A very interesting story in the New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/18/technology/18apple.html?src=sch&pagewanted=all
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/18/technology/18apple.html?src=sch&pagewanted=all
Interesting story: Will Apple's Culture Hurt the iPhone?
- Thread starter rockymtnhigh
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Funny thing. I went with my brother in law this past Sunday to an Apple store so he can get a new iPhone 4. While I was there I was watching the Giants and Phils on my phone. The so called Apple Geeks that work there could not understand how I was able to stream my DirecTV to my phone using Sling. They also do not know how I was able to watch the game via the MLB At Bat App. These are supposed to be tech geeks and they were clueless on the steaming capabilities of the phone.
They also questioned how I was able to list my provider as Dodgers on my phone. I told them I jailbroke it. Some of these geeks did not understand what Jailbreaking was, while the others who did told me it was illegal. I just laughed and thought to myself, real computer geeks use PCs. Macs are for the computer illiterate
They also questioned how I was able to list my provider as Dodgers on my phone. I told them I jailbroke it. Some of these geeks did not understand what Jailbreaking was, while the others who did told me it was illegal. I just laughed and thought to myself, real computer geeks use PCs. Macs are for the computer illiterate
rockymtnhigh said:
Yeah that is interesting. My personally opinion is RIM has more to worry about. RIM is not releasing and phones worth a lick in the hardware front. At least current WinMo phones like HD2 have sound hardware with Snapdragon and Ram. Meanwhile RIM still has nothing close. Having had all platform except iPhone, RIM has nothing I like. Android and WinMo 7 are the most customizable.
DodgerKing said:
Yeah the Fruit geeks should also know the Government just made Jail Breaking legal. The only thing they can really do is void the warranty now.
A few things:
I think the main argument of closed system v. open system and the creativity and innovation that has been the google model is an interesting one. Its not like the closed Apple ecosphere has struggled. Heck, I'll be the first to admit, the iphone (and ipad) do what they do quite well. And very responsive software. But can that closed model of tight control last for the long term? Its hard to imagine what the world would be like if they licensed the iOS operating system; just in terms of different manufacturers devices. In many ways the refusal to license the Mac OS limited its role in the PC market (although today I do see a lot of students with macs; far more than I used to). Will that iphone only for iOS work for the next five years? 1 new phone every 12 months; compared with the 5 or 6 major Android phones announced/introduced since the iP4 came out in June.
I do think that RIM does have problems to be concerned about, but lets not forget the size and scale of the Blackberry world. and the fact that in the corporate world where it is the standard, end users do not always have the choice of whether or not to move away from the platform; it is a corporate decision. But even still, I suspect RIM is sweating some bullets with the incredible expansion of the entire smartphone market.
Of course the article also mentions that with the iphone finally moving to Verion, it might slow the Android onslaught, but for me the interesting question is how many people will buy an iphone just because "its an iphone" or how many will stick with Android. I suspect many will switch "because its an iphone," but only time will tell.
I think the main argument of closed system v. open system and the creativity and innovation that has been the google model is an interesting one. Its not like the closed Apple ecosphere has struggled. Heck, I'll be the first to admit, the iphone (and ipad) do what they do quite well. And very responsive software. But can that closed model of tight control last for the long term? Its hard to imagine what the world would be like if they licensed the iOS operating system; just in terms of different manufacturers devices. In many ways the refusal to license the Mac OS limited its role in the PC market (although today I do see a lot of students with macs; far more than I used to). Will that iphone only for iOS work for the next five years? 1 new phone every 12 months; compared with the 5 or 6 major Android phones announced/introduced since the iP4 came out in June.
I do think that RIM does have problems to be concerned about, but lets not forget the size and scale of the Blackberry world. and the fact that in the corporate world where it is the standard, end users do not always have the choice of whether or not to move away from the platform; it is a corporate decision. But even still, I suspect RIM is sweating some bullets with the incredible expansion of the entire smartphone market.
Of course the article also mentions that with the iphone finally moving to Verion, it might slow the Android onslaught, but for me the interesting question is how many people will buy an iphone just because "its an iphone" or how many will stick with Android. I suspect many will switch "because its an iphone," but only time will tell.
I believe anything that is said on "commercial" meetings like earnings report - even by St. Jobs - should never be looked at from the technology point. Those meetings have just one goal in mind, "maximize shareholders value", i.e. bump the stock price. You can say anything short of being accused of lying.
RE: Apple's meeting
WSJ wrote
Steve Jobs Critiques Apple’s Rivals - Digits - WSJ
By the end of June there were 160K Android devices activated daily and by August 4th - 200K. Some 25% jump in about 5-6 weeks.
Apple had 230K iOS activations daily on September 1st and 275K iPhones as of yesterday. Some 20% jump in 7 weeks (considering iOS-iPhone).
According to Nielsen, Android is doing at least as good as Apple considering current sales. Hence in 11 (from Aug. 4th to today) weeks Android must sell about 300K (50% increase).
But St. Jobs will tell you there is some statistics out that you can believe (favours Apple) and some you can't (favours Android).
And how can you question the wisdom of a holy man...
Diogen.
RE: Apple's meeting
WSJ wrote
Steve Jobs Critiques Apple’s Rivals - Digits - WSJ
Apple fanboys might believe this "surprise appearance" spiel, but the reality it much simpler: Apple knew the stock price will drop on iPad volume and thinning profit margins news and wanted to counter this with Jobs appearance...Didn't help.
Small lies don't make it truths...
By the end of June there were 160K Android devices activated daily and by August 4th - 200K. Some 25% jump in about 5-6 weeks.
Apple had 230K iOS activations daily on September 1st and 275K iPhones as of yesterday. Some 20% jump in 7 weeks (considering iOS-iPhone).
According to Nielsen, Android is doing at least as good as Apple considering current sales. Hence in 11 (from Aug. 4th to today) weeks Android must sell about 300K (50% increase).
But St. Jobs will tell you there is some statistics out that you can believe (favours Apple) and some you can't (favours Android).
And how can you question the wisdom of a holy man...
Diogen.
What's with this new name calling "St. Jobs" "Holy man" ? Just because he did return from the dead twice, doesn't make him anymore special than just the best CEO of a public company to come along in quite awhile. Last great visionary was Bill Gates.
What the PC world has always maintained and so does it in the mobile communications world is a mindset that you have to be a Geek or techie to love these open devices and computers. What Apple ( aka holyman) discovered and has shown is that the world wants to use this stuff but wants it to work like a TV set or their car, or a microwave oven. So Apple is trying to satisfy that market.
Diogen you are a pure bred techie. I'm more of a hybrid. You would prefer to program your microwave oven with your own custom cycles. I prefer to visually size the food and hit the 30 second cook button 16 times to get 8 minutes of cook time. But I do prefer to have my windows PC and hate the Macbook pro. I love my ipad but think my daughter's iphone is a joke!
The greatest gift Jobs gave to the world is a choice other than having to be a geek to use a PC.
What the PC world has always maintained and so does it in the mobile communications world is a mindset that you have to be a Geek or techie to love these open devices and computers. What Apple ( aka holyman) discovered and has shown is that the world wants to use this stuff but wants it to work like a TV set or their car, or a microwave oven. So Apple is trying to satisfy that market.
Diogen you are a pure bred techie. I'm more of a hybrid. You would prefer to program your microwave oven with your own custom cycles. I prefer to visually size the food and hit the 30 second cook button 16 times to get 8 minutes of cook time. But I do prefer to have my windows PC and hate the Macbook pro. I love my ipad but think my daughter's iphone is a joke!
The greatest gift Jobs gave to the world is a choice other than having to be a geek to use a PC.
After a closer look, the "275K average over the last 30 days" is about iOS devices, NOT iPhones.
So, how many of those are actually iPhones, the market Android is in? Apple doesn't say, but a reasonable estimate can be made...
Apple sold "14.1 million iPhones in the last quarter". The last quarter had 92 days.
Hence, on average during the quarter, Apple was selling 153K iPhones per day.
But these numbers don't take into account the dynamic over the quarter.
In other words, what is the factor between average quarterly activations and last month activations (known to be 275K)?
iOS devices consist of iPhone, iPads and iPods Touch. I couldn't find how much iPod Touches were sold but I think they shouldn't affect the dynamic too much. iPhones+iPads=14.1+4.5=18.6 Let's round it up to 20M with iPads Average over the quarter: 20M/92=217K iOS devices per day.
Therefore the ratio between average and last month was 275k/217k=1.27, i.e. during the last month 27% more than quarter average.
Applying this number to iPhones we get: 1.27 * 153K = 194K. Let's round it UP to 200K iPhones activations during the last 30 days.
In other words, Apple sells as many iPhones per day as Androids were sold 3 months ago per day...
No wonder Apple doesn't release the breakdown and prefers to b!tch about the competition...
Diogen.
So, how many of those are actually iPhones, the market Android is in? Apple doesn't say, but a reasonable estimate can be made...
Apple sold "14.1 million iPhones in the last quarter". The last quarter had 92 days.
Hence, on average during the quarter, Apple was selling 153K iPhones per day.
But these numbers don't take into account the dynamic over the quarter.
In other words, what is the factor between average quarterly activations and last month activations (known to be 275K)?
iOS devices consist of iPhone, iPads and iPods Touch. I couldn't find how much iPod Touches were sold but I think they shouldn't affect the dynamic too much. iPhones+iPads=14.1+4.5=18.6 Let's round it up to 20M with iPads Average over the quarter: 20M/92=217K iOS devices per day.
Therefore the ratio between average and last month was 275k/217k=1.27, i.e. during the last month 27% more than quarter average.
Applying this number to iPhones we get: 1.27 * 153K = 194K. Let's round it UP to 200K iPhones activations during the last 30 days.
In other words, Apple sells as many iPhones per day as Androids were sold 3 months ago per day...
No wonder Apple doesn't release the breakdown and prefers to b!tch about the competition...
Diogen.
Ok guys, lets take it down a notch.... I think the story was about how the closed culture could hurt Apple in the long run. Not about specific stats. I get it, read the "Android is fragmented" and Jobs' android-attack yesterday, but it was during an earning call. Taken with a grain of salt, even if the Android blogs have been having a field day.
I think the story was about how the closed culture could hurt Apple in the long run. Not about specific stats. I get it, read the "Android is fragmented" and Jobs' android-attack yesterday, but it was during an earning call. Taken with a grain of salt, even if the Android blogs have been having a field day.
Although we decided to get two android phones recently, I still like (not love) what Apple has done with their iPhone - both product and services. Good article! Regardless of what Google is doing with android, the iPhone has a sizable market and a reasonable business plan...they should be fine if they continue to innovate and develop new products and services. Offhand, I see the iPhone and android doing well, with RIM and Windows Phone 7 struggling. We shall see...
As it turns out there is much more crap in St. Jobs rant that only Apple faithful are ready to swallow
RIM's Jim Balsillie hits back at the Steve Jobs rant, Apple's 'distortion field' -- Engadget
That result padding is actually an interesting idea...
Diogen.
RIM's Jim Balsillie hits back at the Steve Jobs rant, Apple's 'distortion field' -- Engadget
That result padding is actually an interesting idea...
Diogen.
I think so, too... in the US.
On a world scale it would be hard to dismiss Nokia. And Apple's distortion field is much less pronounced...
I do believe there will be 2-3 players left to rule the cell market. But it will take a decade and who those players will be is not a given.
Diogen.
But what is the prospect for Nokia in the future?
The way I see it is Apple is going after the general non-geek market who just want an easy to use phone with data features like sending pictures, getting weather and banking and playing a game or two. Facebook app stuff like that. The Android is mostly for those who either don't want the higher cost of Apple plans or really like the independence of customizing their devices for personal use. The third market are the enterprise business users this is where RIM comes into play. They really have a stranglehold on that market.
If Google is unsuccessful in making their phones as slick as iphone with the custom use geeks expect, then it will fail as only the really tech minded will be using them. Anyone who jailbreaks an iphone is a candidate for this Android group. Anyone who tries to root their android device and screws up their phone or gets frustrated with apps that are loaded with bugs, will migrate to the iphone. As long as RIM gives employers control over their employee's phones, it will keep the rather stable enterprise business.
So what will kill Apple in all this?
1. Steve Jobs leaving the company.
2. iphone release with a major flaw, much larger than the antenna issue.
3. Steve Jobs unable to satisfy his base with a control issue he stubbornly keeps from them, like Flash. This slaps iOS users everytime they land on a site with it.
4. Failure to expand service providers beyond exclusivity.
5. Unforseen shortage in raws to meet demand in products.
The way I see it is Apple is going after the general non-geek market who just want an easy to use phone with data features like sending pictures, getting weather and banking and playing a game or two. Facebook app stuff like that. The Android is mostly for those who either don't want the higher cost of Apple plans or really like the independence of customizing their devices for personal use. The third market are the enterprise business users this is where RIM comes into play. They really have a stranglehold on that market.
If Google is unsuccessful in making their phones as slick as iphone with the custom use geeks expect, then it will fail as only the really tech minded will be using them. Anyone who jailbreaks an iphone is a candidate for this Android group. Anyone who tries to root their android device and screws up their phone or gets frustrated with apps that are loaded with bugs, will migrate to the iphone. As long as RIM gives employers control over their employee's phones, it will keep the rather stable enterprise business.
So what will kill Apple in all this?
1. Steve Jobs leaving the company.
2. iphone release with a major flaw, much larger than the antenna issue.
3. Steve Jobs unable to satisfy his base with a control issue he stubbornly keeps from them, like Flash. This slaps iOS users everytime they land on a site with it.
4. Failure to expand service providers beyond exclusivity.
5. Unforseen shortage in raws to meet demand in products.
IQ Test Question (fill in the blank)
Android is to geek as iPhone is to
Grading:
1 Correct = Genius
0 Correct = Dullard
Android is to geek as iPhone is to
dork.
Grading:
1 Correct = Genius
0 Correct = Dullard
Kidding...just wanted to have a little fun!!!
I don't think Apple gets killed in this market. Just like in the PC market...
But I don't think that when every cell phone will be a smartphone,
they will have as much market share as they do now. For one reason: price.
And I believe Nokia will have a bigger market share than Apple...
Diogen.
But I don't think that when every cell phone will be a smartphone,
they will have as much market share as they do now. For one reason: price.
And I believe Nokia will have a bigger market share than Apple...
Diogen.
Apple's fanboy base is way too big for it to get killed; and too many people want it for the cool factor; but Apple may very well find that its dominance is seriously challenged, by sticking so hard with the control approach. I though Don Landis' point about flash was a good one. Every time a loyal user goes to a web page with flash in it, they get stymied. Its not insignificant.
But lets also acknowledge that while Google's Android is open; manufacturers like Motorola, HTC, and carriers like Verizon, are quite happy locking stuff down. I.e., the bootloaders on most new phones that come out. I can see why they want to put their imprint on phones, i.e., HTC Sense, Moto crap, er... blur; but it is not necessary to lockdown the phones to prevent power users from fully customizing.
There is a constant tension between openness and closed, which is very much guided by corporate profit. Up to this point, Apple has won BIG; the question is where does the world go from here.
riffjim4069 said:Android is to geek as iPhone is to dork.
Grading:
1 Correct = Genius
0 Correct = Dullard
Kidding...just wanted to have a little fun!!!
in that spirit...
Do you know why Apple employees are required to wear a shirt with Genius print on it?
So they can remember how to spell it.
How many Apple Geniuses does it take to answer your tech question?
None! Because none of them know the answer.
Can an Apple Genius use a computer?
No, they only know how to sell a Mac. The genius trainees can only sell you an iPod.
Why do so many hot babes hang out at the Apple store?
Hot babes feel safe around gays.
I have lots more but they get a bit vulgar.
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