I can't quite grasp something... (1 Viewer)

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armadillo_115

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 10, 2015
1,279
990
Virginia
Sorry guys, I'm feeling stupid...and about to show it. According to what I understand @ true south :
I set the elevation to 36.6 degrees, based on my Latitude (Modified chart slightly different)
Declination 5.8 degrees

Sooooo... 36.6 - 5.8 = 30.8 for the end results.
That seems straight forward until I go to dishpointer and see that
78W (my near south bird) is listed at 47.5 degrees elevation ... not (roughly) 30.8. I just want to be sure I should be shooting for 36.6 degrees and NOT 47.5 degrees?

The slop in this old dish is making it hard to visualize the effects of small adjustments.I need to set the elevation and declination correctly and just live with the slop until I can do some repairs.

Thanks folks!

<Going back to the short bus>
 
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FaT Air

HOA Free Zone
Feb 27, 2010
6,668
914
97W 48N
latitude 30.8 angle on the polar mount means the perpendicular of the mount is aimed at (90 - 36.6) 53.4 above the horizon.[Polar elevation] Subtract the declination on the dish - 5.8 and the dish is looking at 47.6 elevation. Which is pretty close to :
78W (my near south bird) is listed at 47.5 degrees elevation
reference BUD MANUAL polar mount page
 

armadillo_115

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 10, 2015
1,279
990
Virginia
Ah hah! So we are really measuring the reverse angle.(So to speak) I couldn't get a handle on that no matter how many times I read the various instructions.<Brain fart alert>
Thanks Fat Air

So my dish was pretty well setup as stationary for a high bird.Higher on elevation,correspondingly lower on the declination.The wiring was removed from the actuator.Probably done after all the slop developed.I sure couldn't hit the arc until I reset it.

Which also means that it's as good as it will be until I purchase an actuator and some mount work.No magic (free) improvements.

One more question:
I'll try to explain this without taking pictures since it is rainy today.On the main pivot bolt....the bracket that connects to the bottom of the mount ring ...it flops side to side, out of line with the top bracket.Depending on where the dish is on the arc,the bottom of the dish shifts more easterly or westerly. The pivot bolt is not broken.That is NOT by design is it? I can flop the bottom of the dish side to side quite easily.Top of the dish only has the actuator play.Maybe stabilizer braces welded from the top bracket to the bottom bracket? The more I look at my mount,the chintzier it looks.

And the idiot of the month award goes too....
:wave
 
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FaT Air

HOA Free Zone
Feb 27, 2010
6,668
914
97W 48N
I'd say the pivot fulcrum is worn out. Only way to fix that is take it apart and eyeball it. See what needs replacing. Might be a worn bushing, might be a hole drilled through a plate. I wouldn't want to put braces from the top to the bottom. That will just place more strain on the top and wear it out at an accelerated rate.
 

armadillo_115

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 10, 2015
1,279
990
Virginia
Repairing the pivot fulcrum doesn't worry me,but I had already decided that I would not invest in a new actuator unless it was for a larger dish. At least I now have a better idea what to watch for when I evaluate a future 10 footer.I'll use this one as-is until then I suppose.Maybe someday I'll happen upon a better mount for this 7.5 . <Thinking> There are some Atlantic birds that I might could hit from a different location. Thanks for the info,Fat Air.
 

armadillo_115

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 10, 2015
1,279
990
Virginia
I manage to snap some pics between rain showers today.Still brush piles to burn and grass seeding to do...so overlook the mess.The first two show the pivot bolt looking up from the bottom.The red and blue lines hopefully help visualize how the top and bottom brackets do not line up.That bottom bracket pretty much flops at will and shifts the bottom of the dish.It was difficult getting a pic to show this well,sorry.
Pivot_Bolt_1.jpeg And from slightly different angle > Pivot_Bolt_2.JPG

Now a couple of photos of the mount.There is only one small bolt that screws into the pole.Mount relies almost entirely on the 2 bolt compression clamp.Any KTI owners have the same type mount? It looks weakly designed to me.(More like a K band mount) Ground wire attached between the clamp bolts is temporary.

Mount.JPG Mount_2.JPG

It's hard to make out with the neighbor's distant trees in the background but this pic shows the trees that I have cleared to open up the Western side of the arc.I'd like to trim a few trees on the left,but they are too high for ladder work.Blue Ridge Mountains are obscured by the fog about 6 miles out.(Ridge wraps around even closer on the north side...not shown)

Trees_Removed_2.jpeg

Dish viewed from the front door about 130 ft away....side view...and looking down the mouth of the mini-beast. Dish was on 91W as best I can remember.(80 degrees W is due South) Wonder what Mama Armadillo was watching on 91? lol
Ft door pic ... the black pipe (and saw horse) is the ribbon cable in scrap sewer drain to protect it from any visitor driving over it until I can bury it properly.I told a visitor it was our temporary sewer line ... they were very careful not to walk around the output end....roflmao

Dish_From_Front_Door.JPG Side_View.JPG Front_View.JPG

And finally a pic of me chawin' tobaccy in a fishnet stockings and red suspenders...



Oh crap ... that pic must have broken the message board.
:computerwindow
 
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FaT Air

HOA Free Zone
Feb 27, 2010
6,668
914
97W 48N
Looks like that's your declination adjust that is sloppy.
Think the polar pivot that's marked in red is sticky, causing undue stress on the dec. adjust bolt.
Mount.JPG


The bolts spanning the gap (green) on the backside squeeze the mount tightly to the pole.
(requires properly sized pole)
single bolt in front? I'd remove the bolt, drill the pole, and reinsert the bolt. Maybe with a longer one
ground to a point to enter the hole drilled to 'doubly' lock it in place once it's tuned to perfection.
 

FaT Air

HOA Free Zone
Feb 27, 2010
6,668
914
97W 48N
Yeah, I know, it's going to some work but ya don't want it falling off the pole on it's own. That's even MORE work to rectify.
Pivot_Bolt_1.jpg
 

armadillo_115

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 10, 2015
1,279
990
Virginia
Thanks Fat Air,the long green lines you drew show the slop much better than those I drew on pic.

The play appears to all be between the pivot bolt and that lower bracket.
Bracket > Declination bolt > mount ring > dish is tight.

I'm assuming the pivot bolt runs all the way from top to bottom? The lower end of the pivot bolt is hidden unless taken apart.(I only removed the parabolic from the mount ring,and the entire mount from the pole when I got it)
If the pivot bolt runs bracket to bracket unbroken,I don't understand how it could fall off ? Just flop a couple inch side to side.

Or did you mean the main clamp detaching from the pole? I finally got it clamped tight enough to stop it from spinning in the wind...but I can definitely envision it coming off there without a thru-bolt as suggested.

Back to watching a Lone Ranger Movie.Too many rain showers to work outdoors today.
 

beavs2112

Addicted to Legal FTA
Jan 28, 2010
814
247
London Ontario Canada
The play appears to all be between the pivot bolt and that lower bracket. I'm assuming the pivot bolt runs all the way from top to bottom?
My guess is a worn lower pivot bushing. One of my used big dish mounts had a worn upper bronze bearing. The slop wasn't too bad for c-band but if I was going to use the mount for ku signals forget it. Yes you may have to take the mount apart (On mine I had to cut the steel pivot rod and replace the bushing then re-weld the plate back on) to replace your bushing. My pivot rod was simply a solid steel rod (not really a bolt at all .... no threads or nuts involved) with the two pivot plates welded on each end.
 

armadillo_115

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 10, 2015
1,279
990
Virginia
Update: I was able to take most of the play out of the pivot bolt/bracket by tightening the bolt more while shifting the dish and the declination bolt over into better alignment.But the brackets would still not line up 100%.
Soooo...I unbolted the declination bolt from the bottom bracket and held the dish up with one hand and checked the BOTTOM bracket/pivot bolt for slop.The bushing was tight!

At this point I got tired of futzing around, took a metal post and pried the whole mess in the direction it needed to go while tightening the declination bolt and presto... much better. Looks like the whole mounting ring is warped and is cocking the bottom of the dish to one side.Placing strain on the dec bolt as well.The bottom pivot bolt bracket needs to be beaten straight also.I will need an extra hand to tighten the bolt while I pry it with both hands to get it all the way over.I'm feeling much better about the eventual outcome for this dish.It was getting old...with nothing ever in the same place twice.

That doesn't mean I'm not still looking out for a good,free 10 ft'er though.:biggrin

Strange how the mount ring,bracket,etc got warped like that...yet the parabolic dish didn't warp.

This Echostar on the link below looks like MY mount.Appears to have the clamping bolts instead of bolts that screw into the pole.(If so,it's the first pic I have found like mine) Can't see for sure by the pics though.Hmmmm...the whole thing looks like my 7.5 KTI...except the nose cone.And the price. o_O

http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/kijiji-ebay-and-craigslist-dishes-for-you-to-take-a-look-at.327363/page-113

Edit: Thanks for the help guys!
 

Titanium

AI6US
Lifetime Supporter
May 23, 2013
7,325
8,399
Meadow Vista, Northern California
Warped or hit with a tractor or riding mower? Most of my residential service calls for c-band realignments and dish damage happened because of customers on machinery or livestock. Of course it was never the customer! Almost always was the clumsy spouse, gardener or contractor... :D
 
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armadillo_115

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 10, 2015
1,279
990
Virginia
Warped or hit with a tractor or riding mower? Most of my residential service calls for c-band realignments and dish damage happened because of customers on machinery or livestock. Of course it was never the customer! Almost always was the clumsy spouse, gardener or contractor... :D

The pole was too high for lawn mower damage.About 1 ft higher than I have it now.
<thought> But that may explain why the pole had an extension on it....Maybe it got clobbered down low and they mounted it higher later.

I've always suspected that the dish was newer than the mount just based on appearance .I kinda hate to go back and ask the old guy since he gave it to me.

*** If I hit it,it will be on a Long 360 tractor...and I'm swearing it was a tornado ***
 
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FaT Air

HOA Free Zone
Feb 27, 2010
6,668
914
97W 48N
The bushing was tight!
Like I said earlier: "binding". The damage could have been caused by the bushing being stuck. The top rotated, the bottom - not, causing it to twist. I'd beat it apart and get it 'free', top and bottom. And apply a liberal coating of grease.
yet the parabolic dish didn't warp
Hard to believe the ring didn't affect the dish. I'd String test it - from lip to lip 12-6, 2-8, and 10-4 (clock positions around dish face) should only touch where they cross. Straightening the ring may require large hammers and a torch. Or shims or whatever to not put strain on the dish trying to warp it.
 

armadillo_115

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 10, 2015
1,279
990
Virginia
Fat Air .... When I said the bushing was 'tight' I meant it was not worn or loose in the hole. (tight = good) The pivot bolt spins in it ok with the declination unbolted.

Before I painted the mount, I tapped loose rust off with a hammer,ground with a grinder,etc then greased everything up.Come to think of it...I DID have to free up the pivot bolt at the bottom with a hammer and penetrating oil! It would barely turn when I started.All I thought of was...hey...this needs to move freely. Never thought about how it might have caused warpage elsewhere.(Heck,I'd never looked at a BUD before)

I string-tested it OFF the ring before assembly and it was good.(Only 12 to 6 and 3 to 9 though) I better string-test it mounted as well with 3 strings. :thumbup

Then I'm gonna either pry it into alignment or break something and do some welding.Followed by a new set-up.

The little bit that I was able to pry out by myself this morning threw the dish west 3 positioner clicks.After recalibrating each sat...I can already tell that it is more consistent on the stops now.Actuator moves smoother also.

Not sure if I mentioned this before,but the pivot bolt and the clamp bolts were definitely newer than the mount as well.Everything leads me to believe this dish had some sort of 'accident' in the past.

This is the best it has been to date.With y'alls expert advice,I may get this whipped yet.Thanks!

I'll probably be quite for a while.Be a few days before I can work on it again.
EDIT: Quiet,not quite lol
 
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Radioguy41

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 7, 2008
2,218
1,785
Lehighton, PA
I have the identical KTI dish but have never seen that particular mount, specifically the clamping mechanism on the pole. On mine the tube that slides onto the top of the pole is solid, not split, and is tightened onto the pole with two bolts that just tighten against the pole. The elevation adjustment screw fastens to a tab welded onto the mount. Here's an image from the KTI catalog and instruction manual.

kti-5b.jpg
 

armadillo_115

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 10, 2015
1,279
990
Virginia
Thanks for posting the drawing, jeepguy! Yeah,that is almost like mine.Stronger looking.Another difference is that drawing has 8 attachment points for the parabolic ...mine only has 4 points.According to the following site: 7.5 and smaller had 4 attachment points.Larger dishes had the 8 point attachment.

satellitedish(dot)com/Page_25.htm

Maybe some changes were made thru the years.I've seen 3 different focal lengths online as well.

Sidenote: After the actuator running so much smoother for hours...It is now binding up on the far east.I reset the eastern limit.Lost 58W, 61W, and 72W for now.No great loss.
Otherwise,it is hitting the other Sats regularly now.

I need to walk away from it a few days.

Edit: Oops...thought I was avoiding posting a live link.
I give up!
 
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armadillo_115

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 10, 2015
1,279
990
Virginia
Update:
Took the parabolic off today and removed the main pivot bolt and brackets.The lower bracket on the pivot bolt was bent.A neighbor heated it up and we straightened it.Pivot bolt was fine.The declination bolt (T bolt) was obviously a home-made part that was welded on crooked. I fiddled with that until it is about straight as well.( I may make a new,better bolt in the future since it has a bit of slop in it.) Cleaned and lubed up the pivot bolt and bushings.Now both brackets move freely and stay in alignment.A LOT less slop overall than before.

I still need to fine tune the dish but it is already receiving pretty well.55W to 135W...although 55W is missing many of the channels I had before.

I managed to wrench my knee and punch two screens out of the dish while trying to remount it by myself.Reinstalling that mesh into the slots was a PITA.

Question: A few spots where the mesh is a bit loose in the slots...will it hurt anything to use dabs of two-part epoxy?
 
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