Installing a 10 foot cband dish into side of a building

Sammughal

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Active SatelliteGuys Member
Feb 7, 2020
21
1
Toronto Ontario Canada
I know I may be out of the usual but I LOVE analog technology and part of the reason is because of memories. When my family had the big dish I remember watching things but I was young. Yes I want analog as well but I will be watching digital stuff as well.
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I had my C-band 12-foot dish up at my roofline from 1984 to April 2018 May 2018 a tornado hit goes right over my house, I doubt it would have made it through that sucker, but it did make it through a lot of bad storms ice storms heavy winds up to 60 MPH
What method did you use to mount it?
 

primestar31

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Agreed, feel like their is some trolling going on here. Also want's it for analog C-Band as the main reason to put it up.
I don't think he's trolling. He's just young, and doesn't yet know what's possible, etc. So, he's getting an education in something that really interests him. More power to him. It's the best way to learn. Maybe he'll never do it this way, maybe he'll do it another way. Let's try to help, and not judge motives.

Could be he's just seeing what we have to say on the same subject, as over at Rick's. He'll soon find out it's not much different, and maybe here he'll find the one guy that knows exactly how best to do it.
 

Sammughal

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Feb 7, 2020
21
1
Toronto Ontario Canada
I don't think he's trolling. He's just young, and doesn't yet know what's possible, etc. So, he's getting an education in something that really interests him. More power to him. It's the best way to learn. Maybe he'll never do it this way, maybe he'll do it another way. Let's try to help, and not judge motives.
I appreciate your kindness and understanding. Some of the more advanced cband hobbyists think I might be doing something crazy trying to receive analog but it’s something I would like to try and have fun. It’s my first time with owning a big dish and I would like to experience everything from analog digital, I am late with getting into this hobby but I’m young enough so I’m new to the hobby.
 

primestar31

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Get it installed as digital, and tuned in perfectly. Then, you can consider getting an old analog receiver somewhere, and connect that up to try to get in C-span. That's to my knowledge the only old school NTSC analog signal left for years now/
 

Sammughal

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Feb 7, 2020
21
1
Toronto Ontario Canada
Get it installed as digital, and tuned in perfectly. Then, you can consider getting an old analog receiver somewhere, and connect that up to try to get in C-span. That's to my knowledge the only old school NTSC analog signal left for years now/
Thanks for the advice. When I will have it installed I’ll set it up as a digital dish and eventually hook up a 4dtv receiver I got off a very nice fellow cband hobbyist. I will hookup the old 4DTV and see what analog signals I could receive, as everybody said cspan is the only analog feed left. Wish there was more analog but I guess it’s not really favourable anymore.
 

Brct203

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Dec 24, 2016
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Connecticut
Thanks for the advice. When I will have it installed I’ll set it up as a digital dish and eventually hook up a 4dtv receiver I got off a very nice fellow cband hobbyist. I will hookup the old 4DTV and see what analog signals I could receive, as everybody said cspan is the only analog feed left. Wish there was more analog but I guess it’s not really favourable anymore.
That's pretty much what I did. I was able to find a 10-ft Winegard and installed it (pole in the ground and many bags of concrete!) and tuned it with digital. At that time I was using an old "new stock" Drake analog receiver/positioner, so one day I hooked up the LNBF to that receiver and sure enough, I was able to get C-Span. I did not receive any other analog signals, but remember seeing something strange on 95W Ku, the spectrum showed a triangle, and tuning it with the analog receiver showed a grey screen. Still not sure what that was. It might have been some unusual digital modulation that just happened to have that effect on an analog receiver.

Thanks again to Garyd for the Drake receiver and many other pieces of equipment!
 

truckracer

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Sep 17, 2004
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Charleston wv
If it's a mesh dish than wouldn't it be porous ? Because it's not solid? Wind would go through it so wouldn't the wind effect would less ? Just asking.
When the wind is over 10 mph....mesh acts solid. The load will be enormous. I wouldn't do it. I would plant a 4" steel schedule 40 pipe deep in the ground with cement and be safe.

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Sammughal

Thread Starter
Active SatelliteGuys Member
Feb 7, 2020
21
1
Toronto Ontario Canada
Anybody know what sized diameter pole I should use for mounting the dish onto? Will be secured and drilled into the side of the building and it will be bolted in from 3 different places with a big bolt at the bottom but I need to know what diameter pole I should get. The pole will go 5 feet past roof.
 

Captain Midnight

SatelliteGuys Guru
Sep 16, 2019
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Greers Ferry, Arkansas
Anybody know what sized diameter pole I should use for mounting the dish onto? Will be secured and drilled into the side of the building and it will be bolted in from 3 different places with a big bolt at the bottom but I need to know what diameter pole I should get. The pole will go 5 feet past roof.
Best to match the size your dish mount accepts. I wouldn't go smaller than 4" for a 10ft.
 

harshness

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May 5, 2007
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Anybody know what sized diameter pole I should use for mounting the dish onto? Will be secured and drilled into the side of the building and it will be bolted in from 3 different places with a big bolt at the bottom but I need to know what diameter pole I should get. The pole will go 5 feet past roof.
That depends largely on the distance between the top building wall attachment and the dish mount. Some figuring in for high winds never hurts.

To Captain Midnight's suggestion about the mount diameter, if the distance is great, it may be useful to go to a higher pipe schedule. Bolting a dish to a wall perhaps doesn't do much to help with resistance to torsional forces (something that might cause the dish to "parade wave" in a stiff wind).
 

mikekohl

Prehistoric Satellite Guru
Supporting Founder
Jun 4, 2004
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Montfort, Wisconsin
If there is a considerable distance between attachment points of the pipe (example: top, middle, bottom), then you need to have a structural engineer look at this carefully. Back in the old days of C-band, it was common (at least where I lived in Alaska, with all look angles less than 20 degrees elevation), to use an entire 21 foot length of steel pipe, cement into the ground, and attach securely across the peak of the side of the roof with a metal strap, then perhaps 5 to 6 feet of pipe above the peak of the roof.
I once experimented with adding extra stability to that 21 foot pipe by attaching a "middle" clamp between 1st and 2nd floor level, and ended up removing it in the end. Using a 12 foot mesh Paraclipse antenna, and encountering an 80mph chinook type wind, it definitely collected wind like a solid reflector...proving everything that has been previously said about mesh antennas and wind resistance in high winds.
After a wind event, the customer complained that the whole wall of the wooden frame house was shaking. Given that the top and bottom were more securely attached, removing the middle brace did not make a huge difference in the integrity of the structure. The top wasn't coming loose as originally installed, and the middle elevations were simply not structurally strong enough to consider putting them into the equation. It made perfect sense to cut that brace out before an even stronger wind damaged the wall. Engineering is a good thing, and puts the liability on someone else if the worst happens. That's why they get well paid for their professional advice. Good luck.
 

XStreamTV

Member
Feb 22, 2020
6
1
Castle Rock, WA
Hello all, I would like to install a 10 foot c band mesh satellite. I would like to use a pole and use two clamps and use 3/4 screws, I would like it to be as secure as possible, this will be done on a commercial plaza building, I would just like some advice on installing the pole, the diameter of the pole would be 4 1/2 but i would like to know if the two clamps of the tall pole bolted in with those clamps with 3/4 screws would be enough or not as i would like the dish to stand the strong winds etc. The pole will start from the middle of the building going past the roof 5 feet or so. Would this be suitable for install ? I would like the dish to be secure and to be able to stand strong wind. I would rather not have to pole from ground to roof but rather begin in the middle as it may obstruct, however if it is necessary i can put the pole in from ground to roof past 5 feet. Also is 5 feet past roof length enough to move a 10 foot dish comfortably? Please let me know your ideas and suggestions.
I'm not sure how to read when the posts were started vs when they were last commented on. Here are some pictures of our installation of our c-band dishes. We had to get a permit through the city, but luckily the Mayor loves us (WISP) and is excited that we will be ale to provide IPTV soon (configuring LNBs as I type). I do know that we had to have a few special mounts made, as the mounts that came with the dishes were not sufficient. If you have anymore questions, let me know and I will find out the answer, if I don't already know it. Thanks!
 

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Sammughal

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Feb 7, 2020
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Toronto Ontario Canada
My original plan was to bolt the pole into the building using 3/4 screws it’s concrete blocks. I am going to get a pole guy in to install pole into the side of the building not touching the ground? Would it be a bad idea to have a install without the pole going into the ground? I’ve attached a picture of the type of install I was referring to. Here’s an old install near me please view the picture. This was the type I was talking about. Is doing this safe like similar to whats in the photo I’ve attached. The dish pictured below has been there for least 30 years I’ve seen it growing up. It’s always been busted up since I was a kid so it’s missing panels.
8BE128D2-77CA-4F86-9D73-34F54214AA69.jpeg
 

907TECH

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Aug 29, 2018
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Alaska
My former C band dish at my last house, jacked up high to clear some trees. 12 foot Paraclipse copy from a company called UP Superior in Michigan. Built in Moose stand/service platform. The pole was free standing, well casing sunk into about 1 yard of concrete and 20 feet tall. It did oscillate a little in high wind.
 

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Inclined Orbit

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Jan 2, 2018
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Los Angeles
I've been involved in similar installs to what the OP is needing and would agree with others on going all the way through the wall with long bolts to a backing plate. I would also recommend using at least 3 if not 4 clamps on a pipe that long and welding a foot on the bottom of the pipe so you can drill into hopefully concrete at ground level and anchor the pipe so it doesn't turn in high winds. A non pen roof mount is also a good alternative since the hardware is readily available and its all been figured out.

I have also done a self supporting, roughly 15ft tall dual sleeved sched 80 pipe install in concrete that held a 3.8M dish where you easily walk under the reflector at low look angles. After the two sched pipes were slid together and welded it was sent off to the galvanizing guys. There was never any swaying in the wind on that dish, which looked like a giant lolipop sticking out of the ground. Its always a good idea to have a PE look over your ideas or drawings and stamp them ok to avoid liability. Otherwise here is a typical small dish install that I get involved with and they get much bigger.

9m.JPG
 
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Sammughal

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Feb 7, 2020
21
1
Toronto Ontario Canada
Okay as I’m understanding from fellow members with experience the pole install might be a little too risky, the building I was going to install it at was at my uncles commercial unit, however I downloaded the dish pointer program and it turns out I can see most of the southern sky from his backyard which is quite large, so that’s also an option of installing it in his backyard so how would a backyard install be? Would it be easier and safer ? Using concrete and pole into ground and not mounting it to high at about 4 - 5 feet in the air ? His backyard can see almost all of the belt including amc 11 I will also take pictures of the backyard for reference. Can anyone guide me on a backyard install if the roof pole install isn’t safe ?
 

MikeI

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Sep 25, 2004
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Between Joseph and this guy. I feel like we are being punked in some sort of twisted way. Most installs are done in backyards, you will be fine. Just make sure you use plenty of concrete.

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Inclined Orbit

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Jan 2, 2018
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Backyard is much easier and virtually no risk. Dig a hole and pour the recommended amount of concrete for your soil conditions. The dish mfr should specify the amount of concrete and minimum height of the pipe in the instruction manual. Make the pipe super plumb and assemble the dish after the concrete cures enough. I like to run PVC conduit for cables and stub it up through the concrete close to the pipe.

If your in a high lightning area and the dish is at a high spot susceptible to lightning you might consider a ground ring around the foundation using several ground rods at each corner of the foundation bonded with the recommended size ground wire (6ga copper minimum per NEC article 810), then run the recommended size wire (6ga copper minimum) from that to your house main AC panel ground so everything is at the same potential or as close as you can get it. There is other grounding and lightning bypass stuff to consider if you need to go that route.

Okay as I’m understanding from fellow members with experience the pole install might be a little too risky, the building I was going to install it at was at my uncles commercial unit, however I downloaded the dish pointer program and it turns out I can see most of the southern sky from his backyard which is quite large, so that’s also an option of installing it in his backyard so how would a backyard install be? Would it be easier and safer ? Using concrete and pole into ground and not mounting it to high at about 4 - 5 feet in the air ? His backyard can see almost all of the belt including amc 11 I will also take pictures of the backyard for reference. Can anyone guide me on a backyard install if the roof pole install isn’t safe ?
 

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