Harmonic Encoder Improvements? (Feedback Need it)
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DarrellP....I believe you. Sean wanted us to give feedback to the engineers and I think that we have done that very well. However, it would be nice for the opposite feedback from VOOM.
If it wasn't for the fact that many of you also have been dissappointed, I would have thrown my set out the window. (not really) The comment about it looking somewhere between SD and HDlite I think is a fair and fits my observation to a "T."
If it wasn't for the fact that many of you also have been dissappointed, I would have thrown my set out the window. (not really) The comment about it looking somewhere between SD and HDlite I think is a fair and fits my observation to a "T."
gutter said:
That is a perfect analogy of the PQ. I sure hope it goes back to what it was , but sadly I don't think it will.
What is very odd is while channel surfing, I'll happen across a channel whose picture quality looks like better HD quality (not lite).
So it appears that it can be done, but isn't for some reason.
So it appears that it can be done, but isn't for some reason.
I watched The Food Channel tonight on my pj (first time). I have my daughter so we tuned in the Pizza Challenge, and I thought at first it looked pretty good for SD then after about 10 minutes into the show, the PQ degraded, it appeared more compressed and putty-like. Weird. I think they are playing ring-around-the-rosey with the encoders to make us think things are improving. I hope I'm wrong but I can't understand why one channel can change while watching it. I've seen PQ shift on the same channel between shows, so what the Frick is going on in that control room? Enquiring minds want to know.
I still would like to do a coordinated viewing of several people(though 2 might be enough). I have been developing some idea's but first I need to confirm that all people aren't seeing the same errors at the same time. If anybody is interested I think this could give some insight(though If I'm right the problem is harder to solve than just adjusting the encoders), but at least we could understand the problem. If nothing else we could see if it is true that some are not having problems and others are.
Patrick
Patrick
The thing is that so far I don't think that is true. Some people are having problems and some aren't. IMHO these are not caused by people seeing the problems and not recognizing them. Yes if we are all seeing the same signal at same quyality etc, the picture will display the same. But I suspect that due to the compression that the slightest change in the quality of signal is causing a problem. Since people have differnet conditions for receiving at different places it makes sense that there will be differences in picture, even if the originating signal is the same. For example yesterday morning "sunrise" on DHD was only the second time I've had any problems and was the first time it was truly horrible. I simple propose a way to prove one way or the other and so far nobody seems interested.
Patrick
Patrick
Digital is digital, regardless of how it's received. The bits do not reorganize themselves into a different pattern based on how you receive the signal. I am in the Pacific NW using a 24" dish and though it is raining cats and dogs this morning, my signal strength remains around 84. The signal will NOT degrade until it reaches 72 where it starts breaking up.
I still hold to my belief that those having no issues are new to HD or just ignorant of what they are seeing. There's nothing wrong with that, it just makes Voom believe they have a great picture if people are posting that and they do not have a great picture ALL THE TIME. It varies all over the board and has not been consistent lately.
Patrick, I like your idea. Scott should have a live chat just for this purpose and we can all tune in the same channel and report back what we see.
What do you say Scott, can you arrange a live chat for this purpose?
I still hold to my belief that those having no issues are new to HD or just ignorant of what they are seeing. There's nothing wrong with that, it just makes Voom believe they have a great picture if people are posting that and they do not have a great picture ALL THE TIME. It varies all over the board and has not been consistent lately.
Patrick, I like your idea. Scott should have a live chat just for this purpose and we can all tune in the same channel and report back what we see.
What do you say Scott, can you arrange a live chat for this purpose?
DarrellP said:
I concur, the signal is digtal, we all receive the same exact package of binary data, the STB decodes the exact same package of binary data and changes that into exactly the same signals on the component and DVI conectors. The TV just displays what is input on those connectors.
That's not to say that some TVs do some "post processing" on that signal but they are not going to get rid of skeeters, blotches, and pixelization because that is what is input to the TV.
The PQ has been pretty good lately except there are still more skeeters and motion artifacts than before the new encoders. However, to see them you have to know what you are looking for and you have to of had Voom previously to the new encoders.
I just woke up, and was surprised to see how bad the pq was today on ESPN. The PQ was terrbile on this channel and on the discovery channel.
Thanks for the reply Darrell. It helped and answered what I was wondering. Mainly if the new encoders have made the signal suspersensitive to changes in signal strength. But if you don't have problems until 72, that rules that out. Oh well I hope they get it all fixed soon. Though it would be neat if they could anounce when they are tweaking a channel and we all watched and thus could see the effects together.
Patrick
Patrick
astrofan, I've got to agree with you (but then I sometimes tend to over-analyse 
, huh, Vurbano? ).
But I think it would serve an educational purpose for newbies (of which I are still one!) as well as a diagnostic tool (just in case there are differences in what the STB delivers).
I'm game for trying to get a group "groupe" (regarding the channels, only ) together.
I'd be really happy if some of the more knowledgeable folks like Vurbano, DarrellP, gutter, and others might jump in and help us understand what to look for and how to describe it.
When you're new to this, everything is wonderful! I saw what I thought was (in my terms) the WOW! Factor last summer. Since I've been re-installed, I see it now and again, but not all the time. Since there are so many factors that can contribute to it, I would find a coordinated approach helpful in learning to judge and describe the picture I see. Vicki
, huh, Vurbano? ).But I think it would serve an educational purpose for newbies (of which I are still one!) as well as a diagnostic tool (just in case there are differences in what the STB delivers).
I'm game for trying to get a group "groupe" (regarding the channels, only
) together. I'd be really happy if some of the more knowledgeable folks like Vurbano, DarrellP, gutter, and others might jump in and help us understand what to look for and how to describe it.
When you're new to this, everything is wonderful! I saw what I thought was (in my terms) the WOW! Factor last summer. Since I've been re-installed, I see it now and again, but not all the time. Since there are so many factors that can contribute to it, I would find a coordinated approach helpful in learning to judge and describe the picture I see. Vicki
It is better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a pig satisfied...Bullsh!t!
Rant Mode ON:
I'll bet my left nut Socrates didn't have to view bitrate starved HD - nor put up with some a$$hole for more than a month who has been attempting to repair his Mits CRT RPTV - nor listen to his a$$hole eyes supervisor, with the reading and verbal comprehension of a 3rd grader, tell him the PQ (on VOOM mind you) is the best he has ever seen and is well within factory specs - and then tell him the reason that Cable DTV looks like pixalation hellation to the maxation is because of a weak cable signal in spite of telling a$$hole eyes the cable is spilt using a three-way splitter in the wiring close and all lines were measured at 30db and the specific HDTV in question was working perfectly just moments before numbnuts a$$hole installed a new CRT...and created an electronic 'pulse' on the screen as well as affecting the integrated QAM/ATSC tuner - meanwhile other HDTVs in the house work fine on Cable (not that Socrates ever watches it except for the fact both HDNets are in-the-clear with along with HD locals because Cable is the only broadband option in his area of more than 60k people in the 8th largest DMA in the country...but that's another story since he has been waiting 5+ years for DSL and he has been at the mercy of Adelphia cable as his sole source of broadband internet service - and after Socrates drags down a 90 pound 26" Samsung Dynaflat CRT to show a$$hole and a$$hole eyes it's not the freakin' cable, it's the result of a$$hole, he is told to place yet another service call.
So many stupid people...so little time!
Rant Mode: OFF
And you ask me why I drink? God help us all. Tonight I'm going to kill 10 IQ points and then rub salt in my eyes so I don't notice how sh!tty the Mits looks these days. As much as I love the PQ on my Sony LCD RPTV, the Mits CRT RPTV would always give me that little something extra. Anyway, I would suggest all of you lower your expectations since tweedle-dee and tweedle-dummy will never see nor comprehend what you see and comprehend. As far as VOOM PQ goes, it's pretty darn good at time, but it is certainly not as good as it was in the past and not up to the high standards of many here on the VOOM Forum. I guess PQ affects the pallet differently and each of us has a unique gag reflex.
It is far better to be a pig satisfied than to be......well, you fill in the blank.
Rant Mode ON:
I'll bet my left nut Socrates didn't have to view bitrate starved HD - nor put up with some a$$hole for more than a month who has been attempting to repair his Mits CRT RPTV - nor listen to his a$$hole eyes supervisor, with the reading and verbal comprehension of a 3rd grader, tell him the PQ (on VOOM mind you) is the best he has ever seen and is well within factory specs - and then tell him the reason that Cable DTV looks like pixalation hellation to the maxation is because of a weak cable signal in spite of telling a$$hole eyes the cable is spilt using a three-way splitter in the wiring close and all lines were measured at 30db and the specific HDTV in question was working perfectly just moments before numbnuts a$$hole installed a new CRT...and created an electronic 'pulse' on the screen as well as affecting the integrated QAM/ATSC tuner - meanwhile other HDTVs in the house work fine on Cable (not that Socrates ever watches it except for the fact both HDNets are in-the-clear with along with HD locals because Cable is the only broadband option in his area of more than 60k people in the 8th largest DMA in the country...but that's another story since he has been waiting 5+ years for DSL and he has been at the mercy of Adelphia cable as his sole source of broadband internet service - and after Socrates drags down a 90 pound 26" Samsung Dynaflat CRT to show a$$hole and a$$hole eyes it's not the freakin' cable, it's the result of a$$hole, he is told to place yet another service call.
So many stupid people...so little time!
Rant Mode: OFF
And you ask me why I drink? God help us all. Tonight I'm going to kill 10 IQ points and then rub salt in my eyes so I don't notice how sh!tty the Mits looks these days. As much as I love the PQ on my Sony LCD RPTV, the Mits CRT RPTV would always give me that little something extra. Anyway, I would suggest all of you lower your expectations since tweedle-dee and tweedle-dummy will never see nor comprehend what you see and comprehend. As far as VOOM PQ goes, it's pretty darn good at time, but it is certainly not as good as it was in the past and not up to the high standards of many here on the VOOM Forum. I guess PQ affects the pallet differently and each of us has a unique gag reflex.
It is far better to be a pig satisfied than to be......well, you fill in the blank.
riffjim4069 said:
:clap 
Great post, I was ROTFLMAO at this one.Vicki, I would love to be in on a chat and see if we can come to an agreement to what we are seeing on Voom.
Scott!! Whip it up, Dude.
I will have to run between my HT and bedroom though to post, it's about an L shape and about 40' but I can manage.Well I think DarrelP hit it right when he describes the facial notes as looking modeled or blotched. When the entire screen looks soft with less contrast. ( I even have my contrast set to 100%) When instead of being able to count each individual blade of grass in a field, it looks so soft that you have a hard time seeing one from another.
Does this mean I am ready to give up VOOMing. Of course not. VOOM will give me up before I give it up. However, I would like some feedback to know that this condition is temporary and what they are doing about it. As it is right now, I don't want to show it off to others so the new refer program I would not be able to take part in until I feel comfortable with the end result. the HD just looks lighter than lite. As far as SD is concerned, it could be better but it is SD so who cares?
Hope this answers what you wanted Vicki.
Does this mean I am ready to give up VOOMing. Of course not. VOOM will give me up before I give it up. However, I would like some feedback to know that this condition is temporary and what they are doing about it. As it is right now, I don't want to show it off to others so the new refer program I would not be able to take part in until I feel comfortable with the end result. the HD just looks lighter than lite. As far as SD is concerned, it could be better but it is SD so who cares?
Hope this answers what you wanted Vicki.
