How long will the lease model last?

[herdfan]

Just a little fun!

How long do you think the D* leasing model will last?

I think it depends on how many state AG's get involved as is happening in FL.

 

[damaged]

Do you mean the leasing model as it is today (i.e. leasing will remain, but done differently), or do you mean leasing period (no leasing at all)?, or either?

 

[BFG]

I think it depends on how many state AG's get involved as is happening in FL.

What?

 

[herdfan]

What?

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showpost.php?p=499930&postcount=28

 

[BFG]

Interesting, I wonder why they are looking at D* now, when they've left E* alone the whole time they've had their lease going

 

[herdfan]

Do you mean the leasing model as it is today (i.e. leasing will remain, but done differently), or do you mean leasing period (no leasing at all)?, or either?

I mean the leasing model as it is today. ie. you pay large amount upfront, yet you never own the equipment. The monthly lease fee is irrelevant as it just replaces the mirror ing fee.

 

[sheridan]

If other state AGs follow along with Florida's, then maybe they'll be forced to re-think this boondoggle

 

[BFG]

I added "they'll drop commitments & upgrade fees" because then it would be like cable and you're not paying an upfront fee or forced to maintain your lease for so long

 

[damaged]

I mean the leasing model as it is today. ie. you pay large amount upfront, yet you never own the equipment. The monthly lease fee is irrelevant as it just replaces the mirror ing fee.

Gothcha, I think (and voted) consumer complaints, but, with an addendum, a combination of the other listed factors will come into play.

 

[herdfan]

when they've left E* alone the whole time they've had their lease going

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but after a certain period of time, you no longer have to return the equipment.

This is based on the guy that used to own the house I live in. He leased an 811 from E*, but since he had fulfilled his commitment, he left it for me. When I called to activate it, the rep said that receiver was no longer under a commitment, so I could activate it in my name.

 

[BFG]

Umm, that's not right, something must've got messed up there

 

[LonghornXP]

The state of Florida has been taking complaints that DirecTV reps have told customers that they must pay upfront money to lease hardware that they do not own and have to pay DirecTV if they cancel before two years without being allowed to avoid the hardware charge by returning the hardware.

So in simple terms this is what the new DirecTV lease plan is.

Lets compare the worst case which is the HD DVR. Lets say you buy it from DirecTV upfront (or should I say lease it) for 499.99. So you must pay this 499.99 before they will ship the box to you. Lets say you only have one total room with TV service so you of course won't be paying the lease fee (was mirror fee). Also keep in mind that you will never own this box not even after the first two years which is your agreement.

Now add insult to injury that during those two years if you were to cancel service if you returned the box they would waive the programming agreement. But the programming agreement is different than the hardware agreement. The programming agreement is 150 bucks no matter what boxes you have under the account. But if you cancel you must now pay DirecTV that 250.00 HD DVR hardware agreement fee even if you return the box to them because you don't own it. If you don't return the box within 30 days from the cancel date they will charge you both the 150 buck programming fee and the 250 buck hardware fee.

So say if you payed 500 bucks upfront for one HD DVR and you cancel after six months of service. You will have to send back that HD DVR box "and" pay DirecTV 250 bucks to get out of that hardware agreement. This means if you give them the box back you have paid out of your pocket 750 bucks but you now don't have the box that you paid for anymore.

If you don't return the box to them you will have paid upfront 500 bucks plus be billed 250 bucks and 150 bucks for a total out of pocket expense of 900 bucks. Also because DirecTV owns that hardware they could if they wanted too call the police and have you charged with stealing even after charging you. Now granted they most likely would never do this but the fact still remains that they could.

Now you know exactly why the state of Florida is looking into this issue because its very bad.

 

[vurbano]

The state of Florida has been taking complaints that DirecTV reps have told customers that they must pay upfront money to lease hardware that they do not own and have to pay DirecTV if they cancel before two years without being allowed to avoid the hardware charge by returning the hardware.

So in simple terms this is what the new DirecTV lease plan is.

Lets compare the worst case which is the HD DVR. Lets say you buy it from DirecTV upfront (or should I say lease it) for 499.99. So you must pay this 499.99 before they will ship the box to you. Lets say you only have one total room with TV service so you of course won't be paying the lease fee (was mirror fee). Also keep in mind that you will never own this box not even after the first two years which is your agreement.

Now add insult to injury that during those two years if you were to cancel service if you returned the box they would waive the programming agreement. But the programming agreement is different than the hardware agreement. The programming agreement is 150 bucks no matter what boxes you have under the account. But if you cancel you must now pay DirecTV that 250.00 HD DVR hardware agreement fee even if you return the box to them because you don't own it. If you don't return the box within 30 days from the cancel date they will charge you both the 150 buck programming fee and the 250 buck hardware fee.

So say if you payed 500 bucks upfront for one HD DVR and you cancel after six months of service. You will have to send back that HD DVR box "and" pay DirecTV 250 bucks to get out of that hardware agreement. This means if you give them the box back you have paid out of your pocket 750 bucks but you now don't have the box that you paid for anymore.

If you don't return the box to them you will have paid upfront 500 bucks plus be billed 250 bucks and 150 bucks for a total out of pocket expense of 900 bucks. Also because DirecTV owns that hardware they could if they wanted too call the police and have you charged with stealing even after charging you. Now granted they most likely would never do this but the fact still remains that they could.

Now you know exactly why the state of Florida is looking into this issue because its very bad.

OMY freakin G$d........... This cant be legal.

 

[LonghornXP]

OMY freakin G$d........... This cant be legal.

Contracts can always be legal until they are said to not be legal in courts. But yes this isn't legal as far as I know. I've got to pm Scott and put on the main website to alert customers to not sign this contract if they have fairly expensive hardware.

I was wrong and I'm sorry but this is how it works. If you cancel before the 24 month agreement this is what you would have to pay.

First you would pay a pro-rated programming fee of 150 bucks. Second you would have to pay a pro-rated fee per box of 300 bucks and this charge would include all advanced boxes including an SD DVR, HD box and HD DVR boxes. This is if you cancel before the 24 months "and" return the hardware back to DirecTV.

If at any time you don't return the hardware back to DirecTV (before or after your 24 month agreement) or you return it damaged they will charge the following per box below.

200 - SD DVR
240 - HD box.
470 - HD DVR.

This above fee isn't pro-rated.

If you cancel service after the 24 month agreement "and" return all lease boxes you won't have to pay anything at all.

 

[BFG]

The only part directv needs to remove is this $250 hardware cancellation charge you mention.

There should not be a charge for returning a box to them that you don't own. But if D* wants to have an contract agreement for you to maintain that lease for the said time, it probably isn't illegal. Cars do the same thing where it's a lease that you must maintain for so long

 

[LonghornXP]

The only part directv needs to remove is this $250 hardware cancellation charge you mention.

There should not be a charge for returning a box to them that you don't own. But if D* wants to have an contract agreement for you to maintain that lease for the said time, it probably isn't illegal. Cars do the same thing where it's a lease that you must maintain for so long

Please see my above post as I was a little wrong.

 

[vurbano]

This is very confusing. OK if I buy the box from solid signal, new on ebay, VE or Newegg.com do I own it? I would pay a mirror fee then right? And how would I be subject to a hardware cancellation fee?

 

[Hall]

Since a customer freely chooses whether or not they're willing to pay out the upfront fee and then pay a lease fee each month to Directv (or any company), what business is this of the attorney generals ?? Directv isn't forcing them (the customer) to do this. If it's sooooo horrible, people won't take D* up the offer.

 

[vurbano]

Since a customer freely chooses whether or not they're willing to pay out the upfront fee and then pay a lease fee each month to Directv (or any company), what business is this of the attorney generals ?? Directv isn't forcing them (the customer) to do this. If it's sooooo horrible, people won't take D* up the offer.

The horrible part is the upfront equipment cost of $499 and then the $250 equipment termination fee. and having to send the unit back to D* Thats the part Im sure attorneys are looking at.

 

[LonghornXP]

The horrible part is the upfront equipment cost of $499 and then the $250 equipment termination fee. and having to send the unit back to D* Thats the part Im sure attorneys are looking at.

This is exactly the part they are looking at. Also remember that if you cancel before the 24 month period that even after paying all those fees you must still return the boxes to DirecTV. This alone would spark the interest on both the state and federal level.

Now add this next bit below and see in your mind how must interest this will get at both the state and federal level.

So your a customer that pays upfront costs for the box and you complete your 24 month agreement. Say you cancel to switch to FIOS right after that 24 month agreement. Well if you don't return that HD DVR box back to DirecTV within 30 days they will charge you 470 bucks per HD Tivo box that is under the lease plan. Again you don't own that box even after the first two years is complete. So yes you don't need to pay any of the pro-rated fees after two years but you still must send back that HD DVR box to avoid that 470 buck charge. Also if you don't send it back and you don't pay that charge they can and will send it off to a collection agency and they will submit this to your credit report.

I'm not even sure up until now if you all really understand what is going on but this is very bad and just because you sign the contract doesn't make it legal. Most newspaper delivery people (ie Independent Contractors) have contracts that aren't valid IC contracts but until we have a president that puts people on the NLRB that won't view the contract from the corporate side it will just be thrown out. That whole 20 step thing has much room for views and one person might view these steps in a more worker friendly way while another will view them in a more corporate friendly way. Now this is very different than the DirecTV case because we don't have much room to haggle as far as the consumer protection laws are concerned.

But remember if you have a president that puts in pro-corporate people in charge of the NLRB than those people will view that 20 or so step process in a more pro-corporation light. The NLRB will decide by that 20 step process if your an IC or an employee. Believe it or not but under Clinton the NLRB viewed these same steps from an equal footing (not pro-corporation nor pro-worker) while Bush has appointed people on the NLRB that are pro-corporation or anti-worker whichever you like to use.

Well I delved into more than what the topic at hand is but I just wanted to give a better understand on contracts and how they can still be question even if you sign them.