grounding to a copper water pipe

[Lem52]

I have had Directv for over a year. I hadn't been under my house for quite some time and recently I went under to inspect several things. I noticed the directv system is grounded to a copper water pipe by about a 10 guage wire, Is this proper and should the grounding be grounded at the dish instead?

The dish isn't close to the main ground of the house as its on the opposite end.

Would Directv charge me to redo the grounding if they did it? It was installed by their installer.

Lem52

 

[Jimbo]

I have had Directv for over a year. I hadn't been under my house for quite some time and recently I went under to inspect several things. I noticed the directv system is grounded to a copper water pipe by about a 10 guage wire, Is this proper and should the grounding be grounded at the dish instead?

The dish isn't close to the main ground of the house as its on the opposite end.

Would Directv charge me to redo the grounding if they did it? It was installed by their installer.

Lem52

Copper water pipes have been used for a ground for many many years.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's been done for a long time.

 

[ClemSole]

The copper pipes is the proper way to ground the D* system, the copper pipes go into the gound a lot farther then putting in a ground rod and they provide a better ground. The distence from where the ground connection is made has no effect so don't wory about it.

 

[wildbill129]

The copper pipes is the proper way to ground the D* system, the copper pipes go into the gound a lot farther then putting in a ground rod and they provide a better ground. The distence from where the ground connection is made has no effect so don't wory about it.

Except grounding to cold water pipes is no longer allowed, unless the connection is made within 5 feet of where the main enters the building from the street. So unless the pipe coming out of the ground is the main line from the street, it isn't a valid ground point. The problem is houses are using PVC and PEX and the continuous copper ground is a thing of the past.

To the OP, If your house has all copper piping, and there is a tie from the ground rod to the cold water piping, you are fine. (And you have no PEX or PVC mixed in with the copper)

 

[Jimbo]

Except grounding to cold water pipes is no longer allowed, unless the connection is made within 5 feet of where the main enters the building from the street. So unless the pipe coming out of the ground is the main line from the street, it isn't a valid ground point. The problem is houses are using PVC and PEX and the continuous copper ground is a thing of the past.

To the OP, If your house has all copper piping, and there is a tie from the ground rod to the cold water piping, you are fine. (And you have no PEX or PVC mixed in with the copper)

Have you ever looked to see how expensive the PEX stuff is ?
Actually I should rephrase that, the TOOLS to work with the PEX is.

I have always done copper, but someone asked about the PEX last time I was doing a job and we looked into it and the tools are about $ 100 each to use the stuff.

 

[wildbill129]

Have you ever looked to see how expensive the PEX stuff is ?
Actually I should rephrase that, the TOOLS to work with the PEX is.

I have always done copper, but someone asked about the PEX last time I was doing a job and we looked into it and the tools are about $ 100 each to use the stuff.

Yah, they are. PEX is really big here in California. It's about the only thing used in new construction now. The good news is, rental companies have the tools now, so for do it yourselfers it's not to bad. I remember the first time I saw it, I was amazed. It's expensive, but the labor savings vs. copper easily makes up the difference...

 

[Jimbo]

Yah, they are. PEX is really big here in California. It's about the only thing used in new construction now. The good news is, rental companies have the tools now, so for do it yourselfers it's not to bad. I remember the first time I saw it, I was amazed. It's expensive, but the labor savings vs. copper easily makes up the difference...

I'll stick with copper ...

My house I flipped, last year I replaced ALL the copper the week I took possesion, around Christmas last year someone broke in and stole it all, I considered PEX then, till I saw the price for tools.
I put in the tried and true copper again

 

[raoul5788]

I'll stick with copper ...

My house I flipped, last year I replaced ALL the copper the week I took possesion, around Christmas last year someone broke in and stole it all, I considered PEX then, till I saw the price for tools.
I put in the tried and true copper again

Copper is tried and true here in the US, but PEX has been used in Europe for decades. Not only is it much cheaper than copper, but MUCH faster to install. It handles freezing temperatures better, also. The cost of the tools is more than made up in the reduced cost of the materials and time saved, plus you own the tools when you are done. It's a no brainer in my book, but some say I have no brains!

 

[harshness]

Have you ever looked to see how expensive the PEX stuff is ?

Have you ever heard of PEX failing (I've seen frozen PEX expand to double its nominal size without splitting)? Have you ever seen PEX close up when kinked?

PEX doesn't conduct heat, water hammer or noise as well as copper, but that's a good thing.

 

[Jimbo]

Copper is tried and true here in the US, but PEX has been used in Europe for decades. Not only is it much cheaper than copper, but MUCH faster to install. It handles freezing temperatures better, also. The cost of the tools is more than made up in the reduced cost of the materials and time saved, plus you own the tools when you are done. It's a no brainer in my book, but some say I have no brains!

It's a no brainer if you do this often, working with plumbing, but it's not very economical when your only doing one house.

 

[Jimbo]

Have you ever heard of PEX failing (I've seen frozen PEX expand to double its nominal size without splitting)? Have you ever seen PEX close up when kinked?

PEX doesn't conduct heat, water hammer or noise as well as copper, but that's a good thing.

Ok

 

[Jimbo]

I'm not spending $ 300 for tools I would use one or twice over 5 years.

 

[wildbill129]

I'm not spending $ 300 for tools I would use one or twice over 5 years.

That's why you rent them....

 

[harshness]

It's a no brainer if you do this often, working with plumbing, but it's not very economical when your only doing one house.

If you're doing your own house, you can do it with PEX once or you can redo parts of it once in awhile with copper.

I get the distinct feeling that you haven't priced copper tubing recently.

Last I checked, 1/2" PEX sells for about $0.28/foot and copper is going for $2.40/foot. If anywhere near accurate, that's a 757% premium for copper.

Break even for lineal feet would be somewhere around 141.5' by my calculations if you bought the crimper outright for $300. PEX fittings are quite a bit more money, but fewer are required.

Regardless, the NEC says that copper tubing no longer meets code more than 5' beyond the entry point (and if you use it as a ground, it doesn't last as long), so it doesn't make much sense to depend on being able to use it.

 

[Jimbo]

That's why you rent them....

Did not know you could rent them.
Instead of walking to the garage and getting a torch and soldier I need to rent tools till I decide to buy them.

 

[Jimbo]

If you're doing your own house, you can do it with PEX once or you can redo parts of it once in awhile with copper.

I get the distinct feeling that you haven't priced copper tubing recently.

Last I checked, 1/2" PEX sells for about $0.28/foot and copper is going for $2.40/foot. If anywhere near accurate, that's a 757% premium for copper.

Break even for lineal feet would be somewhere around 141.5' by my calculations if you bought the crimper outright for $300. PEX fittings are quite a bit more money, but fewer are required.

Regardless, the NEC says that copper tubing no longer meets code more than 5' beyond the entry point (and if you use it as a ground, it doesn't last as long), so it doesn't make much sense to depend on being able to use it.

Your right, this was about Grounding
They all are valid points, thanks to PEX and a few other products potentially breaking the connections of copper thruout the home.

Had the PEX stuff not interrupted the set up, you would still be able to ground your products to the copper anywhere in the home.