that is the only reason I ever even hooked up the Ethernet. Personally, I went way beyond the average customer in learning about Dish. Believe me, I am ahead of you in line to bitch about the entitlement mentality of this nation, but that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about a customer willfully doing business with Dish, and Dish not giving the customer all the details. These customers aren't acting entitled at all to expect the proper information. Come on now.


The bottom line is the phone line is not required and if the customer requests the phone line to be installed it is a chargable service. And solely at the discretion of the tech. He may agree to install or he may not. Usually time constraints prevent this. But an arrangement can be made with the customer if the parties agree.

The phone line is required (or Ethernet now) for users of the 622 to avoid the $5/month fee. If Dish wants to charge this fee for not having a line hooked up, fine, but they owe their customers to explain it to them at all levels. The point of sale should have advised us of the $5 fee, and so should the installer!


What you think matters not. This is dish policy. To compare the simple connection of a phone line to satellite receiver that has but one purpose(pay per view using the remote) to installing anti virus protection on a computer sytem or network is ludicrous.
again, the installation of a hardwire phone line or ethernet cable is NOT required by Dish of the intall tech. It is NOT required for the proper functionality of the receiver.

My comparison is that if I don't discuss and/or install antivirus with my customers (PC repair), I am not doing my job. If the Dish installer doesn't advise the customer that he/she is going to be hit with a $5/mo charge for not having a phone or Ethernet line hooked up on the 622, the technician is not doing his job either! It will come back on the customer for sure when they are hit with a $5 fee. You as a tech can explain to your customer that the 622 is required. You are blabbing off Dish policy but fail to understand the billing aspect of this. Yes, I know what the lines are used for. Yes I know the box will work without hooking up a phone or Ethernet. But the customer can and probably will get charged $5/month if the box is not connected to phone or Ethernet. You owe it to your customers to advise them of that.


It is up to that sales person who is getting paid a commission to close a sale to give all the informatuion to the customer that they need to make an informed decision about the product. We are just the people who do the work. If we are going to resell the product then we should be paid the sales commission. Since we are not paid and there is someone who supposed to be doing as you say " Just do your job man. Give them the information and do the right thing." then make them( the sales people) responsible for any missed infomation. I as a tech should not be held responsible for the actions of a sh!tty sales person.

Lovely attitude you have. I am sure glad you aren't working for me. But you do work for Dish, no? Aren't you part of the 'Dish family?' It may not be your fault that the salesperson didn't inform the customer about a charge, but you work for the 'family' too and should do your part to make sure the customers are satisfied. If you know darn well the customer is going to be hit with an extra $5/month for not having their 622 hooked up, your darn right you as a Dish employee owe it to the customer to advise them of such. You are obviously a finger pointer. Like when I call a software provider and they blame the hardware vendor, and vice versa. I'll bet you do a lot of finger pointing at sales. You are obviously bitter. The customer doesn't care who gets the commission check. They want their satellite service to work and they want their billing spelled out to them. Don't be a jerk and just let it slip through until their second or third bill when they see $5 extra on their bill and your job has long been done and you as their installer are forgotten. How do you live with yourself with such work ethic?

I weed employees like you out every chance I get.
 

skottey

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 10, 2007
1,826
0
Denver Metro, CO
That's the one thing you're right about. It isn't the customer's sole responsibility
to find these hidden fees out. The sales rep is supposed to disclose all fees. The fact that so many of them "forget" this particular fee is aggrivating in the extreme to us technician who have to clean up their mess, and deal with irate customers.





That's the rub right there. Let me say this very slowly so you can grasp it. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CSR WHO IS SELLING THE SERVICE TO GO OVER ALL FEES. IT IS NOT THE TECHNICIAN'S JOB TO EXPLAIN BILLING AND FEE ISSUES. If the CSR didn't go over it at time of order, THEY aren't doing their jobs!




Let me throw a big steaming handful of reality at you. Not only is it not the responsibility of the technician to run phone lines to rooms that don't have them, WE AREN'T ALLOWED TO. Subcontractors may do it for an extra fee, but company technicians are no allowed to touch the customer's phone box. (NID) We do not carry rolls of RJ11, nor any phone line tools. We do have phone splitters and couplers, and are expected to connect the box if there's a phone line in that room. If there isn't, outside of you buying a wireless jack from Dish or Radio Shack, there's nothing we can do. We aren't phone company technicians and aren't trained nor licenced to access the customer's NID. The only responsibility of the tech is as I mentioned before: Hook it up if it is availible within reach of the 25' line included in the box.




Demand all you want. I and any other tech is going to tell you to f**k off. Let me make this very clear, Mr. Demands. We ARE NOT ALLOWED TO RUN PHONE LINES. If there is a jack in the room, we will connect to it. Otherwise, it's your responsibility.



We do.




Bite me.




We ARE doing our jobs! Installing phone jacks is the phone company's job not ours.

You are a finger pointer too. Stop blaming the CSR and take some pride in your company. You work for Dish too, it wouldn't kill you to pick up the slack where a CSR left off. Sure it would be annoying, but do you like contributing to pissing off a customer?

Nobody is asking you to install a jack. Put in a phone line splitter or at least advise the customer that the 622 requires a hookup to avoid the $5/charge.

I agree fully that the CSR should be telling the customer of the potential $5/charge. But they obviously aren't. I'd chew them out too. You both work for Dish, and you both failed to tell me of this charge. Obviously, others haven't been told either.

If you take the bare minimum approach to your work, 20 years from now you'll be doing the same job. People don't get ahead by doing the minimum they can do at their job.

Stay out of my house and my company with your attitude. I only hire techs in my business that go the extra mile. If they told me "it isn't in my job description" they'd be looking for a new job.
 

Tyralak

SatelliteGuys Master
Oct 21, 2003
5,702
167
Secure, Undisclosed Location
You are a finger pointer too. Stop blaming the CSR and take some pride in your company. You work for Dish too, it wouldn't kill you to pick up the slack where a CSR left off. Sure it would be annoying, but do you like contributing to pissing off a customer?

For your information, I DO inform the customer about the phone requirement. However, it is indeed the sales associate's job to disclose all fees! There is no finger pointing here. What there is, is an extreme frustration on the part of technicians who have to put out fires constantly because the sales associate decided not to disclose a very important piece of information. Most often they "forget" because the know that by disclosing this, the customer is more likely to cancel the order. So they expect US to perform the bait-and-switch they set up.

Nobody is asking you to install a jack.

Yes you are. That's exactly what you said we ought to be doing. And guess what? It isn't going to happen.

Put in a phone line splitter or at least advise the customer that the 622 requires a hookup to avoid the $5/charge.

Which is exactly what we're expected to do. We carry phone splitters and couplers. If there is a phone jack in the room that can be reached without creating a safety hazard, we are expected to connect it. And we do. If there is a phone line in the room, I make every effort to have it hooked up.

I agree fully that the CSR should be telling the customer of the potential $5/charge. But they obviously aren't. I'd chew them out too. You both work for Dish, and you both failed to tell me of this charge. Obviously, others haven't been told either.

This is a huge problem. Most people aren't told about the phone line crap. Roughly 90% of customers I install for respond with "What?! They never told me about this phone line fee! I was never told I needed a phone line!" Now, while it's true some customers may be playing dumb thinking that we somehow have the power to change this, the vast majority are telling the truth. The CSRs just plain leave it out. The demands on a technician are huge, and are getting more and more as the technology becomes more complicated. We have enough work to do. More than enough. Many of us work late into the evening, working 12-14 hr days many times because of the work load. We simply DO NOT have the time or energy to re-sell the system to the customer. Every time this happens, it inevitably involves the customer calling the call center spending 20-30 minutes fighting with the CSR, while we sit there twiddling our thumbs because we have to stop what we're doing until it's all settled. We can't just go back to doing the install, because if the customer cancels, we have to rip it all out. This is a part of the CSRs job, and it's a part that rarely gets done. To sum it up: While we as technicians DO try to explain things about the phone line thing with the customer, WE ARE NOT SALESPEOPLE. We do not have access to the customer's account information, we don't know what their bill is going to be, we don't know about charges or credits on their bill. We do not have that information, and would not ever be given it. That is the reason the CSRs are there. They handle billing.

If you take the bare minimum approach to your work, 20 years from now you'll be doing the same job. People don't get ahead by doing the minimum they can do at their job.

Bare minimum?! You can't possibly be as stupid as you sound. Can you even read? The fact that we don't install phone jacks in the customer's house has nothing to do with a technician "doing the bare minimum" It has to do with the fact that - now follow me here - WE - ARE - NOT - ALLOWED - TO. We aren't trained, equipped or licensed to install phone jacks! The same way if you have substandard electrical in your house, we aren't electricians. We will not rewire out of code, 1950's two-wire, non grounded electrical outlets so that it meets Dish standards for receiver installation. And yes, we aren't allowed to plug in a Dish Network receiver to a non-grounded electrical outlet. If there isn't a grounded outlet in the room, the receiver cannot be installed there. Guess what? That's also a Dish requirement. And guess what else? Just because it's a dish requirement doesn't mean we are expected or able to bring those outlets up to code so we can install the receiver.

Stay out of my house and my company with your attitude. I only hire techs in my business that go the extra mile. If they told me "it isn't in my job description" they'd be looking for a new job.

That's all well and good. And believe me, I don't want to be anywhere near your house or your company. You sound like a pain in the ass customer, a walking trouble call waiting to happen. Let me tell you a little something about "going the extra mile" What you call "going the extra mile" is expecting the technician to do something that is no only outside of his job description, it's outside of company policy! You are expecting to get free phone outlets wired, when it is company policy that technicians are NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH THE CUSTOMER'S NID. You are expecting the technician to do something that could get him fired! That's not going "the extra mile" That's being such a selfish SOB, that you would rather a technician risk his job so you could get a free phone outlet wired. Instead of paying the phone company or a low-voltage contractor to do it, like you're supposed to. Or getting a wireless phone jack.
You know what, I was wrong. There IS some finger pointing going on here. The middle one. Pointed right at you.

Cheers.
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,381
544
suburbia
He probably didn't say anything because if there was no phone line in the room, there wasn't much he could have done about it.

Secondly, a big pet peeve of us technicians is the fact that the CSRs almost NEVER explain the phone line fee to the customer when they order. They just quote them the price as if they had a phone line connected, and expect the technician to clean up the mess when they come out. Ask any technician, we are sick to death of having the customer blow up when we mention the phone line. "What!? They never said anything about a phone line! Who has a phone line near their TV!?" The technician shouldn't be the first person the customer hears about the phone line requirement from. The CSRs deliberatly "forget" to mention the phone line thing because, the customer might decide not to order if they knew.

Enough of my frustrated ranting. :) Now to answer your other question: Why is a phone line needed?

1. It allows you to order PPV with your remote.

2. It allows Dish to get feedback from the receivers as to their health. If a receivier is having certain problems, or if the LNBF is experiencing drift, the receivers can let Dish know about it, and they can contact you to set up a trouble call before the system causes a service interruption.

3. Dish can verify that the receivers are all at the customer's residence, and not at other people's house. (account stacking)

4. As respects DVRs, it allows Dish to collect aggregate data (no customer identifyable information) about general viewing habits of DVR users to provide to people who compile ratings.

Hope that helps! :D
Sales partners are especilly guilty of the omission of the phone libne part of the pitch. Had one today. Luckily the cust. didn't have a land line as the ppoint was moot. What really drives me bastchit is when the customer is spot on about the phone line part being left out and I call Dish to get wireless jack for free , evewry so often one these idiots gives me a hard time.
I was speaking with a CSR and she got salty with me. I snapped at her and told her to do what she was told or I would refer her name and ID# to Executive Resolutions. She put her coach on the phine and he started in on me. I tld him to wait a minute and stop jumping to conclusions. I got his name and ID# and reported both these morons to ER.. BTW. I got the free wireless phone jack for my customer. A double dose of satisfaction.
BTW thanks for the info on the uses of the phone connex. I didn't know about the diagnostics(LNB drift) ....
 

skottey

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 10, 2007
1,826
0
Denver Metro, CO
For your information, I DO inform the customer about the phone requirement. However, it is indeed the sales associate's job to disclose all fees! There is no finger pointing here. What there is, is an extreme frustration on the part of technicians who have to put out fires constantly because the sales associate decided not to disclose a very important piece of information. Most often they "forget" because the know that by disclosing this, the customer is more likely to cancel the order. So they expect US to perform the bait-and-switch they set up.



Yes you are. That's exactly what you said we ought to be doing. And guess what? It isn't going to happen.



Which is exactly what we're expected to do. We carry phone splitters and couplers. If there is a phone jack in the room that can be reached without creating a safety hazard, we are expected to connect it. And we do. If there is a phone line in the room, I make every effort to have it hooked up.



This is a huge problem. Most people aren't told about the phone line crap. Roughly 90% of customers I install for respond with "What?! They never told me about this phone line fee! I was never told I needed a phone line!" Now, while it's true some customers may be playing dumb thinking that we somehow have the power to change this, the vast majority are telling the truth. The CSRs just plain leave it out. The demands on a technician are huge, and are getting more and more as the technology becomes more complicated. We have enough work to do. More than enough. Many of us work late into the evening, working 12-14 hr days many times because of the work load. We simply DO NOT have the time or energy to re-sell the system to the customer. Every time this happens, it inevitably involves the customer calling the call center spending 20-30 minutes fighting with the CSR, while we sit there twiddling our thumbs because we have to stop what we're doing until it's all settled. We can't just go back to doing the install, because if the customer cancels, we have to rip it all out. This is a part of the CSRs job, and it's a part that rarely gets done. To sum it up: While we as technicians DO try to explain things about the phone line thing with the customer, WE ARE NOT SALESPEOPLE. We do not have access to the customer's account information, we don't know what their bill is going to be, we don't know about charges or credits on their bill. We do not have that information, and would not ever be given it. That is the reason the CSRs are there. They handle billing.



Bare minimum?! You can't possibly be as stupid as you sound. Can you even read? The fact that we don't install phone jacks in the customer's house has nothing to do with a technician "doing the bare minimum" It has to do with the fact that - now follow me here - WE - ARE - NOT - ALLOWED - TO. We aren't trained, equipped or licensed to install phone jacks! The same way if you have substandard electrical in your house, we aren't electricians. We will not rewire out of code, 1950's two-wire, non grounded electrical outlets so that it meets Dish standards for receiver installation. And yes, we aren't allowed to plug in a Dish Network receiver to a non-grounded electrical outlet. If there isn't a grounded outlet in the room, the receiver cannot be installed there. Guess what? That's also a Dish requirement. And guess what else? Just because it's a dish requirement doesn't mean we are expected or able to bring those outlets up to code so we can install the receiver.



That's all well and good. And believe me, I don't want to be anywhere near your house or your company. You sound like a pain in the ass customer, a walking trouble call waiting to happen. Let me tell you a little something about "going the extra mile" What you call "going the extra mile" is expecting the technician to do something that is no only outside of his job description, it's outside of company policy! You are expecting to get free phone outlets wired, when it is company policy that technicians are NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH THE CUSTOMER'S NID. You are expecting the technician to do something that could get him fired! That's not going "the extra mile" That's being such a selfish SOB, that you would rather a technician risk his job so you could get a free phone outlet wired. Instead of paying the phone company or a low-voltage contractor to do it, like you're supposed to. Or getting a wireless phone jack.
You know what, I was wrong. There IS some finger pointing going on here. The middle one. Pointed right at you.

Cheers.

Sorry, I think you are confusing me with somebody else. I never asked for a phone jack to be installed. Please reread my posts. I specifically suggested you put in a phone splitter from the phone line in the room. There is a huge difference between a phone jack in the wall and a $1.99 Big Lots two way splitter. I would never expect you to put in a wall jack. My mention of the term phone jack was in relation to the phone jack on the back of the 622. Even if you don't hook that splitter up for the customer, I suggest that you explain the need for a phone line connected to the 622 to the customer.

Just for the record, when the installer installed my 622, I later found it plugged into a 2 prong power extension cable using an adapter to get it from 3 prong to 2 prong I had laying behind the TV, as opposed to the grounded surge protector right next to it. Just thought you'd like to know the installer did this since you said it was Dish policy not to plug the 3 prong into a 2 prong outlet.

I understand your frustration towards the CSRs. They don't do their job and you are mopping up after them constantly, understood. This happens all the time in the work place. But that is no excuse for you not to help the customer and let them know what is going on. That is where the finger pointing comes into play. Forget what the CSR did wrong and do what you know is right.

As far as you calling me stupid, you are entirely entitled to your opinion, but calling me that when you don't even know me, actually makes you look like the stupid one. Just something to think about. I have been called a lot of things in my life but stupid usually isn't one of them.
 

Tyralak

SatelliteGuys Master
Oct 21, 2003
5,702
167
Secure, Undisclosed Location
Sales partners are especilly guilty of the omission of the phone libne part of the pitch. Had one today. Luckily the cust. didn't have a land line as the ppoint was moot. What really drives me bastchit is when the customer is spot on about the phone line part being left out and I call Dish to get wireless jack for free , evewry so often one these idiots gives me a hard time.
I was speaking with a CSR and she got salty with me. I snapped at her and told her to do what she was told or I would refer her name and ID# to Executive Resolutions. She put her coach on the phine and he started in on me. I tld him to wait a minute and stop jumping to conclusions. I got his name and ID# and reported both these morons to ER.. BTW. I got the free wireless phone jack for my customer. A double dose of satisfaction.
BTW thanks for the info on the uses of the phone connex. I didn't know about the diagnostics(LNB drift) ....

Oh I agree. Sales partners are the worst. And of all the ironies, you would think AT&T - the damned PHONE company would let the customer know about the phone line requirement. They don't of course. They've been the worst offenders lately. Thankfully at DNS, they've become a bit more liberal toward our use of Phonex units.
And as far as the diagnostics go, it's a recent development. I've even seen a few work orders that have indicated on them LNBF replacement - L/O Drift. And the customer said: "Yeah, they called me and said someone needed to come out to fix a bad part."
 

johnnyholton

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Aug 11, 2007
29
0
What's funny is that ATT will soon own dish. So you E* techs will probably be installing phonelines for free. Not me, I am a subcontractor and am not liscenced to do so. No Phoneline running for me
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,381
544
suburbia
What's funny is that ATT will soon own dish. So you E* techs will probably be installing phonelines for free. Not me, I am a subcontractor and am not liscenced to do so. No Phoneline running for me
I work fr a cntractor as well . Ican tell you that we will sit by idly and allow Dish to mandate more expense and time on jobs for us either. The DNS techs may get saddled with this unfair burden( reason why I will not work for D*)
The day Dish demands we do up to an hour's work for free is the day I quit this business. They get enough out of us for free as it is.
There is a few interesting staments on the back of the Service Agreement form that none of knew were there. Theose deal with amount of coax used on jobs. The max is 200 ft. Afer that we have the right to charge extra for that. I have done so. If the customer bitches, I show them the statements. If they dpon't want to agree, they are not getting their system installed. Additionally according to Dish, only one wall fish is considered to be part of a basic install . The others are chargable. Phone lines as far as I am concerned will always be chargable. If Dish tries any funny business, they will have to find someone else to do this crap.
IMO Dish has set a precedent by not requiring phone connex.
They are stuck with it. I don't care what company buys them out.
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,381
544
suburbia
JUst one wall fish? My company requires one wall fish per tuner.
Correct. We used to think we hd to give them all away. But we have clamped down on this. Techs would go out with a full wporkload and get stuck on one jopb and have to give the rest of their work away to other techs. A big money loser there. So we decided to consider all wall fishes past the first one to be "custom work". We also consider any wiring to other structures on the property to be custom work. For example. If a customer wanted, say three tv's set up in the house and a 4th in a workshop or apartment not attached to the main structure, we will charge extra for that. Any run over 50 ft from the pole we bill additional fees. Essentially we are doing exactly what Dish allows per the Service Agreement terms. Customers are entitled to a free BASIC installation to up to four tv's.
 

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