Is 4DTV Doomed? Should it be?

[tvropro]

I believe the fate of 4dtv rests with NPS. If they ever drop 4dtv, it's doomed.

Why this may be true. I think SRL also has a strong following. They do offer channels on W5 that NPS don't so they tend to each have there strong points. I wish NPS would spend a little bit of there stashed away gold and do a few things.

1) Get the G3 bitrate up.

2) Get all the 4DTV compatible masters. I think if NPS put the cash out that the programmers want they would deal with them.

3) A new receiver would be nice.

I believe the first two would go quite far is securing a stable future and quite a bit more in revenue for them. The third one would be icing on the cake.

 

[trinidex]

Is 4DTV Doomed?
a)The technology (DCII) - No
b)Being able to subscribe as a regular punter (home user) - Yes

Should it be? - Hell no! - I am sick of "okay TV" - so what if the TV says 1080P - doesn't mean much if the source is naff!

Remember this, analog VCII is still active - it is just not possible for us peeps to sub AND there are lots of compatible 4DTV channels/feeds out there that we are not allowed to sub to.

Starchoice - that's Motorola DCII - they have new receivers with HD and fancy new software,menus and capability - so if they can make it for them - they can make it for the rest of us - without the expense of R&D - they've already made the boxes!

It is not so much a question of "is 4DTV is doomed", more important, "is the service to end users doomed" - and that is a yes.

I also think that if NPS upped their offering, the system would be more appealing to regular fokes - remember they only offer stuff that SRL don't - and it is poor quality.

Something else...my wife loves our 4DTV AFTER ditching DirecTV - it is configured to update nightly, and we have configured the Guide to show our Favorites - AND - I've noticed the Guide Info is quite detailed - at least it's complete - unlike my DirecTV receiver that truncates program info!

 

[servoman]

LOL, I thought I was the only one who didn't like the logos and pop up ads. I don't have a sub with 4Dtv because of this also. I'm thinking of getting a sub just to count as a number. I was really sad when RTN started putting a logo on their screen. Really nice to see a color logo on a black and white show. If they really want to be retro they shouldn't have a logo at all, that's the way it used to be. Is their any 4dtv sub channels that don't have a logo besides HBO?

 

[Robert_W]

Well am I in for a doomed enviroment? Yes, as you stated the reciever is expensive, for being as new as 2002.
I do not see much on the KU with the coolsat 5000. As some of those companies comply of "thousands of channels" untill you start getting into this.
Well skyvision has their "Own" boxes for $150. But that is on W5 only. (Ah, also a pizza with a big crust).
Supply and Demand, might keep the price up on the 4D,,, Need to have some action
But magority wants it simple,,, and off to their local DN,DTV, or cable company. And this Digiatal for OTA (Federal Law made the foreign companies millions on their converter boxes) has not the range of analog, makes you go and find servie at other places. Which is why I am looking into the FTA systems.

I wonder if the "Movie channels companies" would notice the little ppl, that if they sold their own products to a penny a day. That they would get more money than what these pies are paying them!!!!!!!

Look at CBS,,,, dish offered $300.00 a month. Now if they where to sell codes for us 4DTV consumers for a penny a day, per household. They would get something like (30,000 households per day= $300.00) than to have those pie companies ROB the masses!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe we should have a satellite business called "Satellite Guys Members Only" And show each programmers' potential income they are lossing to pizza pie's money hungry greed.

Yours Truely
Mad at societies greed,
Robert

 

[trinidex]

"(Ah, also a pizza with a big crust)" - is this right? I though they were masters - I've been wrong before

Still better than NPS G3 - PLUS you get a guide

 

[tvropro]

"(Ah, also a pizza with a big crust)" - is this right? I though they were masters - I've been wrong before

Still better than NPS G3 - PLUS you get a guide

The W5 channels are second generation feeds meant for cable headend's. They are pretty decent quality and are unlike the NPS bitstarved channels. They look better then what you get on Direct tv and Dish Network.

 

[dashaund]

I've held out on 4DTV due to the price of the equipment, and also the fact that they're not making these receivers anymore. It's a little nerveracking dropping $400+ for a "reconditioned" receiver from Starvision not knowing if I'm going to be able to use it for subscription programming in a few years. Also, it seems like the programming isn't really that "cheap" anymore, especially the movie packages like HBO and Showtime. Sure, stuff like Discovery channel and TV Land and others A La Carte aren't so bad, but the packages don't seem like that big of a deal to me. Seems like the companies are continuing to get greedy. Pretty soon it's going to backfire and people aren't going to be able to afford cable programming...or they're going to turn to the pirates...

 

[tvropro]

I've held out on 4DTV due to the price of the equipment, and also the fact that they're not making these receivers anymore. It's a little nerveracking dropping $400+ for a "reconditioned" receiver from Starvision not knowing if I'm going to be able to use it for subscription programming in a few years. Also, it seems like the programming isn't really that "cheap" anymore, especially the movie packages like HBO and Showtime. Sure, stuff like Discovery channel and TV Land and others A La Carte aren't so bad, but the packages don't seem like that big of a deal to me. Seems like the companies are continuing to get greedy. Pretty soon it's going to backfire and people aren't going to be able to afford cable programming...or they're going to turn to the pirates...

4DTV is still the best deal at this time, You can get 80+ master movie channels, ala carte, small packages, no contracts or early termination fee's. While a few channels we don't get anymore when Dish, Direct, Cable etc is done with you for those channels you will have allot more invested then the cost of the 4DTV receiver and programming. Monthly and hidden fees on the pie plates & cable will add up very fast. Jump ship on your contract and expect the big screw in $$$.

Piracy has dried up for the most part currently. The providers know this and really sticking it to there customers.

 

[bobvick]

4dtv is their baby.

Technically 4DTV is not Motorola's "baby" it was developed long before Motorola acquired General Instrument. Motorola has never and will never have any interest in the TVRO market. Motorola purchased GI for their commercial satellite and cable divisions, not for any consumer market.

 

[tvropro]

Technically 4DTV is not Motorola's "baby" it was developed long before Motorola acquired General Instrument. Motorola has never and will never have any interest in the TVRO market. Motorola purchased GI for their commercial satellite and cable divisions, not for any consumer market.

Motorola needs to give up the 4dtv division to someone else. At least when GI had it they wanted it to go somewhere. Just another good thing Motorola is destroying. :rant:

 

[LocutusOfBorg]

Nothing lasts forever, 4dtv will end when everyone switches to dvb-s2 H264, I'm sure even HITS will switch in a few years. Now the question is how long will you be able to sub? That my friends is pretty much unknown, if you can get a 4d at a decent price grab it, I'm sure there is a few years left.

It'll be useful for moving the dish, at least.

 

[bassist]

Without the espn & fsn networks, it's doomed. Sports are a HUGE reason why people pay for subbed tv.

 

[LocutusOfBorg]

Money talks. Cable and pizza dish dominate the market. We are such a small segment we are gradually being left behind. I feel like HD has really accellerated the demise of 4dtv.
since even if you are lucky enough to have a HDD-200, there is such a limited number of real HD channels for 4dtv.

So many programmers are moving to power vu dvb equipment for uplinking.
They are ditching moto's digicipher.

There is a lot of factors playing into this. Mainly its moto's fault because they have not promoted the technology or updated it to be more HD friendly.
i don't know many people who are gonna go out and spend 2k on a big HD tv and never see any HD with it. ...well second thought...I do know a couple people LOL

Its just a matter of time and the big dishes will be straight up
fta only.

I think the biggest problem is the initial cost of installing a BUD and acquiring a 4DTV and HDD. That's why a lot of people don't jump in to the BUD community plus, for some reason, not many people want a 8+ foot antenna in their backyard (especially city dwellers). Dish Net is more attractive due to the low initial cost and the much smaller dish. Plus it's less complicated to operate the minidish than the BUD. Whatever the reasons, the 4DTV is on it's way out. FTA would probably give DishNet more competition if all the programming is moved to Ku band where a smaller antenna can be used. I have a 4DTV with a HDD200 and I don't plan on getting anymore subs especially since a lot of programming is no longer available via DCII. I have other issues about subs but nothing will change because very few others feel the way I do or they simply tolerate the way programming is delivered. :rant:

 

[LocutusOfBorg]

Without the espn & fsn networks, it's doomed. Sports are a HUGE reason why people pay for subbed tv.

Sports programming is WAY overpriced. Plus, even if you subbed to all the sports packages ( a HUGE amount of money), you'll never be able to see every sporting event. For example, I couldn't get an NHL game (Avalanche) that was being played on the east coast - blackout conditions should never have been applied.

 

[TRG]

Without the espn & fsn networks, it's doomed. Sports are a HUGE reason why people pay for subbed tv.

That's what killed it for me. No ESPN means no Monday Night Football. That wouldn't go over too well in my house.

 

[swampman]

I think the biggest problem is the initial cost of installing a BUD and acquiring a 4DTV and HDD. That's why a lot of people don't jump in to the BUD community plus, for some reason, not many people want a 8+ foot antenna in their backyard (especially city dwellers).

Bingo! I remember a time when you could buy a BUD brand new. And the retailer would set it up for you. But $3000??? Come on. And that was for a cheaper hand crank model. That was the main reason for the demise of cband...not programming. I bought an RCA Directv system back when Directv first started back around '94 I believe. Paid over $1000 for 2 receivers and the dish. Needless to say, small dish companies found ways to drop prices over the years. Heck now you can get 4 room systems FREE! Yet Cband never did find ways to do the same (or never wanted to). Always kept prices high. Even knowing and seeing the impact that small dishes were having on consumers. And they just sat back and watched it happen. Sad really. Because cband had something mini dishes didnt...a first generation picture! C band just was not marketed properly. Nobody cared.

 

[tvropro]

Bingo! I remember a time when you could buy a BUD brand new. And the retailer would set it up for you. But $3000??? Come on. And that was for a cheaper hand crank model. That was the main reason for the demise of cband...not programming. I bought an RCA Directv system back when Directv first started back around '94 I believe. Paid over $1000 for 2 receivers and the dish. Needless to say, small dish companies found ways to drop prices over the years. Heck now you can get 4 room systems FREE! Yet Cband never did find ways to do the same (or never wanted to). Always kept prices high. Even knowing and seeing the impact that small dishes were having on consumers. And they just sat back and watched it happen. Sad really. Because cband had something mini dishes didnt...a first generation picture! C band just was not marketed properly. Nobody cared.

$3000.00 yes, you have to remember there is allot involved in installing and setting up a c band system. This is not the case for the pie plates. Brand new electronics back in the day was more expensive than today because of more components needed to do the job. There was no SMD at the time either. Just look at VCR's when they were new on the block vs now if you can still find one.

The pie plate guys make there money on contracts, hidden fee's and such so they get it out of you one way or another.

 

[swampman]

$3000.00 yes, you have to remember there is allot involved in installing and setting up a c band system. This is not the case for the pie plates. Brand new electronics back in the day was more expensive than today because of more components needed to do the job. There was no SMD at the time either. Just look at VCR's when they were new on the block vs now if you can still find one.

The pie plate guys make there money on contracts, hidden fee's and such so they get it out of you one way or another.

I'm not saying they could have beat out the minidish in the long run. And I realize there was a bigger dish and motor invloved in pricing. But I dont think anyone here can say big dish manufacturers did everything they could to compete effectively. A perfect example is right here with people talking about archaic hardware. And...if I'm wrong about all this, then BUDs didnt have much of a chance to survive anyway. Thats unfortunate.

 

[Corrado]

Even if 4DTV is doomed the BUDS will survive. There's plenty more to having one than 4DTV any day. We shouldn't confuse the two.