From the providers of THIS
- Thread starter tvropro
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 14
- Views 2K
- Status
...and don't forget the soon-to-be-launched "The Other Thing" network to round out the big 3... This, That & The Other Thing! 
:up
:up...and don't forget the soon-to-be-launched "The Other Thing" network to round out the big 3... This, That & The Other Thing!
Channel 26 (Weigel) now has 6 channels.
26.1 WCIU HD
26.2 Me TV
26.3 ME TOO
26.4 THIS
26.5 THAT
26.6 FBT
Too bad they don't put the Me channels on the birds.
Those that like RTN would really enjoy them. 
...and don't forget the soon-to-be-launched "The Other Thing" network to round out the big 3... This, That & The Other Thing!
I can already envision a "Who's on First"-style comedy skit about these channels
I really feels like I'm watching digital cable!
=OR=
I really feels like I'm watching Dish Network!
=OR=
I really feels like I'm watching DirecTV!
:up!EDIT: Even closer...
It's like watching RealVideo on my TV!
Who here knows that zinger?!
Last edited:
I spoke to there engineer and he said there running variable bandwidth. 9-11 mbps on the HD 2-4 mbps on 26.2, 26.3 & 26.4 and the rest are bitstarved to death.
Wall of text to follow
Most of the HD channels were capped at 15 Mbps (KATU/ABC=720p, KOIN/CBS=1080i, KGW/NBC=1080i, KPTV/Fox=720p, KRCW/CW=1080i and KPDX/MNTV=720p)
KPTV/Fox and KPDX/MNTV have no subchannels or services.
KOIN/CBS has no subchannels but serves TVGOS data
At the time the TBN mux (5 SD channels) was a reasonable 3 Mbps per channel except for JCTV getting 4.5 Mbps when it needed it. (Music Videos, lol)
Oh and EDIT to my above post!
KATU/This gets a constant 3 Mbps
KGW/NBC Wx was getting 1.5-2 Mbps but got bumped up to 3 due to rediculously frequent macroblocking of the picture.
The PBS channel, OPB is our star on how bitrate matters terribly by showing what happens when you don't give enough to each video feed.
PBS-HD gets 9-12 Mbps and is soft looking HD
PBS-SD gets 3-4.5 Mbps
PBS-Create got a max of 2.5 and always looked like a fuzzy VHS tape
We had a channel called "The Oregon Channel" which showed state related programming or international news.
It was lucky to get above 1.5 Mbps up to 2 Mbps and looked like a internet stream, not TV.
Then OPB decided to add an audio channel with a low-bitrate slate video. I never got a number but most of the time the stuff got unreadable.
So they axed the Oregon channel and mixed it with PBS-Create and called it OPBplus.
They put 2 audio streams (the FM station and the HD-Radio station subchannel) and a 750kbps slate up (readble this time)
So...
PBS-HD 10Mbps
PBS-SD 3.5Mbps
OPBplus 2.5 Mbps
OPB-FM 1.5Mbps
The ION station was well tuned and look great across all 4 SD channels.
3.5 Mbps on all channels
Then they launched ION-HD (720p)
And those subchannels started to look like OPB.
All so they could show "grainy" upscales (I'm talking 40% grain!) of NCIS, Mama's Family, older movies FFS! Geeze SD 480p flagged 16x9 would look the same if not better!
Interesting! Last February when I checked the channels around me, all of them had 2Mbps of null packets.
Most of the HD channels were capped at 15 Mbps (KATU/ABC=720p, KOIN/CBS=1080i, KGW/NBC=1080i, KPTV/Fox=720p, KRCW/CW=1080i and KPDX/MNTV=720p)
KPTV/Fox and KPDX/MNTV have no subchannels or services.
KOIN/CBS has no subchannels but serves TVGOS data
At the time the TBN mux (5 SD channels) was a reasonable 3 Mbps per channel except for JCTV getting 4.5 Mbps when it needed it. (Music Videos, lol)
Oh and EDIT to my above post!
KATU/This gets a constant 3 Mbps
KGW/NBC Wx was getting 1.5-2 Mbps but got bumped up to 3 due to rediculously frequent macroblocking of the picture.
The PBS channel, OPB is our star on how bitrate matters terribly by showing what happens when you don't give enough to each video feed.
PBS-HD gets 9-12 Mbps and is soft looking HD
PBS-SD gets 3-4.5 Mbps
PBS-Create got a max of 2.5 and always looked like a fuzzy VHS tape
We had a channel called "The Oregon Channel" which showed state related programming or international news.
It was lucky to get above 1.5 Mbps up to 2 Mbps and looked like a internet stream, not TV.
Then OPB decided to add an audio channel with a low-bitrate slate video. I never got a number but most of the time the stuff got unreadable.
So they axed the Oregon channel and mixed it with PBS-Create and called it OPBplus.
They put 2 audio streams (the FM station and the HD-Radio station subchannel) and a 750kbps slate up (readble this time)
So...
PBS-HD 10Mbps
PBS-SD 3.5Mbps
OPBplus 2.5 Mbps
OPB-FM 1.5Mbps
The ION station was well tuned and look great across all 4 SD channels.
3.5 Mbps on all channels
Then they launched ION-HD (720p)
And those subchannels started to look like OPB.
All so they could show "grainy" upscales (I'm talking 40% grain!
) of NCIS, Mama's Family, older movies FFS! Geeze SD 480p flagged 16x9 would look the same if not better!
Last edited:
Even if they use Statistical Multiplexing like their engineer told you, tvropro, in my not so expert opinion this is unaceptable, unless the last 2 channels are just a set of still pictures or something like even the weather channel that people only watch for a couple of minutes. The regulator , in this case the FCC , should mandate or regulate the standards to follow when it comes to picture quality. If you want a license to operate a TV station then you have to meet the standards otherwise you should not be allowed to broadcast anything. But anyways , I was born in a communist regime , so maybe that is why I feel so strongly about it, lol.
In our area we even have channels that broadcast only 2 subchannels , they are both the same programming ,1 is HD the other one is SD. Why waste bandwith like this? (acctually the remaining bandwith within the 6 Mhz could not be used by anyone else anyways but ...). All converter box and ATSC tuners are capable of decoding any of the 18 formats specified on the ATSC standard , therefore any potential viewer could watch the HD channel on their SD TV with the proper converter box or stand along tuner.
On 1 hand TV stations cramming 6 channels on 6 Mhz on the other hand , they are just repeting the same show in SD format and therefore wasting the bandwith. As a communist will put it, this is Subutilisation of the Available Capacities at its best.
This is the never ending story, soon even Cable or Satellite pay providers will look better than OTA on some channels.
It appears to me that this TV stations are run by rookies or people who simply do not have the technical knowledge of what they are doing. Do not get me wrong, I appreciate the hard work and the Can and Will do spirit of the american people but in this case I am not happy with having someone who, yes eventhough indeed is trying to make something work to the best of his ability to acomplish that end up with such poor results for the tv viewer. (this post is way too cryptic even for me , lol). I would rather have the FCC tell everyone what exactly to do in every TV station ... , but heck , then this would be communism and then I would have to raft away to another country , lol.
In our area we even have channels that broadcast only 2 subchannels , they are both the same programming ,1 is HD the other one is SD. Why waste bandwith like this? (acctually the remaining bandwith within the 6 Mhz could not be used by anyone else anyways but ...). All converter box and ATSC tuners are capable of decoding any of the 18 formats specified on the ATSC standard , therefore any potential viewer could watch the HD channel on their SD TV with the proper converter box or stand along tuner.
On 1 hand TV stations cramming 6 channels on 6 Mhz on the other hand , they are just repeting the same show in SD format and therefore wasting the bandwith. As a communist will put it, this is Subutilisation of the Available Capacities at its best.
This is the never ending story, soon even Cable or Satellite pay providers will look better than OTA on some channels.
It appears to me that this TV stations are run by rookies or people who simply do not have the technical knowledge of what they are doing. Do not get me wrong, I appreciate the hard work and the Can and Will do spirit of the american people but in this case I am not happy with having someone who, yes eventhough indeed is trying to make something work to the best of his ability to acomplish that end up with such poor results for the tv viewer. (this post is way too cryptic even for me , lol). I would rather have the FCC tell everyone what exactly to do in every TV station ... , but heck , then this would be communism and then I would have to raft away to another country , lol.
On the HD with SD subchannel subject
For a while I was playing with antennas to see if I could get away with an indoor set.
When reception was teetering on the edge of the digital cliff, the HD portion was unwatchable, audio almost non-existent. Yet the SD was clipping along mostly fine.
As for the FCC, until this year they still had 256kbps classified as a "high-speed" Internet connection. So yes, the FCC moves slowly, as in 10 years slow.
For a while I was playing with antennas to see if I could get away with an indoor set.
When reception was teetering on the edge of the digital cliff, the HD portion was unwatchable, audio almost non-existent. Yet the SD was clipping along mostly fine.
As for the FCC, until this year they still had 256kbps classified as a "high-speed" Internet connection. So yes, the FCC moves slowly, as in 10 years slow.
It's all about the $$$ they don't care that there craming 10 lbs in a 5 pound sack. Just look at NPS on G3, Dish, and Direct.
There's one in Northern MN that is like that
KRII
11-1 NBC HD
11-2 CBS SD
11-3 CW SD
11-4 My Network SD
11-5 weather radar
KRII
11-1 NBC HD
11-2 CBS SD
11-3 CW SD
11-4 My Network SD
11-5 weather radar
- Status
