HD-Lite - Senators Have Been Contacted
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GeorgeLV said:
yea but thats a horse of a diffrent color as that was the programs native resolution. Most HD that airs on all the channels that we view it on today are nativly shot in 1920 X 1080 I/P or 1280 X 720P.
I said it before - I'll say it again.
You have a MUCH BETTER CHANCE of getting your State Attorney General to go after them for fraud.
And we know that Elliot Spitzer in NY has looked for ways to make headlines to further his political ambitions.
And why is this not in the HDTV section?
You have a MUCH BETTER CHANCE of getting your State Attorney General to go after them for fraud.
And we know that Elliot Spitzer in NY has looked for ways to make headlines to further his political ambitions.
And why is this not in the HDTV section?
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I think it should be look at from this point of view. DirecTV says they offer HBO HD and we know that HBO HD sends their signal out in the format of 1080i or 1920x1080i. So because DirecTV claims they offer HBO HD the fact that they offer HBOs 1920x1080i HD feed in 1280x1024i that seems to be fruad. I consider this no different than you going to an Imax theater and pay extra for the ticket to find out your only going to see it in the regular movie theater. But this is indeed a channel you really aren't paying extra for so lets instead look at HDnet as you the customer are paying to see true 1080i which is 1920x1080i and not 1280x1024. DirecTV should be required to inform their customers at the point of sale that these HD channels are broadcasting on DirecTV in a lower resolution than what is provided by the network itself.
It would be like going online and seeing an ad for a DVD movie only to find out that they mailed you a VHS movie. I really don't consider this any different because chances are your paying more for that DVD compared to the VHS so you would be ticked as heck if they sent you a VHS tape instead of that DVD disc.
Edit....let me ask you this....how many of you would be ticked if you payed 500 bucks for an HD DVD player and you go online to buy an HD DVD movie and charge you 25 bucks for it. Now what if they sent you the SD DVD of that movie which retails for 15 bucks. How many of you would be ticked as heck and complain to the BBB about fruad or complain to the company. Well that isn't exactly that different than what DirecTV is doing with your HBO and SHO HD channels.
It would be like going online and seeing an ad for a DVD movie only to find out that they mailed you a VHS movie. I really don't consider this any different because chances are your paying more for that DVD compared to the VHS so you would be ticked as heck if they sent you a VHS tape instead of that DVD disc.
Edit....let me ask you this....how many of you would be ticked if you payed 500 bucks for an HD DVD player and you go online to buy an HD DVD movie and charge you 25 bucks for it. Now what if they sent you the SD DVD of that movie which retails for 15 bucks. How many of you would be ticked as heck and complain to the BBB about fruad or complain to the company. Well that isn't exactly that different than what DirecTV is doing with your HBO and SHO HD channels.
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Longhorn,
I totally agree with you! The analogies you listed make total sense. Directv lists that they are sending you HDNET, HBO HD, etc., but all they are sending you is an in-house modified version of those products, of which is never disclosed to the consumer at any time during the ordering process or once they services are aquired. This is clearly a fraudulent activity, there is no doubt about that. Since I have contacted my two state's Senators, I will contact the BBB and state AG as well. I HIGHLY encourage anyone else who feels that this practice is both wrong and deceptive to do the same. It only takes about 15 minutes and all of these places have email, so you do not even have to leave your home to do it. Lets keep track on this thread as to who has been contacted. I will start the list:
Senator Ken Salazar - Colorado - 05/02/06
Senator Wayne Allard - Colorado - 05/02/06
Attorney General John W. Suthers - Colorado - 05/07/06
DirecTV (Again) - 05/07/06
I totally agree with you! The analogies you listed make total sense. Directv lists that they are sending you HDNET, HBO HD, etc., but all they are sending you is an in-house modified version of those products, of which is never disclosed to the consumer at any time during the ordering process or once they services are aquired. This is clearly a fraudulent activity, there is no doubt about that. Since I have contacted my two state's Senators, I will contact the BBB and state AG as well. I HIGHLY encourage anyone else who feels that this practice is both wrong and deceptive to do the same. It only takes about 15 minutes and all of these places have email, so you do not even have to leave your home to do it. Lets keep track on this thread as to who has been contacted. I will start the list:
Senator Ken Salazar - Colorado - 05/02/06
Senator Wayne Allard - Colorado - 05/02/06
Attorney General John W. Suthers - Colorado - 05/07/06
DirecTV (Again) - 05/07/06
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Er...they are digital formats...just NOT High Definition formats. DBS providers are free to broadcast in 1440x1080i and 1280x1080i, but they aren't free to call it HDTV...that would be misleading, deceptive, dishonest, and just not true.f300v10 said:
Nobody is saying that 1440x1080i and 1280x1080i are not valid broadcast formats...they just aren't HDTV formats. Your arguments are moot since they do not address the issue. Again, show us where 1440x1080i and 1280x1080i are valid HDTV formats?
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check the ATSC standard, search for the "high definition" definition
http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_53e.pdf
D* would appear to be in violation of the part of the standard that talks about "HD quality", although it may only be a recommendation....
http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_53e.pdf
D* would appear to be in violation of the part of the standard that talks about "HD quality", although it may only be a recommendation....
goaliebob99 said:thats a good way of thinking about it loghorn
And that is fraud and that falls under the Attorney General - not the FCC.
HDTVFanAtic said:
Yep, And you might be suprized as im cooking up something right now that involves that... I cant say more.. Dont worry good things are yet to come
720p and 1080i are considered the "HD standard" on numerous websites, not to mention the FCC descriptor pages pertaining to digital TV (they still tend to refer to digital TV, as opposed to HDTV).
Perhaps with the advent of 1080p, as well as public pressure to mandate something more current (1080i or better), things will change. But for now, D*TV meets the defined standard.
Perhaps with the advent of 1080p, as well as public pressure to mandate something more current (1080i or better), things will change. But for now, D*TV meets the defined standard.
Satmeister said:
Read Bobs website which has lots of links that can give you the answer http://www.stophdlite.com/hdlite/news.html
Here's an excerpt from stophdlite.com
here are the links that excerpt is talking about:
- <LI class=style3>http://ftp.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Orders/2001/fcc01022.pdf <LI class=style3>http://www.atsc.org/standards/practices/a_54a.pdf
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdtv
Bob....I've been waiting to see what you've been cooking up in your kitchen of HD purity? Anyway, just wanted to post the portion of EBU-Tech 3299 (European Broadcast Union) that discussed valid HD formats since it is so similar to ATSC formats for HD and HDTV:
This document defines the basic image formats and digital sampling systems for the High Definition (HD) television production applications in the European (EBU) 50 Hz environments. The European Broadcasting Union has published this technical specification to meet the demands of its Members for interoperability, and implementation stability, for high definition television production systems. The specification comprises 4 HDTV production systems:
• System 1 (S1) with 1280 horizontal samples and 720 active lines in progressive scan with a frame rate of 50Hz, 16 x 9 aspect ratio.
• System 2 (S2) with 1920 horizontal samples and 1080 active lines in interlaced scan with a frame rate of 25Hz, 16 x 9 aspect ratio.
• System 3 (S3) with 1920 horizontal samples and 1080 active lines in progressive scan and a frame rate of 25Hz, 16 x 9 aspect ratio.
• System 4 (S4) with 1920 horizontal samples and 1080 active lines in progressive scan at a frame rate of 50Hz, 16 x 9 aspect ratio.
Satmeister, your HD standard needs to include horizontal sampling rate. Once again, 1440x1080i and 1280x1080i are NOT HD...
This document defines the basic image formats and digital sampling systems for the High Definition (HD) television production applications in the European (EBU) 50 Hz environments. The European Broadcasting Union has published this technical specification to meet the demands of its Members for interoperability, and implementation stability, for high definition television production systems. The specification comprises 4 HDTV production systems:
• System 1 (S1) with 1280 horizontal samples and 720 active lines in progressive scan with a frame rate of 50Hz, 16 x 9 aspect ratio.
• System 2 (S2) with 1920 horizontal samples and 1080 active lines in interlaced scan with a frame rate of 25Hz, 16 x 9 aspect ratio.
• System 3 (S3) with 1920 horizontal samples and 1080 active lines in progressive scan and a frame rate of 25Hz, 16 x 9 aspect ratio.
• System 4 (S4) with 1920 horizontal samples and 1080 active lines in progressive scan at a frame rate of 50Hz, 16 x 9 aspect ratio.
Satmeister, your HD standard needs to include horizontal sampling rate. Once again, 1440x1080i and 1280x1080i are NOT HD...
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Er...the NAB fully support the FCCs mandated ATSC formats for HDTV (1920x1080i and 1280x720p). Some broadcasters may not allocated enough bandwidth due to excessive multicasting, but the NAB and their members are fully in compliance with the law and all legal state their broadcasts are in HD or HDTV. Are you saying the NAB is the reason why DBS providers like E* and D* can implement HD-Lite?jpn said:
They are not MY standards, they are the FED standards.riffjim4069 said:Satmeister, your HD standard needs to include horizontal sampling rate. Once again, 1440x1080i and 1280x1080i are NOT HD...
Forget about all the specs for what is and isn't a valid HDTV signal. The fact is that DirecTV is claiming they offer HDNet and HBO HD. So we must look at things from this point of view.
Both HBO and HDNet say their channels are in the 1920x1080i format. So the fact remains that as long as DirecTV or any company for that matter advertises that they offer HBO HD and HDnet "and" offer it to customers at anything less than 1920x1080i format they are false advertising. Now DirecTV or any company lowering the bitrate is another issue and is much harder to fight and win but with that said a class action doesn't need to get into that because they have a case today just for the fact that DirecTV is claiming they offer HDNet (which is a 1920x1080i feed) when in fact they are offering customers HDnet in 1280x1080i format without informing customers that HDnet's feed is high quality and your paying a premium expecting to get something your not getting. Things also get more complex just with the fact that many cable companies such as TWC, BHN, Comcast, Cox, Verizon among many others do offer HDnet in the original 1920x1080i format as HDNet provides it.
DirecTV isn't doing anything wrong by reducing the quality of the feed from its original form but they are in the wrong for claiming its the original HD feed as offered by not informing customers they are offering their own lower quality version than the original feed. Again its just as bad to not inform customers than to lie to customers. It also makes things more complex just for the fact that they charge much much extra for HD boxes "and" also charge extra for an HD Package so customers have the reasonible expectation that if they switch from their cable companies HD offerings they will still get at least the same resolution or better that they get from their cable company today.
Many people think that DirecTV started offering their 30 day money back program because of Dish Network but the fact remains that yes while this was one reason the other reason was an even worse form of a class action if things ever got that far and I'll quickly explain below.
So a customer likes DirecTVs HD offerings compared to their cable companies offerings so said customer orders DirecTV and say pays 400 bucks for one HD DVR upfront and also has a two year agreement said customer is now locked into. Think about the class action from customers who claim to be mislead into believing DirecTVs HD offerings were in the same resolution as the original but they can't find this out until they make the switch after the fact and now they must pay to get out of a two year contract because they don't want to pay for a service they were mislead into ordering. Do you see now just how critical that 30 day money back offer is now because DirecTV can now always claim the customer had a reasonible amount of time to view the quality and decide for his or herself if it was upto par.
Now this case can still be won in class action but the result would be much much worse without the 30 day offer compared to now with the 30 day offer. A very big company like News Corp only got as big as they did because they at least prepare ahead of time for just in case type of issues. They simply do things to try and cover up major losses and they try and get away with as much as they can and they take the chance that nobody will start up a class action and even if it goes that far and they lose the class action their damages have been limited enough by these few things that a big company like News Corp can almost write off the losses. Its not fair but its the world and market we live in unless we the people are willing to change it.
Both HBO and HDNet say their channels are in the 1920x1080i format. So the fact remains that as long as DirecTV or any company for that matter advertises that they offer HBO HD and HDnet "and" offer it to customers at anything less than 1920x1080i format they are false advertising. Now DirecTV or any company lowering the bitrate is another issue and is much harder to fight and win but with that said a class action doesn't need to get into that because they have a case today just for the fact that DirecTV is claiming they offer HDNet (which is a 1920x1080i feed) when in fact they are offering customers HDnet in 1280x1080i format without informing customers that HDnet's feed is high quality and your paying a premium expecting to get something your not getting. Things also get more complex just with the fact that many cable companies such as TWC, BHN, Comcast, Cox, Verizon among many others do offer HDnet in the original 1920x1080i format as HDNet provides it.
DirecTV isn't doing anything wrong by reducing the quality of the feed from its original form but they are in the wrong for claiming its the original HD feed as offered by not informing customers they are offering their own lower quality version than the original feed. Again its just as bad to not inform customers than to lie to customers. It also makes things more complex just for the fact that they charge much much extra for HD boxes "and" also charge extra for an HD Package so customers have the reasonible expectation that if they switch from their cable companies HD offerings they will still get at least the same resolution or better that they get from their cable company today.
Many people think that DirecTV started offering their 30 day money back program because of Dish Network but the fact remains that yes while this was one reason the other reason was an even worse form of a class action if things ever got that far and I'll quickly explain below.
So a customer likes DirecTVs HD offerings compared to their cable companies offerings so said customer orders DirecTV and say pays 400 bucks for one HD DVR upfront and also has a two year agreement said customer is now locked into. Think about the class action from customers who claim to be mislead into believing DirecTVs HD offerings were in the same resolution as the original but they can't find this out until they make the switch after the fact and now they must pay to get out of a two year contract because they don't want to pay for a service they were mislead into ordering. Do you see now just how critical that 30 day money back offer is now because DirecTV can now always claim the customer had a reasonible amount of time to view the quality and decide for his or herself if it was upto par.
Now this case can still be won in class action but the result would be much much worse without the 30 day offer compared to now with the 30 day offer. A very big company like News Corp only got as big as they did because they at least prepare ahead of time for just in case type of issues. They simply do things to try and cover up major losses and they try and get away with as much as they can and they take the chance that nobody will start up a class action and even if it goes that far and they lose the class action their damages have been limited enough by these few things that a big company like News Corp can almost write off the losses. Its not fair but its the world and market we live in unless we the people are willing to change it.
Talk about being "sneeky"...some time ago upon D*'s invite, I filled out a long profile Q&A...I visited my on-line profile upon seeing a post from another member
as Re: "block viewing"...he wanted to know what that was....they have added some check boxes to your profile as reguards viewing data collection. I know
for a fact these options were not there when I first filled this form out, as I would
NEVER agree to the default box. Directv collects anonymous info about viewing
info from ALL customers unless they request to block their receivers. I checked the
box that say's "Do not allow data collection about viewing habits"..it now shows
under changes since last bill as zero charge for "block viewing"
as Re: "block viewing"...he wanted to know what that was....they have added some check boxes to your profile as reguards viewing data collection. I know
for a fact these options were not there when I first filled this form out, as I would
NEVER agree to the default box. Directv collects anonymous info about viewing
info from ALL customers unless they request to block their receivers. I checked the
box that say's "Do not allow data collection about viewing habits"..it now shows
under changes since last bill as zero charge for "block viewing"
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