HD-Lite what is the point if not true HD?

bdemz

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Apr 8, 2004
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I don't know about you guys but what the hell is the point of these channels if not to see the content in full HD. I mean who the hell would watch Wickerman or Humanoids from the Depp if they don't add any wow factor.

How many times can you watch Van Gough shows or Elephants in freakin Africa unless you can see it in true Hi Def.

There is no compelling content. The only thing compelling about VOOM is that it's in HD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WAKE UP DISH!!!!!!!!
 
All about bandwidth guys. I saw this happening eight years ago when HD was just getting started. Bandwidth is money and how do the providers make more money with money? By stretching the money further. This means the more space you have for programming and advertising the more money you make. So, less bandwidth used for a given channel, the less the investment and the higher the return.

The FCC never told the broadcasters how they had to use their allocated bandwidth with terrestrial broadcasts nor how a HD signal was to be comprised. Only that a DIGITAL signal be provided.

HD as we were being provided by Voom as a DBS provider is a s close to true HD we will ever experience and that is now history. Get over it, HD is history at 1080i because the majority of the consumers will never spend the money on the equipment to enjoy it nor can they tell the difference between 480i or 1080i broadcast and programming
 
Careful, Indy- the hostiles are circling and the torches are being lit.
 
Indy said:
HD as we were being provided by Voom as a DBS provider is a s close to true HD we will ever experience and that is now history. Get over it, HD is history at 1080i because the majority of the consumers will never spend the money on the equipment to enjoy it nor can they tell the difference between 480i or 1080i broadcast and programming

Actually, I'd think that some of the OTA broadcasts are as close as you'll get. As for being able to tell the difference between 480i and 1080i ... even my wife can see that difference. It doesn't mean as much to her as the content, however.

As for the equipment. It's true that most of us have 720p HD equipment. But, as someone has pointed out to me, that is changing, and it is changing fast. Last year a number of 1080P sets were introduced. The first were from 2nd tier brands, but then large screen 1080P DLP sets at about 4K showed up. Panasonic just announced their 2006 lineup with 1080p 50" plasma. Sharp has 1080P 37, 45, etc LCDs. Everyone is going to 1080P. So within a couple of years there won't be many of us who will not be able to make use of 1080 broadcasts in native resolution. However, I will concede that ... except for the very large sets ... you can't see the difference between 1080 and 720 at normal viewing distances. Your eyes can only resolve about 1/60th of a degree of arc. Thats why 1024 x 720 plasmas look terrific, and they're not even close to real HD. Now, I do suspect that a lot of people who are complaining about HD-Lite own sets whose native resolution is 720P or LESS. So, it can only be that they think the picture has degraded ... because someone has told them it is degraded ... they have no way to actually see the degradation. I know that I can't see it.
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I have a 34" 1080i set in my bedroom, and the HDLite voom channels look great on it. Now I also have a 61" 1080p DLP Rear Projection set in the living room, and you can really notice the difference between HD and HDLite on it.
 
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I have a 52inch Dlp (Toshiba) and its clear as day the difference between HD an HDLIte. I cant see how anyone cant see the difference. Hell i just turned on Rush and nothing is crystal clear(though never was as it was always HDlite) But nothing is sharp and images are , not sure what the terms are, but like if you have a solid black color and then you dump water on it and just how its smears and blurs.

Equator use to look so great, that when shows where on, you could just see the colors and detail, now u can watch the same program and nothing stands out, its like fliping threw channels on regular cable on a reg tv. The whole effect, the whole reason of Hd is pretty much lost.
I dont get why most can see it, do you have your tv set right? Do some calibrations, cause dam its so easy to see .
 
I used to love Equator. I actually liked it better then Discovery HD. I look amazing but know it looks like sh*t. I don't see how anyone with a HD tv thats larger than 40" can't see the difference. Now there are times when it is hard to tell the difference on real old movies on some of the voom channels but for the most part its not hard to see the difference on anything else.
 
I've posted the equivalent of this elsewhere, but I think it bears repeating here. You guys are judging viewing quality primarily on set size and vastly varying conditons. Who engineered a TV is a chief factor here. 1080i is 1080i, but watching it on a quality set (read: expensive) can make a world of difference where clairity is concerned. If there's an injustice in all this downrez talk, it may have more to do with the fact that most people simply can't afford the kind of TV that will show ANY resolution from ANY source to its best advantage. And it goes beyond even that. There's virtually no way to define the "picture quality" of, say a movie, without knowing the equipment that movie was shot with. There is, take my word for it, a world of difference between the average indy flick and one filmed with a twenty thousand dollar Hollywood lens on a Paramount Panavision camera conceived by a top rate cinematographer.

Also the whole rez question may become moot once HD DVD really get under way. It's no accident that the Disney organization went with Bluray; they don't want their product copied, true--but they DO want that product too look the absolute best it can within current technological limitations. The Disney folks have a near spotless record of quality above all other studios that dates back to the 1030's. MGM's is pretty damn high too. They don't keep making new copies of Wizard Of Oz strictly for profit and the film's ongoing popularity with audiences; they do it because the technology keeps getting better and closer to what the movie's original IB Technicolor negative supplied.

Quality, gentlemen, will out. It just may take some time. But whatever the case, don't think it will end or even slow with 1080p. Electronics, unlike the relative stable format of film, seems to have nearly a life of its own with no resolution limit in sight. The point where pixels match 35mm film to the average eye has nearly been reached except in cases of color saturation and latitude. Soon it will be reached-- and then surpassed. Once that happens, the next step will be resolution so fine no human eye can possibly detect it from real life; trust me, it will happen.

Based on advertizing dollars--whether through traditional commercials or pay TV--the rule of thumb is: make that hamburger look more appealing, or that starlet's face more fetching. Corporate CEO's are not the slovenly that's--good-enough money mongers some pundits believe. They live and work in a world of almost inconceivable competition-- one guy constantly trying to outdo the other guy, at least in this country. As long as those conditions exits, corporations and formats will be fighting for civilian dollars, and the road to that is something that looks and tastes better today than the other guy's did yesterday, any aesthetics aside.

The bottom line with electronic-based mediums is: go ahead and buy that VIP622 today, because just like your daddy switched from 78's to 45's to eight track to CD, so will you. If you don't, we're all in trouble as a nation based on technology and competition. Today's "down rez" is tomorrow's Mpeg7.
 
I think the point of 15 VOOM channels in 1280x1080i HD-lite is that these are a helleva lot better than watching SD. So if you could watch "Dragonslayer" on Starz in compressed SD or from VOOM in 1280x1080i, you'd definitely want HD-lite.

The shame is that VOOM has them stored at 1920x1080 and we'll never get to see a lot of beautiful HD material at that level of quality.
 
jonesbruce91361 said:
I've posted the equivalent of this elsewhere, but I think it bears repeating here. You guys are judging viewing quality primarily on set size and vastly varying conditons. Who engineered a TV is a chief factor here. 1080i is 1080i, but watching it on a quality set (read: expensive) can make a world of difference where clairity is concerned. If there's an injustice in all this downrez talk, it may have more to do with the fact that most people simply can't afford the kind of TV that will show ANY resolution from ANY source to its best advantage. And it goes beyond even that. There's virtually no way to define the "picture quality" of, say a movie, without knowing the equipment that movie was shot with. There is, take my word for it, a world of difference between the average indy flick and one filmed with a twenty thousand dollar Hollywood lens on a Paramount Panavision camera conceived by a top rate cinematographer.
Also the whole rez question may become moot once HD DVD really get under way. It's no accident that the Disney organization went with Bluray; they don't want their product copied, true--but they DO want that product too look the absolute best it can within current technological limitations. The Disney folks have a near spotless record of quality above all other studios that dates back to the 1030's. MGM's is pretty damn high too. They don't keep making new copies of Wizard Of Oz strictly for profit and the film's ongoing popularity with audiences; they do it because the technology keeps getting better and closer to what the movie's original IB Technicolor negative supplied.
Quality, gentlemen, will out. It just may take some time. But whatever the case, don't think it will end or even slow with 1080p. Electronics, unlike the relative stable format of film, seems to have nearly a life of its own with no resolution limit in sight. The point where pixels match 35mm film to the average eye has nearly been reached except in cases of color saturation and latitude. Soon it will be reached-- and then surpassed. Once that happens, the next step will be resolution so fine no human eye can possibly detect it from real life; trust me, it will happen.
Based on advertizing dollars--whether through traditional commercials or pay TV--the rule of thumb is: make that hamburger look more appealing, or that starlet's face more fetching. Corporate CEO's are not the slovenly that's--good-enough money mongers some pundits believe. They live and work in a world of almost inconceivable competition-- one guy constantly trying to outdo the other guy, at least in this country. As long as those conditions exits, corporations and formats will be fighting for civilian dollars, and the road to that is something that looks and tastes better today than the other guy's did yesterday, any aesthetics aside.
The bottom line with electronic-based mediums is: go ahead and buy that VIP622 today, because just like your daddy switched from 78's to 45's to eight track to CD, so will you. If you don't, we're all in trouble as a nation based on technology and competition. Today's "down rez" is tomorrow's Mpeg7.

This is the best post I read in a long time. Thank you!
 
To some that never saw True HD it will be a huge improvement over SD. To those that have seen it, it will not be as huge of an improvement since they know what True HD is like. To some it will defeat the purpose as HD is not given its full potential but SD is not been given its full potential for a while now either with all of this compression going on.

It is all about quality vs. quantity.
 
the point of HD is not to beat SD, the point is for it to have breathtaking picture quality, these people that filmed HD Cam and transfered movies wanted them to be seen 1920x1080i, not have the quality sliced by a 1/3
everything HD Cam was not filmed 1920x1080i, majority is though

the topic poster is correct, WTF is the point

-Gary
 
Gary Murrell said:
the point of HD is not to beat SD, the point is for it to have breathtaking picture quality, these people that filmed HD Cam and transfered movies wanted them to be seen 1920x1080i, not have the quality sliced by a 1/3
everything HD Cam was not filmed 1920x1080i, majority is though

the topic poster is correct, WTF is the point

-Gary

And another potential side effect of this will be that producers will give up on HD. Why should they invest big $$ into filming & broadcasting something that isn't even going to be seen the way they intend it?

I'll say it again: The solution to this mess lies in appealing to the producers 'enmasse. If they realize enough people care that much about PQ (which they must or they wouldn't be embracing HD), they'll force any carriers of their signal to just pass it on and LEAVE IT THE F*CK alone! They've already demonstrated that they'll bypass their own afilliates by getting deeper into VOD. They may decide to bypass cable & Satellite for their prime time HD programs too if things don't straighten out.

For example, say Fox decides to make all their primetime network programming available for downloading in full rez HD and a few hours before broadcast at "X" $ a pop. They also make all their copyrite owned movies available as soon as the theater franchise runs out and before release to PPV and HBO type channels? All of a sudden we have a venue to get just what we want without DBS or cable. The damage to the provides like cable & DBS could be incalculable.

And if one producer does it and it's successful, they'll all jump on it.

I keep saying, this whole entertainment industry boil down to one thing:

We are the customer and Hollywood and TV are the sellers. Without our $$ the whole thing falls apart. Anything inbetween is nothing more than a tool to get the product to US and can and will be replaced if it ceases to be effective.
 
As I've said before, if a company produces an inferior product and people continue to buy it there is no incentive for that company to change the product.
 

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