I'm Pissed!

[JimBanville]

Mike123abc, I downloaded a pdf brochure for the 322, but I couldn't figure out if you can if fact hide the box in a closet or wherever and use 2 RF remotes simultaneously from a single 322.

Garypen, I paid $0 for 4 single-tuner recievers. If you look at the Terms & Conditions for the DHA plan, you see...
Equipment Configurations
No more than two dual-tuner receivers per account are permitted (including no more than one DISH Player-DVR 522 receiver), or a total of four single-tuner receivers per account if no dual-tuner receivers are chosen.
I guess snathanb interprets that differently than I do.

 

[ocaddict]

Personally. I'd go with the 2, 522 receiver setup. You'll save 10$ a month on fee's alone. Not to mention you'll have DVR capability. Much better than 4 crappy receivers IMHO anyways.

 

[snathanb]

Equipment Configurations
No more than two dual-tuner receivers per account are permitted (including no more than one DISH Player-DVR 522 receiver), or a total of four single-tuner receivers per account if no dual-tuner receivers are chosen.
I guess snathanb interprets that differently than I do.

I interpret that as exactly what it says.... you can lease up to four single-tuner receivers per account.

I never at any time argued that you could not have 4 single tuner receivers on the DHA plan.


The issue was up front cost of the receivers. The DHA plan agreement makes no refererence, anywhere, to initial costs. At no place in the document does it make any reference to getting all possible combinitations of equipment available to DHA plan members for no up front costs.

Example: The DHA plan also states you can have two 811 HD receivers on the DHA plan agreement. This does not mean if you call dish they will give you 2 811 receivers for free.

Get it yet?

 

[snathanb]

I thought he said he paid $50 for the 4th.

Nope, he says he got all 4 for free.

 

[JimBanville]

Can you give me a link to Dish's website where they state you can get an 811? It isn't on the Terms & Conditions page. I also don't see it when you go to select your equipment packages - they only show standard or DVR receivers. I also don't see the "3 single receiver DHA plan" that a couple of Dish reps were trying to get me to sign up for either.

 

[snathanb]

Dish works with a variety of retailer/resellers, who all seem to offer different plans.

For example, on their website, DISH does not offer the 811. However, several DISH retailers do. I got mine through getdish.com. I got an 811 and 311, with no commitment.

Others offer more equipment, but require a contract with *them* (the retailer), so they don't get hit with a equipment chargeback from DISH if you cancel. This would be a separate agreement you enter into with the retailer, in addition to the DHA Agreement you enter into with DISH.

So, I can appreciate the confusion.. Some want money up front, some don't, some require commitment, some don't. You get the picture. Add to the confusion the different ownership plans, lease plans, etc, and keeping the info straight can be a full time job. Even the promotions offered by DISH differ from those being offered by DISH retailers.

Anyway.. I'm not looking at the T+C page on the DISH website, I'm looking at the physical DISH Network Digital Home Advantage Agreement that I signed.

According to it.... here are the receivers available on the plan.
Dish 111, 311, 322, DVR 510, DVR 522, 811

Then it says:

Note: Maximum of 4 total tuners. Maximum of one DISH Player-DVR 522. Maximum of two DISH 811 receivers.

The DHA simple stipulates *how much* equipment you can lease as part of the rental agreement. It does not imply that all combinations of equipment that are on the plan will be provided to the customer free of upfront cost.

In fact... the agreement specficially states, in bold...

"We will provide one receiver, together with the programming package you have selected, for the corresponding advertised Digital Home Advantage price."

 

[dishdude]

dish directly most likely will not give you a second UHF remote to control tuner 1 on the 322...your best bet is to cancel the install with dish network driectly and find a knowledgeable retailer who can work with you on this.

 

[JimBanville]

Dishdude, so do you know for a fact that the 322 can allow control of 'TV1' and TV2' from RF type remotes simultaneously?

Snathanb, can you find the '3 single-tuner receiver w/ no commitment' deal on Dish's website that the reps kept pushing me to get?

thanks!
Jim

 

[snathanb]

No, I can't... I went through their equipment configuration applet, and it appears that, in general, they want people to have the lowest possible number of receivers.

 

[JohnDoe#2]

Dishdude, so do you know for a fact that the 322 can allow control of 'TV1' and TV2' from RF type remotes simultaneously?
Jim

Well, I know for a fact that TV1, which is IR out of the box, can be converted to UHF because I have done this for a couple of customers.

However, the customer does have to buy the UHF Pro remote kit with the greenTV1 UHF key for $34.95. And you have to be aware that if someone presses a button on that remote and someone else presses a button on the blue key TV2 remote at the same time the receiver will not respond to either of them because it can only process one UHF command at a time.

And to answer a previous question, a new DHA subscriber may get 2 811 HD receivers at no extra cost as long as they are included in the total of 4 tuners. For this option you will have to visit an independent DISH NW specialty retailer in your area. Of course, that's always a good idea anyway if you want the right answers, the proper installation right the 1st time, and good service & tech support down the road.

 

[JimBanville]

Thansk JohnDoe#2! What is required to 'convert' TV 1 to UHF? Is it just a change in the user on-screen menu of the receiver? How many different 'frequencies' or channels can you select so that a pair of UHF remotes for one receiver wont interfere with 2 UHF remotes from a second receiver? And I'm aware of the ability to get a combination of various receivers from Dish retailers. I was this >< close to ordering from VMC Satellite, but one of my main criteria is no annual commitment.

 

[Joeydutton]

You ain't the only one

The installer called today and said it was a 2 receiver/dual tuner system. So instead of using the current RG6 quad-shield cable built into my walls, he'd have to add an additional cable going to each bax, plus he'd have to run a cable from each of the boxes to the 'slave' TV's. I WANT 4 SEPARATE receivers! Is that dumb?
Jim

No that isn't dumb. As an installer, I hear this same thing every day. Instead of putting, say, four receivers in a house that is already wired up, Dish Network insists on rewiring the whole damn house to fit their stupid receivers. Sometimes we just about have to comletely ravage a house just to get the 322/522 to work within the home! And it is all about Dish saving themselves money, not about putting advanced technology in your home. Don't listen to the hype about the 322/522's. Those 322/522 are the most idiotic things I have ever seen!

Check with a retailer for 3 or 4 room deals. Many retailers in our area are refusing or avoiding the 322/522 like the plague. Instead they are still pushing the 3 room, free installation promotions.

 

[Joeydutton]

Amen to this!

The WHOLE reason I didn't want the 2 dual-tuner receivers is that I didn't want to have to run a bunch of extra wires throughout the house, since I thought the receivers would have to be in the IR remotes 'view' in at least 2 of the rooms. IF the dual-tuner receiver has TWO RF remotes and can be completely hidden away, then that would allow me to put the two dual-tuner receivers in a closet near the outside wall where the dish would be located, QUOTE]

Amen to this! As an installer I am baffled as to why DishNetwork hasn't thought of this already. Most of the time it is rediculously impossible to install this dua-tuner bulls*** in people's homes because of the very reason you just mentioned. Instead of putting the tuner in a room or closet near the main cable junction and allowing both tuners to operate with two RF remotes, we are forced to put in a main room and start hacking away at the victim's house with new holes and miles of extra cable. Everyday I have to endure puzzled and frightened looks on customer's faces as they wonder why I am raping their new house.

"It is already satellite ready, why do you need to run more cable?" they ask. Good question, Dish Network.

Dish needs to get a clue here. Their product needs to fit the vast majority of homes as they are currently structured, not restructure the home to fit their product. If they are going to insist on this dual-tuner (and soon quad tuner), then they need to have an rf antenna for EACH tuner so it won't be such an intrusion to install it in people's homes.

Frankly, as soon as I arrive at a home to do an isntall, I immediately try to talk the customer out of the 322/522. I warn them of how invasive it may be to install this and expensive as well (extra costs like wall-fishing, phone jacks, etc). They are almost always say, "They didn't tell me about all this on the phone!" About half the time they change their mind to a 311 or 510.

I plan to keep doing this until Dish restructures their 'dual-tuner' to be less invasive and distruptive to people's homes.

 

[JohnDoe#2]

Thansk JohnDoe#2! What is required to 'convert' TV 1 to UHF? Is it just a change in the user on-screen menu of the receiver? How many different 'frequencies' or channels can you select so that a pair of UHF remotes for one receiver wont interfere with 2 UHF remotes from a second receiver? And I'm aware of the ability to get a combination of various receivers from Dish retailers. I was this >< close to ordering from VMC Satellite, but one of my main criteria is no annual commitment.

Yes, you convert TV1 to UHF with a preference setting in the set-up menu.

There are 15 different remote addresses available for each tuner/remote control to prevent commands from another remote in the neighborhood interfering with what you are watching.

 

[JohnDoe#2]

No that isn't dumb. As an installer, I hear this same thing every day. Instead of putting, say, four receivers in a house that is already wired up, Dish Network insists on rewiring the whole damn house to fit their stupid receivers. Sometimes we just about have to comletely ravage a house just to get the 322/522 to work within the home! And it is all about Dish saving themselves money, not about putting advanced technology in your home. Don't listen to the hype about the 322/522's. Those 322/522 are the most idiotic things I have ever seen!

Check with a retailer for 3 or 4 room deals. Many retailers in our area are refusing or avoiding the 322/522 like the plague. Instead they are still pushing the 3 room, free installation promotions.

Well, in fairness, the main idea of the dual-tuner dual-outlet receivers is to save the subscriber additional outlet fees. One of the things the cablecos have traditionally used in their ads to slam satellite TV is the fact that the dbs companies charge mirror fees for additional STBs. Of course, now that the cablecos are trying to get their customers to have "digital" cable boxes for every set (for which they charge more than the dbs companies) it's no longer such a competative advantage.

A DISH DHA subscriber can now have 4 seperate "TVs" with only one $5 additional rental fee by having 2 of these boxes in the house. And, at least in our area, we generally find that using the existing distribution system in the house offsets the additional laber of running siamese cable to the boxes.

Also, when the DishPro+ switches become available soon the need for saimese cable will be gone. Where E* miscalculated was anticipating the DishPro+ hardware would be available around the same time the dual-tuner STBs would be shipping.

Our customers have been accepting these boxes pretty well overall, especially the DVR522s. In fact, I kind of wish they had been available when I got my own system. A 522 would suit me very well, indeed. When the 722, or whatever they call the for-purchase version that's due out this summer is available I will probably get one myself.