I want to re-wire my house

[Lone Star Charles]

About four years ago, I bought a new house. According to the builder, it was fully equipped with all the latest and greatest cat5 and cable wiring and would be sufficient to support any and all electronics and data communication that I might ever need – anywhere in the house. Yeeeaaaaa, right!
Right after moving in, I called DirecTV, who installed a four set HD system with DVR’s as required. It worked well. The only thing that bugged me a little about the install was that the installer pulled all new cable and did not use any of the existing RG-6 installed by the builder. Two years went by and the DirecTV price creep put their services out of range so I cancelled.
The local cable company (Consolidated Communications) offered a bundled plan for cable, phone, & internet that was now mostly equivalent to the DTV service as well as a viable, low-cost alternative. This time, the installer mostly used the Cat5 cable previously installed by the builder plus whatever necessary to connect the four cable boxes. My two year commitment to the cable company will be up later this year.
My attic is full of black coaxial cable, green & blue cat5 cable, red security cabling, and who knows what. I think that it may even be secretly reproducing up there. I want to clean it all up and install whatever cable, wiring, or magic boxes that will support my whole house data, communication, security, and control systems that meet my needs and desires.
First, I called DirecTV to see if I could get some information about their wiring requirements, etc. Their response has been that this kind of information is not available to the consumer and that their technician will come to the house and does it all for free anyway. The cable company has a similar response, as does the security system company, as does nearly everyone. I don’t want someone else to do this – I want to install it myself – that’s all. I want to make my own installation decisions based on what gives me the highest quality and most reliable signals, not what gets me out of the attic the fastest and satisfies my boss that I got the job done quickly and cheaply.
OK – My question is this – Can you guys suggest any websites, books, literature, or other source of information that will give very specific information about various equipment, wiring and cable structures? I am looking for very technical information, not watered down explanations. Please help.

 

[harshness]

Installing stuff like this is a trade and as such, you usually have to go to school for it at some level. Looking at pictures and reading texts isn't nearly as valuable as OJT.

There are rather expensive documents you can buy that cover electrical codes and such.

There's only a handful of things that you need to know and a truckload of things you can do wrong (cable bend radius and connector choice/installation are deadlocked for first place).

Most who seek to "tidy up" installations end up doing some manner of damage to them; it comes down to how much.

Ultimately, an installer is going to have to come out anyway to insure that your setup meets some minimum level that they aren't going to get charged back to fix so you'll need to invest at least as much time and energy convincing the installer you know what you're doing as you do learning how to do it right. If you fail to convince them, they'll wire around you like the previous installers did.

 

[BobStokesbary]

Let me add a bit to what harshness is saying. As he says, the installer is most concerned about not having to come back to fix a job that has gone "wrong". It takes time away from his schedule and it dings his record.

Next, there are certain skill levels involved and equipment required to do the job right. Are you really good with tools? Do you have a good coax stripping tool? Do you have compression fittings? Do you have a compression fitting tool? Do you want to invest around $100 for this and the coax to do the job when the installer does it for "free"? Do you do more complex jobs around the house? Or, do you have someone come in and do the work? I just point this out because these are the realities you have to deal with and if the installer is not comfortable with your work he will want to do it his way anyway.

As harshness mentioned, there are certain things you need to know about a D* setup. In today's world you will get a SWM system. This requires a power supply in the line. It can be anywhere in the line, but your installer will want there to be a solid copper center wire for the path from the power supply to the splitter and to the dish. (This is not the stuff you buy at Home Depot.) He/she will also demand that any wire from the dish have a grounding wire associated with it until it reaches a location where it can be ground terminated. Again, this will be solid core coax which is not readily available to the general consumer.

What you can consider is if you want to do some of the internal wiring yourself. I did that. And yes, I plunked down the money for the equipment to do it right (since I also used it for redoing the wiring on my RV). Locate where you want your central point to be and count on the installer to put the splitter there. Bring any other coax to this point and leave at least a foot of extra wire for your installer to make the final termination. Just make sure all the wiring is RG6 and that you use the blue insert connectors. You will read a lot of bru ha ha on whether or not these are really required. It doesn't matter. D* QA folks require it and your installer will get dinged if they chose your house for an inspection and you don't have them. So just do it.

So, I guess the question is, do you really want to spend the money or just let someone else do it even though it may not be as neat you would like it to be? And to answer your original question, no I am not aware of any book that says what you need to do for a D* installation. It takes a lot of searching around on the internet to find out what works. And, when I called D* before my installation I got a lot of misinformation. It was not intentional, the technology was in a great state of flux at the time and they gave me the best answers they could. The were just not right.

And of course, the one major question back to you is how many receivers are you planning and what kind of a configuration do you envision? This will have a real bearing on how things get setup.

 

[Joe Diamond]

About four years ago, I bought a new house. According to the builder, it was fully equipped with all the latest and greatest cat5 and cable wiring and would be sufficient to support any and all electronics and data communication that I might ever need – anywhere in the house. Yeeeaaaaa, right!
Right after moving in, I called DirecTV, who installed a four set HD system with DVR’s as required. It worked well. The only thing that bugged me a little about the install was that the installer pulled all new cable and did not use any of the existing RG-6 installed by the builder. Two years went by and the DirecTV price creep put their services out of range so I cancelled.
The local cable company (Consolidated Communications) offered a bundled plan for cable, phone, & internet that was now mostly equivalent to the DTV service as well as a viable, low-cost alternative. This time, the installer mostly used the Cat5 cable previously installed by the builder plus whatever necessary to connect the four cable boxes. My two year commitment to the cable company will be up later this year.
My attic is full of black coaxial cable, green & blue cat5 cable, red security cabling, and who knows what. I think that it may even be secretly reproducing up there. I want to clean it all up and install whatever cable, wiring, or magic boxes that will support my whole house data, communication, security, and control systems that meet my needs and desires.
First, I called DirecTV to see if I could get some information about their wiring requirements, etc. Their response has been that this kind of information is not available to the consumer and that their technician will come to the house and does it all for free anyway. The cable company has a similar response, as does the security system company, as does nearly everyone. I don’t want someone else to do this – I want to install it myself – that’s all. I want to make my own installation decisions based on what gives me the highest quality and most reliable signals, not what gets me out of the attic the fastest and satisfies my boss that I got the job done quickly and cheaply.
OK – My question is this – Can you guys suggest any websites, books, literature, or other source of information that will give very specific information about various equipment, wiring and cable structures? I am looking for very technical information, not watered down explanations. Please help.

Charles,

Here is one I like.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html

It has way more info than you will need but I have found it helpful as a resource. Stay tuned and I'll look around.

You can do this. You will eventually need a few tools and test sets. For sure you will need a line toner, a fitting crimper, a cat5 tester + Cat5 crimper and mayber a POTS butt set(phone tester)/.

Joe

 

[macfan]

I have never and will never let a Directv installer and or subcontractor do any inside wiring in my home. I am a perfectionist and want it done right, neatly, and with the best materials. I have done all of the inside wiring in the two homes and one apartment I have lived in during the 12 years I have been with Directv. I simply sign the paper work so the installer will be paid. The best book I have found for directions is Sunset's, Wiring Home Networks. I found it on eBay. I bought all the tools and materials I needed on eBay as well. I caution you to buy only solid copper wire, not copper clad and only buy good quality tools. This is simple enough to do if you just take your time and think logically. There is all kinds of extra information you can find using Google too. One advantage to doing it yourself is that if you ever have a problem in the future or want to expand or upgrade you know how you installed your system and won't need a service call. BTW, funny thing is I have even had phone calls and visits from Directv installers asking me how to do something after they have seen my system and how I wired it. Thread Starter, you can do this.

 

[Joe Diamond]

I have never and will never let a Directv installer and or subcontractor do any inside wiring in my home. I am a perfectionist and want it done right, neatly, and with the best materials. I have done all of the inside wiring in the two homes and one apartment I have lived in during the 12 years I have been with Directv. I simply sign the paper work so the installer will be paid. The best book I have found for directions is Sunset's, Wiring Home Networks. I found it on eBay. I bought all the tools and materials I needed on eBay as well. I caution you to buy only solid copper wire, not copper clad and only buy good quality tools. This is simple enough to do if you just take your time and think logically. There is all kinds of extra information you can find using Google too. One advantage to doing it yourself is that if you ever have a problem in the future or want to expand or upgrade you know how you installed your system and won't need a service call. BTW, funny thing is I have even had phone calls and visits from Directv installers asking me how to do something after they have seen my system and how I wired it. Thread Starter, you can do this.

Yup,
I agree with all you stated. I left a Sunset wire guide in a customer's home............used it so much I didn't really need it much. The FREE basic Directv installation is quick & dirty with surface wiring a time limit imposed by the installer's schedule. To get the installation detail you require it is probably best to just let the guy run out the cable so you get free materials...than rerun it after the rig is activated.

Not everyone will take as much interest.....they want the Western Channel and a beer fast!

Joe

 

[Lone Star Charles]

Thanks to all who responded:
harshness – Based on your comments, I take it that you have this trade/training and have assumed that I have neither the aptitude nor the intellect to master these skills at your level. – Maybe not. Thanks for the warnings.
BobStokesbary – In answer to some of your questions: Yes, I am really good with tools. Yes, I have a good coax stripping tool. Yes, I have compression fittings. Yes, I have a compression fitting tool. No, I do not want to invest $100 or more for this but will do so if it means that I have an installation that is of the highest quality and gives me the most reliable signals (see original post) as opposed to just getting the installation for “free”. Yes, I do more complex jobs around the house. Sometimes I do have someone come in and do the work (the yard service is coming today – as a matter of fact I hate yard work). I’m glad to hear that you were able to install your own system, although you did not mention Cat5 or other cabling. Finally, in answer to your last two questions: yes, I do want to do it myself and no, I do not know how many receivers to plan or what kind of configuration to envision. That is the purpose of this exercise. In any event, thanks for the job interview. Sorry you didn’t know of any reference material that you could share.
Joe Diamond – Thanks for the link, there’s a lot of good stuff there. It led me to forums on these sites: avsforum and hdtvmagazine. It appears that there is some really good help in both as well as equipment reviews and operating system information. Yea, I will probably need a few more tools. I’m a tool junky anyway. Thanks for the encouragement.
macfan – You sound like a person after my own heart. I, too, am a perfectionist and have discovered that since retirement, there really is finally enough time to do the job right. My wife (bless her heart) has lived with me though so many projects that have taken way too much time, all in the quest of best quality; I shall not disappoint her now. Thanks for the recommendation on the Sunset books. It appears to be out of print, but still available used. Since you and Joe found it valuable, I will try to get a copy. Your comments on the solid copper wire sounds like good advice, thanks. Also, the advantages about future troubleshooting, expansion, or upgrading the system are significant. Thanks for your support as well.
All in all, I am very appreciative of everyone’s response. This is going to be fun. Thanks for your comments.
Charles

 

[macfan]

Thanks to all who responded:
harshness – Based on your comments, I take it that you have this trade/training and have assumed that I have neither the aptitude nor the intellect to master these skills at your level. – Maybe not. Thanks for the warnings.
BobStokesbary– In answer to some of your questions: Yes, I am really good with tools. Yes, I have a good coax stripping tool. Yes, I have compression fittings. Yes, I have a compression fitting tool. No, I do not want to invest $100 or more for this but will do so if it means that I have an installation that is of the highest quality and gives me the most reliable signals (see original post) as opposed to just getting the installation for “free”. Yes, I do more complex jobs around the house. Sometimes I do have someone come in and do the work (the yard service is coming today – as a matter of fact I hate yard work). I’m glad to hear that you were able to install your own system, although you did not mention Cat5 or other cabling. Finally, in answer to your last two questions: yes, I do want to do it myself and no, I do not know how many receivers to plan or what kind of configuration to envision. That is the purpose of this exercise. In any event, thanks for the job interview. Sorry you didn’t know of any reference material that you could share.
Joe Diamond – Thanks for the link, there’s a lot of good stuff there. It led me to forums on these sites: avsforum and hdtvmagazine. It appears that there is some really good help in both as well as equipment reviews and operating system information. Yea, I will probably need a few more tools. I’m a tool junky anyway. Thanks for the encouragement.
macfan – You sound like a person after my own heart. I, too, am a perfectionist and have discovered that since retirement, there really is finally enough time to do the job right. My wife (bless her heart) has lived with me though so many projects that have taken way too much time, all in the quest of best quality; I shall not disappoint her now. Thanks for the recommendation on the Sunset books. It appears to be out of print, but still available used. Since you and Joe found it valuable, I will try to get a copy. Your comments on the solid copper wire sounds like good advice, thanks. Also, the advantages about future troubleshooting, expansion, or upgrading the system are significant. Thanks for your support as well.
All in all, I am very appreciative of everyone’s response. This is going to be fun. Thanks for your comments.
Charles

Charles:

(BTW, that was my dad's name but he has passed away) I too am retired and a DIY / tool junkie. You are correct the Sunset book is out of print. It has a copyright date of 2004. Really the only thing that is out of date in it is the wire gauges. Cat5e is pretty much the standard now and Cat6 soon will be. Also RG6 quad core is pretty much the coax standard now where RG 59 used to be. I have not found a better book and it seems others agree. I just checked and both new and used copies can be found on eBay. As much as I would rather have new I wouldn't pay the price they want for an out of print new book. A "like new" used book would be just fine. You are going to use and refer to this book so much anyway it wouldn't remain in new condition for long anyway. If you run into any problems just give a shout as many here would be glad to help.

PS: As to solid copper wire, the forecasts are for the price of copper to continue to go up this year. If you see wire for a good price you might want to buy it and put it away even if you are not ready for it. LOL, I have 3, 250' rolls of 14/2, 2, 250' rolls of 12/2, 1,250' of Cat5e, 1,000' of RG6 quad core, and 500' of speaker wire stashed in my basement for when I get ready to finish off my basement and build my Home Theater. I know I am crazy but I bought all of that on sale. As an example I got the 14/2 for $19 for 250'. You can't touch it for that price now.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Here is my house...


http://dishretailer.com/newhouse.htm

The key is getting everything to a central point and labeling all your connections.

Send me a PM and I can go into details where to get the wire and connectors for wall plates etc.

 

[Joe Diamond]

Here is my house...


http://dishretailer.com/newhouse.htm

The key is getting everything to a central point and labeling all your connections.

Send me a PM and I can go into details where to get the wire and connectors for wall plates etc.

Claude,
Impressive project. You are at the stage in the work where you can still add one more system. Run some beverage lines to the wall outlets. Consider being on the landline..........dial B..E..E..R and having beer flow right out of the telly!

As you work, that old saying from cable college will always be true. Remember ? " IF NO SMOKE OR WATER COMES OUT OF THE HOLE YOU JUST MADE...YOU PROBABLY GOT 'ER!"

Cool pics!

Joe

 

[dishcomm]

About four years ago, I bought a new house. According to the builder, it was fully equipped with all the latest and greatest cat5 and cable wiring and would be sufficient to support any and all electronics and data communication that I might ever need – anywhere in the house. Yeeeaaaaa, right!
Right after moving in, I called DirecTV, who installed a four set HD system with DVR’s as required. It worked well. The only thing that bugged me a little about the install was that the installer pulled all new cable and did not use any of the existing RG-6 installed by the builder. Two years went by and the DirecTV price creep put their services out of range so I cancelled.
The local cable company (Consolidated Communications) offered a bundled plan for cable, phone, & internet that was now mostly equivalent to the DTV service as well as a viable, low-cost alternative. This time, the installer mostly used the Cat5 cable previously installed by the builder plus whatever necessary to connect the four cable boxes. My two year commitment to the cable company will be up later this year.
My attic is full of black coaxial cable, green & blue cat5 cable, red security cabling, and who knows what. I think that it may even be secretly reproducing up there. I want to clean it all up and install whatever cable, wiring, or magic boxes that will support my whole house data, communication, security, and control systems that meet my needs and desires.
First, I called DirecTV to see if I could get some information about their wiring requirements, etc. Their response has been that this kind of information is not available to the consumer and that their technician will come to the house and does it all for free anyway. The cable company has a similar response, as does the security system company, as does nearly everyone. I don’t want someone else to do this – I want to install it myself – that’s all. I want to make my own installation decisions based on what gives me the highest quality and most reliable signals, not what gets me out of the attic the fastest and satisfies my boss that I got the job done quickly and cheaply.
OK – My question is this – Can you guys suggest any websites, books, literature, or other source of information that will give very specific information about various equipment, wiring and cable structures? I am looking for very technical information, not watered down explanations. Please help.

Then you must educate yourself on how to do this.
No one is going to give away their expertise. This is a business.

 

[dishcomm]

I have never and will never let a Directv installer and or subcontractor do any inside wiring in my home. I am a perfectionist and want it done right, neatly, and with the best materials. I have done all of the inside wiring in the two homes and one apartment I have lived in during the 12 years I have been with Directv. I simply sign the paper work so the installer will be paid. The best book I have found for directions is Sunset's, Wiring Home Networks. I found it on eBay. I bought all the tools and materials I needed on eBay as well. I caution you to buy only solid copper wire, not copper clad and only buy good quality tools. This is simple enough to do if you just take your time and think logically. There is all kinds of extra information you can find using Google too. One advantage to doing it yourself is that if you ever have a problem in the future or want to expand or upgrade you know how you installed your system and won't need a service call. BTW, funny thing is I have even had phone calls and visits from Directv installers asking me how to do something after they have seen my system and how I wired it. Thread Starter, you can do this.

You are obviously capable. Most others are not.
Now, as a former tech and one who took great pride in my work, I am offended at the implication that you consider NO ONE as capable as you.
At this trade I was a professional. A-1 work 100% of the time.
I WAS the PERFECTIONIST...
You've done three perfect installs. I've done thousands...So have many others on here. There is an installer's thread on satguys....lots of us there..

 

[raoul5788]

I have never and will never let a Directv installer and or subcontractor do any inside wiring in my home. I am a perfectionist and want it done right, neatly, and with the best materials. I have done all of the inside wiring in the two homes and one apartment I have lived in during the 12 years I have been with Directv. I simply sign the paper work so the installer will be paid. The best book I have found for directions is Sunset's, Wiring Home Networks. I found it on eBay. I bought all the tools and materials I needed on eBay as well. I caution you to buy only solid copper wire, not copper clad and only buy good quality tools. This is simple enough to do if you just take your time and think logically. There is all kinds of extra information you can find using Google too. One advantage to doing it yourself is that if you ever have a problem in the future or want to expand or upgrade you know how you installed your system and won't need a service call. BTW, funny thing is I have even had phone calls and visits from Directv installers asking me how to do something after they have seen my system and how I wired it. Thread Starter, you can do this.

Regardless of how good you may be, if I was the installer I would never accept any customer signing a work order if I had not done the work. The installer is responsible for the work and would be on the hook to lose money on the job if anything went wrong with it.

 

[macfan]

Regardless of how good you may be, if I was the installer I would never accept any customer signing a work order if I had not done the work. The installer is responsible for the work and would be on the hook to lose money on the job if anything went wrong with it.

You have a right to do business your way as I have a right to do business my way. Bottom line, it is my home and I have a right to call the shots in my home. I will admit the Directv subcontractor in my state and I have gone round and round many times but in the end I have always gotten my way, sometimes with Directv having to intercede for me. Your post is so idiotic to me I won't even say any more about that comment. On a side note: If Directv installers really do live in fear of having things charged back against them it is time for them to unionize.

 

[raoul5788]

My post is idiotic? How? If the installer lets you do the work, he is still responsible for it! You may not trust him to be perfect like you apparently are, but you expect him to trust you to be perfect. Like I said, if I was the installer, I wouldn't do it.

 

[dishcomm]

You have a right to do business your way as I have a right to do business my way. Bottom line, it is my home and I have a right to call the shots in my home. I will admit the Directv subcontractor in my state and I have gone round and round many times but in the end I have always gotten my way, sometimes with Directv having to intercede for me. Your post is so idiotic to me I won't even say any more about that comment. On a side note: If Directv installers really do live in fear of having things charged back against them it is time for them to unionize.

Correct. Your house. Your rules. However, don't expect anyone to agree to do the last step which is to install a satellite system without any control over the cabling. As the OP stated,HE is responsible for the ENTIRE system from bow to stern. So if anything goes awry the responsibility of the ENTIRE install falls upon that technician. No one would be willing to take that risk.
Yes, we do use the existing wiring at our own risk, but if it fails, we get to come back and replace it/fix it. With your 100% control, that apparently will not be permitted. Therefore you leave the installing tech in an untenable position. One to which he would object.
Your best alternative is to buy the necessary equipment from antenna to receivers and install the system yourself. That without the expectation of any warranty save for a failed receiver.
You cannot have it both ways.

 

[dishcomm]

You have a right to do business your way as I have a right to do business my way. Bottom line, it is my home and I have a right to call the shots in my home. I will admit the Directv subcontractor in my state and I have gone round and round many times but in the end I have always gotten my way, sometimes with Directv having to intercede for me. Your post is so idiotic to me I won't even say any more about that comment. On a side note: If Directv installers really do live in fear of having things charged back against them it is time for them to unionize.

Oh, that union thing? Forget it. Save for the union heavy northeast, upper mid west and California, unions are pretty much non-existent. Few if any techs would even desire to join a union. Contractor techs, which make up the bulk of the techs across the nation would not be eligible.
Unions suck is what I am getting at.
It's been tried before. Unions have organized individual shops and even employees of both satellite companies. Each time the company found a way to get around the nonsense.

 

[dishcomm]

You have a right to do business your way as I have a right to do business my way. Bottom line, it is my home and I have a right to call the shots in my home. I will admit the Directv subcontractor in my state and I have gone round and round many times but in the end I have always gotten my way, sometimes with Directv having to intercede for me. Your post is so idiotic to me I won't even say any more about that comment. On a side note: If Directv installers really do live in fear of having things charged back against them it is time for them to unionize.

Solid copper cable is recommended only when very long runs( over 200 feet) are needed or there is the potential for heavy interference from electrical fields. Otherwise copper clad steel is the industry standard.
Most techs are contractors. And as such they must buy their own materials. Copper clad steel is as little as 1/3 the price of solid copper. Few if any are going to buy solid copper. Copper clad steel works well in most applications.

 

[macfan]

Solid copper cable is recommended only when very long runs( over 200 feet) are needed or there is the potential for heavy interference from electrical fields. Otherwise copper clad steel is the industry standard.
Most techs are contractors. And as such they must buy their own materials. Copper clad steel is as little as 1/3 the price of solid copper. Few if any are going to buy solid copper. Copper clad steel works well in most applications.

Sorry but you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on your 3 posts. That is why they still make chocolate and vanilla. I can tell you if a Directv installer ever came to my home with your philosophies I would never even open the door. Last of all, when I make purchases, especially major ones, I look for companies who hire union employees. For instance I would never, ever, buy a car or truck not made by union employees. I think my union support has a lot to do with the area I grew up in (Detroit - Flint) and my family and friends.

 

[raoul5788]

Sorry but you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on your 3 posts. That is why they still make chocolate and vanilla. I can tell you if a Directv installer ever came to my home with your philosophies I would never even open the door. Last of all, when I make purchases, especially major ones, I look for companies who hire union employees. For instance I would never, ever, buy a car or truck not made by union employees. I think my union support has a lot to do with the area I grew up in (Detroit - Flint) and my family and friends.

Ah, so would you let a union electrician do any wiring in your house?