HD/BD copy protection blues...

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diogen

Thread Starter
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Apr 16, 2007
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Since this is not only about BD+ anymore, but also about the latest update to AACS (MKB v.4) present in both formats, I thought this section would be more appropriate.

Browsing through SlySoft (AnyDVD HD creators) forums, this would be the state of affairs in HD/BD-backup land:

1. AACS not only replaced license keys to software players, but switched to MKB v.4
2. All recently released movies, HD and BD, use it. FOX titles also have BD+.
3. PowerDVD/WinDVD offer updates to their players only on request.
4. PowerDVD refuses to play HD/BD formated streams from the hard drive.
5. WinDVD refuses to play any BD disk when AnyDVD HD is detected running (probably done by BD+).

SlySoft representative went on record to say that it will take about 2 weeks to work around MKB v.4 (v.3 was defeated
in one day) and about 6-8 weeks to deal with BD+ (the kernel has to be rewritten to incorporate a BD+ virtual machine).

In the mean time, on Friday they updated their software that is claimed to incorporated now some AI elements...

Diogen.
 
chicagofilms

chicagofilms

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Jun 15, 2004
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Some day the studios will realize DRM is pointless and only serves to piss off the honest people. Pirates will always pirate, and the honest folk pay the price of inconvenience.
 
ocnier

ocnier

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Jun 28, 2004
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Since this is not only about BD+ anymore, but also about the latest update to AACS (MKB v.4) present in both formats, I thought this section would be more appropriate.

Browsing through SlySoft (AnyDVD HD creators) forums, this would be the state of affairs in HD/BD-backup land:

1. AACS not only replaced license keys to software players, but switched to MKB v.4
2. All recently released movies, HD and BD, use it. FOX titles also have BD+.
3. PowerDVD/WinDVD offer updates to their players only on request.
4. PowerDVD refuses to play HD/BD formated streams from the hard drive.
5. WinDVD refuses to play any BD disk when AnyDVD HD is detected running (probably done by BD+).

SlySoft representative went on record to say that it will take about 2 weeks to work around MKB v.4 (v.3 was defeated
in one day) and about 6-8 weeks to deal with BD+ (the kernel has to be rewritten to incorporate a BD+ virtual machine).

In the mean time, on Friday they updated their software that is claimed to incorporated now some AI elements...

Diogen.


Diogen, I feel your pain. God, I sometimes really hate hollywood.
 
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diogen

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 16, 2007
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There are some new developments on the PC playback front (or at least I think they have something to do with it)...

Microsoft was complaining that HD/BD hacking vulnerability is primarily based on the fact that XP doesn't have PMP (Protected Media Path).
The latter would make it much harder to sniff memory/bus to find the keys. Vista has it (and uses it with CableCard), but it seems to be to late to ban XP as playback platform.

Meet Win XP Service Pack 3!
- Microsoft Windows XP SP3 beta: Full Review - Reviews by PC Magazine
Again, though, there's nothing actually new here as far as the Windows world goes. Vista has already eliminated the need for the product key during installation, and it has already included the Kernel Mode Cryptographic Module, the Network Access Protection module, and improved black hole router detection. In other words, the new features in Windows XP Service Pack 3 are actually taken from Vista (and associated OSs such as Windows Server 2008). It's entirely possible that Microsoft will continue to backport specific features from Vista, especially since XP threatens to hang around for a while, but don't expect to see anything approaching a full Vista implementation in the aging OS.

Looks like this will be the next bastion to attempt to stop hackers.
XP won't be banned, but at some point the players (PowerDVD, WinDVD, Nero, Arcsoft) won't play unless SP3 is installed (i.e. PMP activated).
AACS keys were just changed. The next change can't happen earlier than in 90 days. Could be exactly after SP3 is released...

Diogen.
 
ocnier

ocnier

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Burner prices will come down, but media prices for the blank discs won't any time soon. I just back up my movies that I buy to hard disk and file them away. This keeps the discs from damage and keeps my living room from getting cluttered. The nice thing about hard drive back up is that is format immaterial all you need is the reader and thats it.
 
D

diogen

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 16, 2007
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It looks like a crack developed in MKB v.4 armor.
SlySoft updated its AnyDVD HD software and some of the movies (e.g. Evan Almighty) can be ripped,
while others (Transformers) still not. But it looks like the main hurdle is behind them...

AnyDVD seems to be specifically targeted by the the hidef players that refuse to play anything when it is running.

No word about BD+ yet...

Diogen.
 
navychop

navychop

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It'll be an interesting lawsuit......
 
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diogen

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 16, 2007
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Another beta (AnyDVD HD 6.1.9) and according to a SlySoft team member they are just about there...
AnyDVD (HD) 6.1.9.0 beta - SlySoft Forum

But it would be even more interesting when BD+ falls...
Reading FOX press releases bitching about and threatening hackers - priceless...:D

Diogen.
 
D

diogen

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 16, 2007
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A few updates on the copy protection front:

1. SlySoft claims BD+ is broken and they are in the process of fine-tuning the hack::up
We already found a way to crack BD+ and we have just turned to fine-tuning.
I should really think about hiring a bodyguard now, since this product won't please everybody.
CDRLabs.com - SlySoft Defeats Latest HD DVD And Blu-ray Copy Protections - News

2. According to Amir, the final AACS License (in the works for over a year) will have audio watermarks.
It will be inserted in the audio stream during the encode (unlike BD+) and should be undetectable
by ear and/or equipment to a point, that even reencoding the audio track won't be able to hide it from the player.
AVS Forum - View Single Post - Industry Insiders Master Q&A thread IV: ONLY Questions to Insiders

3. Although there was never an official announcement, many in this hidef hobby believed that the ICT
(Image Constraint Token - cutting the vertical resolution of hidef DVD's in half to 540p when playing over analog out)
won't be implemented for years... This turned out to be wishful thinking. Some German hidef DVDs use ICT.
ICT - Image Constraint Token removal? - SlySoft Forum

The good news is, AnyDVD already takes care of that... :)

4. According to Alex (AVS), the most offending feature of BD+ - its capability to run native code -
is implemented only on standalone players.
Full bore Run Native is limited to dedicated standalone devices.
I guess bricking a PC carries a little bit more legal baggage than bircking a dedicated device.
wink.gif
AVS Forum - View Single Post - For the Record: BD+ has NOT been Cracked!!

Diogen.
 
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diogen

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 16, 2007
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So far it looks like BD+ is a paper tiger...:)

As reported, there are no problems ripping the few BD+ movies to the hard drive.
The resulting files are still BD+ encrypted but AACS-free and can be played by BD+ authorized
players (PowerDVD) from the hard drive (!). Very much like what Managed Copy was suppose to be...:D

This answers the question about the sequence the video goes through: [Encoding]-[BD+ encryption]-[AACS-encryption].
Speculations that BD+ might be the outer layer of encryption turned out to be wrong.

Diogen.
 
D

diogen

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 16, 2007
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Cyberlink got the memo...:)

The latest update refuses to play HD/BD from the hard drive!
SlySoft Forum - View Single Post - New PowerDVD Ultra build 3319f
(AVS got the whole thread removed).

The old version stil does the job.
But when in ~90 days the AACS keys are updated again, this might stop.

Now accelerated development of a free player can be expected.

Diogen.
 
Pepper

Pepper

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Thanks to slysoft for attempting to protect our rights to fair use!
 
D

diogen

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 16, 2007
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Another update: SlySoft implemented a full-scale decryption oracle
6.1.9.8 2007 11 12
  • New (HD DVD & Blu-ray): Support for all MKBv4 titles (requires internet connection)
Here is what it means
Can blacklisting be avoided? Here’s one way an attacker might try: He could keep his device keys secret and create a web site where people can upload header information from discs they want to decrypt. Then he would use his device keys to extract the title keys for those headers and post the title keys back to the site—a sophisticated attacker might automate this process. Cryptographers call this kind of site a decryption oracle.
Freedom to Tinker » Blog Archive » AACS: Blacklisting, Oracles, and Traitor Tracing
Since events develop almost by the textbok, traitor tracing will be the answer to the oracle
As it turns out, the designers of AACS anticipated decryption oracles, so the system includes a way to track down and blacklist the device keys used to operate them. This process is called “traitor tracing,” and it works roughly like this: The central authority creates a phony disc header that can be decrypted by about half of the possible devices. (They just need the header, so there’s no need to press an actual disc.) They upload this to the oracle and see whether it can find the title key. The result lets the authority narrow down which devices the oracle’s keys might have come from. The authority repeats the process, creating a new header that will reduce the set of suspects by half again. With a few of these probes, the authority can home in on the oracle’s device keys.

SlySoft must know a bunch of device keys if they went for this... :)
Until all of those (device keys) are compromised and revoked, non-BD+ using HD/BDs are hacked for good...

Diogen.
 
vurbano

vurbano

On Double Secret Probation
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Apr 1, 2004
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When burner prices get at a reasonable level, will this program allow me to copy the movies? If so, I'll definitely be buying it when i get my BD burner sometime next year.
The better option is to rip to hard drives and play from HTPC. Who wants to get up and walk to a player anyway to put in a disc? HD's are cheap and there is no burner cost or outrageous standalone player costs. :D
 
allargon

allargon

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 2, 2007
1,642
26
Austin, TX
PowerDVD refusal to play BD+ protected content from the hard drive might be not that important soon...

From a SlySoft team member here
SlySoft Forum - View Single Post - Slysoft Media Player

Diogen.

Good. PowerDVD has held us all captive for awhile. There's no way I would bother building a HTPC right now depending on PowerDVD. How long did it take them to play BD+ titles? They enforce that stupid HDCP connection crap. So, you have to have an expensive monitor, an expensive video card, an expensive sound card only to be told that your expensive sound card still isn't good enough and you are not allowed to listen to high definition audio.

PowerDVD isn't even cheap.

Grrr! :mad:
 
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